2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 226 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Thanks. I don't know why I thought Aliona already had 3A before last season :scratch2: Anyway... Seems like Rozanov's contribution was to help Aliona get the confidence to try the jump. The mental part is half of the battle.

He's appears strong, so probably skaters believe him he won't let them fall when holding the rod. As some skater said, the first thing with ultra-c elements is to eliminate the fear.
 
It would be amazing if he went for a fully backloaded Don Quixote again :laugh2: they can just say "well, we are not going for the bonus, so CLEARLY we are doing this for artistic integrity". What can anyone say then? :laugh:
It is artistic disintegrity. It is anarchy. It is variety. Which is artistic in its own way :biggrin: As a result of it, ISU should make more different type of bonuses to help figure skating be even more diversive, instead to make all programmes look the same.
 
Thanks. I don't know why I thought Aliona already had 3A before last season :scratch2: Anyway... Seems like Rozanov's contribution was to help Aliona get the confidence to try the jump. The mental part is half of the battle.

She did have it before last season. She first landed it in 2018.
Then in 2018-2019 she lost it before season began because of a sudden growth spurt (by her own account), then got injured mid season and was recovering for some time (so probably not the best time to try it again).
I think it’s also because Aliona isn’t the person who wants more technical difficulty “just cause”, she got really motivated once she was falling behind technically and some people decided to be mean to her for no good reason by telling her she should go to junior worlds.

I think it’s a combination of her being fired up & being at her optimal shape at the time. + by her own words, all other coaches were gone when she went for it, so naturally it would be only Rozanov who she could try it with.

I would want Rozanov to be the great 3A or quad master, because it is important to me that Sasha and Aliona remained in good hands. On the other hand, I don’t want to put this much expectation on him, neither do I think it’s fair. He’s young and ambitious, I’m sure he learned a lot during his time with Tutberidze, but I’m still cautious on labeling him “THE coaching prodigy”. Let the ice decide. If he rises to the occasion, no questions will be asked.
 
It is artistic disintegrity. It is anarchy. It is variety. Which is artistic in its own way :biggrin: As a result of it, ISU should make more different type of bonuses to help figure skating be more diversive, instead to make all programmes look the same.

I actually agree on that point in a way. Sure it could have been better, but it was still badass. We shouldn't limit things like that. We do need more freedom there. Technically we can say the skater can still go for it, but I think we see more and more how no one does that if there's no reward. I hope they find a solution for that, easiest is to just fix judging (lol).
 
Thanks. I don't know why I thought Aliona already had 3A before last season :scratch2: Anyway... Seems like Rozanov's contribution was to help Aliona get the confidence to try the jump. The mental part is half of the battle.
She did have triple axel in early 2018. Her first junior season was in 2017-2018 and Worlds - in 2018. Rozanov taught her. This is written in the excerpt.
 
I don't know what a "ready made" skater means now. Hasn't Plushenko tended to receive "ready made" skaters in a stricter sense of the word compared to Eteri? That's not a criticism, a lot of coaches do that. But Eteri hasn't (to my knowledge) obtained skaters who already had a bunch of accolades to their name (except Kanysheva maybe who switched to her after the JGPF Bronze). This is different from Plushenko, Orser, and even Raf if you consider Wagner and Rippon.
Eteri makes skaters she doesn't take made skaters the way orser Raff and Plushy do.
:biggrin: I'm curious if Alexandra Trusova , Aliona Kostornaya go to you and want to skate in your academy wouldn't you let them in? Plushenko opened his Academy 3 years ago but this was his dream from his childhood and didn't put this in his head today morning. He received a great chance with these amazing girls because he has a big name in figure skating.

Eteri also obtains, did not give birth to her skaters. Lambiel also trains some big names now who were "ready-made" :rolleye:. What is the different?
Yes you would let Sasha Veronika and aliona into your academy. I personally appreciate the fact that you g does not take made skaters.
He's appears strong, so probably skaters believe him he won't let them fall when holding the rod. As some skater said, the first thing with ultra-c elements is to eliminate the fear.

True.
 
I actually agree on that point in a way. Sure it could have been better, but it was still badass. We shouldn't limit things like that. We do need more freedom there.

Absolutely. For majority of people it is not really important who is the winner (by some prescribed rules they don't understand one way or another). They just want to enjoy the show. And more different things will make more people to enjoy it :)
 
Rather making fun of you and other people obsessed by his alleged perfection and complete malevolence of his former team mates, because such "black-and-whiteness" is funny. As for Rozanov himself, maybe there were compliments before towards him as a coach, though definitely not as frequent as compliments to his hotness (I mean from those three people who knew him that time, I myself explained here about three times who he even is). He became the edge genius only in the moment he left TT, not before. Before we could read for instance how Kamila is loosing edges (when she was a novice and definitely coached also by Rozanov) and other usual stuff people write about Eteri's team. This double standard reminds me christian writer Lactantius who on one hand mindlessly criticized construction activities of the emperor Diocletian but on the other one praised Constantine the Great for the same when he transfered his residence to Constantinople, which was surrounded by the lagerst construction activities of that time. Of course the problem wasn't the construction activity but that Diocletian was an evil pagan while "the Great" accepted christianity. And that's the same partiality that exists here, incl. the one you personally show.



