2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

Interesting stance on Medvedeva, are you talking about the national team or the Olympic team?

Isn't it the same?

 

[McBibus]

Since we’re on the topic of Aliona’s 3A, I find this vantage point of her 3A entry very stunning:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_y4aEipXlR/?igshid=bsrpbeqxo7li

This is the best angle for the entry.
When it got out I watched it a zillion times

What I really like (not only from this angle) is how the flow is never stopped or even disturbed by that extra difficult element.

 

[McBibus]

I don't know what a "ready made" skater means now. Hasn't Plushenko tended to receive "ready made" skaters in a stricter sense of the word compared to Eteri? That's not a criticism, a lot of coaches do that. But Eteri hasn't (to my knowledge) obtained skaters who already had a bunch of accolades to their name (except Kanysheva maybe who switched to her after the JGPF Bronze). This is different from Plushenko, Orser, and even Raf if you consider Wagner and Rippon.

This is a fact, but for how good a trainer is (and Eteri i surely a supertop) there is no trainer good for all season.
The exception may be coaches who dedicate their life to a particular pupil (even while training others) and they change their training method and their relationship with the athlete growing up with him.
I see this more as matter of personal and unconditional trust in both directions than being about pure and simple training.
The only pupil of Eteri is her academy: that's why she will build a number of top skaters and she will lose a lot them after some years.

I don't think Eteri is so stupid or self centered to not asking herself why skaters who won, and had their best years with her end up leaving.
I'm pretty sure she gave it all and the skaters don't doubt that, but they end up wanting something different especially in the personal relationship with the trainer.
As I said, Eteri is a smart woman, and she probably knows that in the end she will always put the academy (her life work) in front of a single skater and that's the price to pay.

Even not approving her way to react in public (with minors involved) I think she genuinely hurts when it happens as she think that there was more that they could do togheter.

It's not a fault to acquire top skaters: what's important is that you work with them the best you can and more.
It's an individual sport and we should always consider that is the skater who goes on the ice in front of jury and audience and that gives him the right to chose who to train and work with.
Of course, they can take bad decisions but thei're just humans under great stress.

 

[Amei]

Isn't it the same?

When I think national team I'm thinking like the team that gets funding not team necessarily going to the Olympics/Worlds. I think Medvedeva wont be bumped off the national team for funding by next year but I don't see her getting any boost to prop her up for the Olympics team. She's struggled the last 2 years and while yes she did get to Worlds in 2019 it was in a relatively weak Russian ladies field.

 

[Scott512]

Since we’re on the topic of Aliona’s 3A, I find this vantage point of her 3A entry very stunning:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_y4aEipXlR/?igshid=bsrpbeqxo7li

Unbelievable. Best 3A ever. Thanks I needed that.

You don't want to be called fan, that's ok, to me it wasn't that the point anyway.

The music drama from both sides is a weak argument cause the picks are not particularly original from both sides, and even on the choreography it was hard to expect big changes over few months in this season with all the issues that coronavirus brought.

If people gave a pass to Usacheva's not-so-good new free cause "they can always improve it mid-season" the same can apply here.

So in the end not really surprising that Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

Her scores are already getting lower? Has Veronika has lost the legendary EG bounce? It's much too soon to say that. Didn't VZ score huge in her free skate the other day? I would have to say several competitions this year to figure out if VZ will be getting low bald or not because she left TT. We all know if Veronika hits her routines she scores big.

I see someone complaining that "Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred."

Really? I actually see more posts not only criticizing, but trashing Eteri group - their bad techniques, copying/stealing ideas, bad choreography， botox, acting in front of camera, not caring for athletes long term career and health, .... Several are very "creative" and take every opportunity to try to prove that Eteri group is not only "not that good", but actually bad.

And in the mean time you cry out loud, complaining to be accused unfairly? When few people tried to counter-argue, they became fanatic? What a joke!

Come on, don't be a spoiled kid.

Interesting points.

Isn't it the same?

Probably not because you can be are the national team as the number seven or eight skater but obviously you have to be in the top three to be on the Olympic European or world team.

I would like to see more video of Jenna on how she's doing at cska. I will be interesting to see her and so many others at test skates soon.

