2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

OK, logically. As I've written above, in a post I modified so I don't know whether you noticed it. I can't speak for each of 2000 people (or how many there should have been in the audience) and of course I can't exclude sole or isolated acts of hostility against former Eteri skaters. But the fact is that on any video from the event I saw, both official or fan, I didn't see anything like that, so I have strong doubts that if there was anything like that, it was more than precisely rare, isolated act, not a mass action. And unfortunately not that rare and going cross the sympathies, see examples given by nussnacker.

Still, yes, I am able to admit there are people who hate former Eteri skaters. Are you, for instance, able to admit there are people who hate current Eteri skaters?

Oh there are people and a lot of them who hate current Eteri skaters. If that wasn't happening the other wouldn't be happening either.

Figure skating fans are supposed to be polite and decent and if there are people calling out names or cat calling former EG skaters they are an embarrassment to figure skating fans like flanker and myself. They are off course and a great minority of good figure skating fans in Russia. But these athletes are incredible and they need no cat calls or insults directed at them no matter who they are or who they Skate for.

 

[klena]

Send Liza my apologies.

It was Liza Khudaiberdyeva. She is known to be on good terms with Yelena Rodina.

 

[flanker]

It was Liza Khudaiberdyeva. She is known to be on good terms with Yelena Rodina.

That - also explains a lot

(I bet this Liza has problems with Diana, because Diana defeated her at junior nationals and went to the junior worlds instead.)

 

[McBibus]

Another topic please! I have a question: the Russian ladies always wear gloves with their costumes. I know it’s to prevent hand injuries because they’re always grabbing their blades while contorting their bodies; it’s dangerous. But Shcherbakova’s gloves looked so sheer and thin, so how were those protecting her hands?

Also is not uncommon to have small silicon protections on the point that usually get in contact with the blades inside the gloves

 

[Mathman]

NOW you are playing the victim card for Anna, when Kostornaya and Trusova got bashed the entire summer for leaving Eteri, or Medvedeva going to a Canadian coach was seen as betrayal...

To me, this is the main point. "Medvedeva is a traitor to Russia." "Trusova and her money-grubbing parents are the root of all evil."

That is not in the same category as, "Anna's Lutz edge is questionable" or "Kamila needs to emote better."

 

[plushyfan]

To me, this is the main point. "Medvedeva is a traitor to Russia." "Trusova and her money-grubbing parents are the root of all evil."

That is not in the same category as, "Anna's Lutz edge is questionable" or "Kamila needs to emote better."

Thank you. This is the essence. :agree:

 

[kwanatic]

OK. This is why I didn't use to argue in this case.

Lol, no worries. I'll argue it for you.

That was a clear example of a pre-rotated jump so you can't really argue against it. But, as I mentioned, there are so many skaters who have a similar technique now that even though it should be penalized, it's almost not worth it at this point which is why I suspect the ISU is a bit reluctant to do so. It would be how it was back in 2007/2008 when judges started calling skaters on incorrect edges for lutzes and flips. Suddenly a large majority of skaters in the field started getting dinged especially for the women as so few had a decent lutz in their arsenal--and many who did had a lip instead of a flip so they ended up getting dinged on that.

That's how I'd imagine it would be if they started calling pre-rotations. However, what it would do is what it did for skaters back then--encourage them to attempt to correct the problem.

We'll have to see. For now it just is what it is.

 

[McBibus]

But i have also complains cause the packaging doesn't really reflect the talent these skaters have: it's very much recycling the same moves, the same programs sometimes too, similar music, across all skaters despite their differences in skating and personality. To me that's because their group is always very large, so it's hard to spend that much time and dedication for one single skater when you have to look at the others also and have the programs ready before anyone else cause they have to train them more.

You synthetize what I like and don't like too much of Eteri here.
She wants to win and she takes the shortest route from her to victory.
You can't blame her for that. I admire her for that.
But her approach is both tremendously efficient and short sighted.

At the current time, her approach is the most efficient considering the age of the last 5 years international winners in the women.
If you take a longer route to winning you may arrive at top as a more well rounded skater, with an unique style and signature moves (something that anybody will recognize immediatly as "You"/"Yours") but you may arrive too late and miss the peak.

I have great hope in Sasha, that she is such a terrific athlete that she could keep her quads well into her 20s.
If so we will have more and more skaters in the near future who will learn quads as lilttle girls and will continue to delive it as youg women and the road to victory will probably require a different and more complex approach.
As in many other sport, to be a superstart you would need to reach the top with a momentum you could carry for years.