See above, the narrative it's Rozanov who is responsible for the good technique and the others responsible for the bad one is unfounded from the very beginning, created only by cherrypicking the fragments that suit particular narratives. Which doesn't mean I say he is a bad coach, I've never said anything like that, that's just for the frequent (in fact the only one) counter I've met. It's just that it's not like you imagine it those skaters I like their technique were surely coached exclusively by Rozanov and the others I don't like (and "I'm a fan but" is an invalid argument as was explained many times before) weren't. As for Aliona, she was trained by the whole team and once again it can be hardly said the correction of her Lutz edge (which happened since she joined TT) can be hardly credited exclusively to Rozanov just like you can't seriously claim that "Sofia Akatieva prerotatres/has bad edges" or whatever "because Rozanov didn't work with her" is wrong, becuse he worked with her as well.

P. S. Just like I didn't say Rozanov is a bad coach I also didn't blame anyone of betrayal :)

Are you answering my post exactly? Show me where I or someone else (besides Nadezhda) claimed it. Why is so aggressive? You yourself do everything "black and white" every time, attributing to people here hypertrophied thoughts, about which no one speaks like that. So far, all the anger here comes from you and the other fanatical ET fans. Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred. Well, you didn't come up with this, but you are promoting this aggression here, and you are responsible for it. Good dreams).
 
Whatever people think about Rozanov's choreo, from the perspective of the subject he obviously is still one leg in Khrustalnyi. Ne me quitte pas, 2017-18 season music of Daria Panenkova is now music of Sofia Muravyeava, Samson and Delilah was 2016-17 music of Aliza Zagitova, R&J was a program of Aliona Kostornaia in 2018-19. I'm not comparing them, just saying that they chose the safe way of what's tested already.

Oh, you mean Ne me quitte pas of CAROLINA KOSTNER...

I read Lori Nichol herself choreographed Muravyova’s program online at Angels of Pluschenko Instagram comment session,
 
Are you answering my post exactly? Show me where I or someone else (besides Nadezhda) claimed it. Why is so aggressive? You yourself do everything "black and white" every time, attributing to people here hypertrophied thoughts, about which no one speaks like that. So far, all the anger here comes from you and the other fanatical ET fans. Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred. Well, you didn't come up with this, but you are promoting this aggression here, and you are responsible for it. Good dreams).

Such load of nonsense, honestly. First, you openly confessed your opinion on TT when the "great secession" has started. It's of course your right and to your credit I say you are quite consistent in your position, but do not pretend neutral position then. Second, just look at the recent discussion objectively for once, not like you usually do. Is it not Rozanov, who is credited by practically everything positive and possible done in TT by very particular users (definitely not just the one you mention) without real and solid evidence? He is. Are those claims used in a purposive way? They are. Just the different attitude towards Veronika (excellent technique, taught by "Rozanov the Great" - see later) and Sofia (bad technique, taught wrongly by the others) even if there's no way how to claim Rozanov somehow specifically worked with Veronika more than with Sofia and considering that such difference definitelyž wasn¨t recognized when they all were with TT. It's simplified content of the recent debate and what I'm against but I won't reconstruct the whole debate that just ended, it's still here, esp. when I doubt it would have any impact just like it hasn't in this case where I honestly tried to summarize everything to satisfy your curiosity.

Notice that what I'm against is far from being pointed out by just me, I'm definitely not the only one who objects such claims. Also notice I'm not attacking Rozanov even if you still claim I do. If I'm making a phrase like "Rozanov the Great" it's not aimed at him, it's aimed at the to me absolutely excessive imagination of his role in the mind of his fans (which is truly bordering with noncritical worshipping already, just don't read selectively). See that I'm usually speaking neutrally or even positively about him or his work with the students when it's deserved, I'm simply opposing the opinion that he's some kind of a genius who did all the good work with technique, rotations, jumps, edges etc. (which of course wasn't claimed when he still was with TT, in that time he wasn't definitely recognized by most of those who are celebrating him now). On the other hand I would like to know when it was the last time when you were able to make some positive claim about Eteri and her team (honestly I was able to find only this, which of course can't be denied, but apart from obvious?).

And then you come and say "aggressive" or "fanatical"? On a forum, where even threads with completely different topics so often degenerate into "Eteri team bashing hatefest" (whithout any participation of the evil aggressive Eteri fans you still mention) you call some of the users "fanatical ET fans"? That's not even funny, that is starting to be blatantly impudent.
 