 

[Skatesocs]

This is a fact, but for how good a trainer is (and Eteri i surely a supertop) there is no trainer good for all season.
The exception may be coaches who dedicate their life to a particular pupil (even while training others) and they change their training method and their relationship with the athlete growing up with him.
I see this more as matter of personal and unconditional trust in both directions than being about pure and simple training.
The only pupil of Eteri is her academy: that's why she will build a number of top skaters and she will lose a lot them after some years.

I don't know what you're responding to here. It was a question about what a "ready made" skater means, seeing that someone said that there isn't anything different between the kind of "ready made" skaters Eteri gets vs Plushenko. I didn't make any further comments about Eteri's academy, or anybody else's.

It's not a fault to acquire top skaters: what's important is that you work with them the best you can and more.
It's an individual sport and we should always consider that is the skater who goes on the ice in front of jury and audience and that gives him the right to chose who to train and work with.
Of course, they can take bad decisions but thei're just humans under great stress.

Especially I don't understand why you said this to me.

 

[zounger]

When I think national team I'm thinking like the team that gets funding not team necessarily going to the Olympics/Worlds. I think Medvedeva wont be bumped off the national team for funding by next year but I don't see her getting any boost to prop her up for the Olympics team. She's struggled the last 2 years and while yes she did get to Worlds in 2019 it was in a relatively weak Russian ladies field.

No I meant the national team that goes to competitions. From this season on the dynamics for the Olympics are starting to build up, my message was in that context. Who gets funding is of zero importance to me, I don't know why people are so obsessed with that anyway. RusFed will start to bet on some skaters more and more and this is the direction I think the bet will go...

 

[Resa]

Interview with Liza Tuk. She is traoning a 4S
https://www.goldenskate.com/2020/09/empress-tuktamysheva-changes-it-up-for-2020-21/

 

[McBibus]

Especially I don't understand why you said this to me.

I wan not replying to you in particular, even by quooting your post to connect to the argument.
Sorry

 

[Skatesocs]

I wan not replying to you in particular, even by quooting your post to connect to the argument.
Sorry

Oh no it's okay, I was just confused why you said that! I wasn't really talking about that so I wondered. No need to apologize.

 

[lopsilceci]

Well, for the youngest days that may be true. The Eteri disciples have become a little more reserved since Sasha's and especially Aljona's departure. #TeamTutberidzeForProgress lighthouse Edwin has immediately withdrawn completely because the facade of the morally superior team Tut (quote: Plushenko is a farmer!) could no longer be maintained, even with the greatest contortions. Frankly, I'm a little surprised at the change in mood here. When I look at the reactions after Sasha's departure. The immediate end of her career was not only feared, but decided. And now many say that Sasha's choice was, maybe, spot on. Well, that's fine with me.

Poor Edwin hasn't even posted in this forum in a long time and you're still angry at him?
You really need to let it go... This is unhealthy.

And everyone else has also moved on from the topics of Sasha and Aliona's departure, so...

 

[Tolstoj]

With major mistake in SP she got almost same PCS than Akatieva who was clean and had a harder tech content. 137 (without the call) is a nice score for what she done in FS.

I love that theory saying that when you leave Team Tut your pcs/scores drop magically.

Most of people doesn't seem to notice that most of skaters who leave have worse performnaces after. But with worse performances apparently they should get the same pcs or even better.

The one who kept high pcs is Medvedeva, despite doing worse. Maybe thanks to these famous politics.

The only one who probably deserved better was Tarakanova. Actually, her free skate score at 2018-2019 nats deserved to be close to Kostornaya's imo. But she wasn't already that gifted when she was with Eteri.

Well let's talk about it cause Akatieva had to me some pretty clear underrotations, the 3A-3t for me the 3a was under and even in the free some of the triple jumps were under, and yet not only they didn't call, but GOE were also on par with Zhilina which is not fair considering Veronika jumps better, not only for the full rotation, but the height, the landing positions, the speed.

As much as they gave 2 points clear on PCS higher on Akatieva (which yes she was better artistically, although i'd argue not that much better), i feel like Zhilina should have a clear edge on the GOE for the jumps.

It's nothing new to be completely frank, i recall stating here even post Junior Nationals that Akatieva's technique has problems, and russian judges aren't calling anything and instead are giving huge GOE for those quad toes often landed forward, kinda like Tursynbaeva's Quad toe at Worlds which was a -1 but because it's a quad, inflation happened.