Oh, you mean Ne me quitte pas of CAROLINA KOSTNER...

I read Lori Nichol herself choreographed Muravyova’s program online at Angels of Pluschenko Instagram comment session,

You read many interesting things, often with hardly any credibility. Though I see you missed the point completely. Not surprising.
 
Oh, you mean Ne me quitte pas of CAROLINA KOSTNER...

I read Lori Nichol herself choreographed Muravyova’s program online at Angels of Pluschenko Instagram comment session,

You do know that Daria performed Ne Me Quitte Pas first right?

That being said, these three pieces (Samson and Delilah, NMQP, R&J), are all warhorses, and neither Eteri or Plushenko were the first to use them. Plushenko himself skated to Don Quixote, Carmen, Je Suis Malade, Moulin Rouge, Bolero, and Introduction and Rondo Cappricioso, all of which Eteri has used. Does that mean she was copying him also? :laugh:
 
You do know that Daria performed Ne Me Quitte Pas first right?

That being said, these three pieces (Samson and Delilah, NMQP, R&J), are all warhorses, and neither Eteri or Plushenko were the first to use them. Plushenko himself skated to Don Quixote, Carmen, Je Suis Malade, Moulin Rouge, Bolero, and Introduction and Rondo Cappricioso, all of which Eteri has used. Does that mean she was copying him also? :laugh:

Just to express myself clear as a precaution, it's not that Danill or anybody else has the copyright for such program, it's just that if three of four programs I am aware about till now are a variation of what was used by his former team very recently it is a sign of that he's still under influence IMO. That's said without positive or negative evaluation, just how it appears (in a connection with the comment on which it was a reaction originally).
 
You do know that Daria performed Ne Me Quitte Pas first right?

That being said, these three pieces (Samson and Delilah, NMQP, R&J), are all warhorses, and neither Eteri or Plushenko were the first to use them. Plushenko himself skated to Don Quixote, Carmen, Je Suis Malade, Moulin Rouge, Bolero, and Introduction and Rondo Cappricioso, all of which Eteri has used. Does that mean she was copying him also? :laugh:

Yeah, cause Daria’s performance of it was way more memorable than Carolina’s.

And about what I read - It’s not my fault people write things that I read. I said I read because I don’t want to make it look like it’s an absolute truth, because it’s not.

Comment sessions are not trustworthy sources, but it doesn’t change the fact a girl from Muravyova’s fan club wrote it was Lori Nichol when someone said it was by Rozanov.
 
Yeah, cause Daria’s performance of it was way more memorable than Carolina’s.

And about what I read - It’s not my fault people write things that I read. I said I read because I don’t want to make it look like it’s an absolute truth, because it’s not.

Comment sessions are not trustworthy sources, but it doesn’t change the fact a girl from Muravyova’s fan club wrote it was Lori Nichol when someone said it was by Rozanov.

Yo it is so not okay to say that Panenkova's Ne Me Quitte Pas program is invalid just because Kostner used it and performed it better. She used the music, she performed the choreography, and she made a program. The poster literally was just trying to make a point and you took one little detail and completely twisted it to compare Panenkova (a 15-year old junior when she used that music) and the mature world champion Carolina Kostner, and then dragged the former by implying that her program shouldn't even be considered an interpretation just because she didn't interpret it as good as Kostner. So not okay.
 
The music drama is a bit irrelevant both sides cause these are not particularly original picks to begin with.

Eteri fans now blame Rozanov for copying, but wasn't there a drama around Romeo & Juliet last month?

Samson & Delilah, Romeo & Juliet,... we've seen hundreds of programs on these music even before Eteri started to get good at coaching, so who cares.

Though like i posted previously i do see the same thought process with the amount of transitions, even not choreographed with the music and with positions not being held cause they give you the points regardless. Yes it does look incredibly rushed, unrefined and sometimes pointless but if it worked for all Tutberidze skaters it should work for Plushenko as well.
 
The music drama is a bit irrelevant both sides cause these are not particularly original picks to begin with.

Eteri fans now blame Rozanov for copying, but wasn't there a drama around Romeo & Juliet last month?

Samson & Delilah, Romeo & Juliet,... we've seen hundreds of programs on these music even before Eteri started to get good at coaching, so who cares.

Though like i posted previously i do see the same thought process with the amount of transitions, even not choreographed with the music and with positions not being held cause they give you the points regardless. Yes it does look incredibly rushed, unrefined and sometimes pointless but if it worked for all Tutberidze skaters it should work for Plushenko as well.

No one here said that Rozanov is "copying" Eteri programs...
What Flanker pointed out was that it seems, by what we've seen so far, that Rozanov is still heavily influenced by TT style of choreography seeing that even the choices of music are the same as in recent programs by TT skaters, when Rozanov was still a part of that team.
Basically, he either hasn't found his own style as a choreographer (which is fine) or he likes Daniil's work enough to imitate it.
 
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