Overall Akatieva deserved to win clearly because Zhilina's mistake in the short, in the free i think Zhilina was better so at least that segment should have been hers in my opinion.

 

[trkvy]

even in the free some of the triple jumps were under, and yet not only they didn't call

That's a lie. What Akatieva's triple jumps in the free were under?

 

[Tolstoj]

That's a lie. What Akatieva's triple jumps in the free were under?

In the free the 3a clearly, to the point i'd argue that is not even a triple axel but in fact a double axel cause the third rotation is done on the ice.

the 3ltz in the 3 jumps combo 3lutz-eu-3sal is suspicious as well as the final 3lo, not as evident as the 3a in the short which i spotted even before the slowmo, in fact i was very surprised to see all those hugely positive goe immediately given.

Sometimes the 3t in the 3ltz-3t is under, like it was in the free at junior nationals (even there not called), but here i thought it was fine.

EDIT: actually looking back the 3ltz in the 3-1-3 was close but okay.

 

[trkvy]

In the free the 3a clearly.

3A is not a triple, it's triple and a half, and it was marked << by the judges, so it's clearly not the case you talking about.

the 3ltz in the 3 jumps combo 3lutz-eu-3sal is suspicious as well as the final 3lo

Blatant lie. Both of them are fully rotated in the air, everyone can see it frame by frame https://youtu.be/GnLNqrpp4Z8?t=146

 

[Fluture]

the landing positions

Really? I do agree that Zhilina has the better jump technique overall but her landings often look very rough to me, almost painful to the ankle. Akatieva, on the other hand, doesn‘t have Zhilina’s height and speed but she has light landings and great extension, as most Eteri girls.

I‘d agree Zhilina should have won the FS on technical merit and a little more decisively than it would have been without the time violation deduction - but not by that much. Akatieva still has the PCS advantage and rightfully so.

In the free the 3a clearly, to the point i'd argue that is not even a triple axel but in fact a double axel cause the third rotation is done on the ice.
.

Last time I checked; they called the 3A as << in the FS. The only thing I would say was suspicious is the 4T - for me it looked quite underrotated. The rest of the jumps seemed okay to me, didn‘t see a problem with the lutz combo.

 

[Tolstoj]

3A is not triple, it's triple and a half, and it was marked << by the judges, so it's cleraly not the case you talking about.

Blatant lie. Both of them a fully rotated in the air, everyone can see it frame by frame https://youtu.be/GnLNqrpp4Z8?t=146

yeah but there are not even 3 revolutions done so to me you should call that a 2a (with the obvious negative grade of execution for the botched landing) and not even a 3a<<, it looked she was going for a 2a and overcooked it.

Still the 3a in the short is under and she got big positive GOE for that combo, almost as much as Zhilina's 4T in the free.

Look my posts above overall i said Akatieva deserved to win, but there were some mistakes from the judges or call it generous technical panel.

Last time I checked; they called the 3A as << in the FS. The only thing I would say was suspicious is the 4T - for me it looked quite underrotated. The rest of the jumps seemed okay to me, didn‘t see a problem with the lutz combo.

Oh yeah the poster asked me about the triples specifically so i didn't mention the quad toe at all.

 

[Skatesocs]

yeah but there are not even 3 revolutions done so to me you should call that a 2a (with the obvious negative grade of execution for the botched landing) and not even a 3a<<.

How many rotations do you think are in a barely rotated 3A?

 

[Fried]

Poor Edwin hasn't even posted in this forum in a long time and you're still angry at him?
You really need to let it go... This is unhealthy.

Easier said than done. These increasingly crazy hashtags with TeamTutberidzeForWhatever have literally burned in. But it's not unhealthy, because I found it very amusing how suddenly it ended. And laughing is healthy!

And everyone else has also moved on from the topics of Sasha and Aliona's departure, so...

Wait. A messed up skate on the weekend and everything flares up again.

 

[flanker]

Sofia's blade touching the ice while landing 4T:
https://i.postimg.cc/76zb4ZWP/Sofia-4-T-landing.jpg
Less than quarter of the rotation, no UR. I like how those people, even convicted of being untrue, don't even have the decency to admit "OK I was wrong, Zhilina's sores aren't dropping" and immediately start to push another lie (let's call it by true name) against those they don't favour. Of course, it's not ridiculous at all and I am full of respect towards them.