 

[Amei]

To me, this is the main point. "Medvedeva is a traitor to Russia." "Trusova and her money-grubbing parents are the root of all evil."

That is not in the same category as, "Anna's Lutz edge is questionable" or "Kamila needs to emote better."

Based on things I've seen most of the top skaters to some level have a segment of "anti-fans" that seem to have a strange obsession with how that skater is terrible in every aspect of existence. My course of action is to put that person on ignore/block, I only wish that when you put someone on block that it would also hide their posts when someone else quotes them.

 

[lesnar001]

Based on things I've seen most of the top skaters to some level have a segment of "anti-fans" that seem to have a strange obsession with how that skater is terrible in every aspect of existence. My course of action is to put that person on ignore/block, I only wish that when you put someone on block that it would also hide their posts when someone else quotes them.

Furthermore, I also wish that their name was hidden altogether. Because every once in a while I am drawn to view their post, and then I am sorry I did it. I honestly don't even want to see that they posted something.

 

[flanker]

Well let me explain you the difference between an opinion and what you call "verbal slandering"

For instance saying a skater has bad programs is not "verbal slandering" if you argument WHY you think these programs are bad. Then you can agree or disagree of course.

On the other hand i see mostly hating on skaters only because they left Tutberidze or they criticized her: you see it from the dislikes, from media channels pro Eteri,... etc. I get it the coach is seen as the hero of the nation, but respect the athletes!, again worth remembering that they are all part of the same team.

It's quite funny that NOW you are playing the victim card for Anna, when Kostornaya and Trusova got bashed the entire summer for leaving Eteri, or Medvedeva going to a Canadian coach was seen as betrayal, it'd be funny to read something from you on that instead. Again the double standards.



I did say however that could be a result of unfinished work (which is understandable at this stage), don't quote the post if you have to twist it conveniently.

With Valieva - Trusova there is a specific reason why i sound more positive for one than the other.

- Valieva skates better than Trusova, but i don't see any improvement from last season, she is pretty much the same skater with arguargbly a worse free this season (as of now!).

- Trusova was always considered a jumper first, she comes from really bad programs in my opinion (with rushed movements, sloppy crossovers,...) that perhaps made her look even worse than who she is.

But what i saw here from her, is some serious work on skating skills, on holding more these positions, a new lyrical soft style (something she has never really done before) and facial expression will come too if they continue to work in this direction. This was only the first step but a positive one at the very least.

All these girls have time to develop, but if you never see an attempt to improve, then you'll never see those improvements.

Would you say that Zagitova's Don Quixote at the Olympics looked better than the same free from Russian Nationals 2017? To me it looked the exact same.



Go back and read my post here cause i was the first to point out that Rozanov's programs for Zhilina still look like Eteri programs.

Well, hating of Eteri's skaters definitely didn't start now, "the whole summer"? C'mon. If you mention Medvedeva, it was her who was hated for years when she was with Eteri, some of the people who wrote nasty comments about her before turned the coat in may 2018 and suddenly found themselves being her supporters. And transfered their hate to Alina. If you say A, there were people who hated Medvedeva for leaving, you should also add B, there were people hating Alina for staying. That's what's so wrong on your posts here and what I am against, the one-sided version of reality where are Eteri fans haters and fans of the others are nice and objective people (never saw that you would admit even the smallest exception on both sides). You are like in a tunnel where you see only your version with absolutely refusing to admit what zounger described very briefly and precisely:

"And there are anti-Eteri channels where the ratio is the opposite and what? I found it very unproductive to make comments here about someones comment that we found on YouTube, blog etc. Not even about the article or the video but about some random users comment who might be a bot, stupid lunatic and I don't know what else."

Funny thing is that when in the past I mentioned here the existence of the hatred towards Eteri skaters, I was refused that "that's outside GS, do not bring it here." When it's about former skaters, it is OK

But that's what was discussed here for years, Alina vs. Evgenia, Eteri vs. Brian, with injustice on both sides, defintiely not Eteri and Alina fans wrong, the others good. I think that I personally, being Alina and Eteri fan, made quite positive and supportive comments about Zhenya, at least when it came to her skating and indomitable will. FIrst negative voices about e.g. Sasha definitely didn't start in the moment she left Eteri, there were many before, but just like with Evgenia, some of those who criticized her before or didn't pay any attention about her, suddenly became her devoted fans. Once again, that's not an inch better that losing interest about her or starting to hate her when she left. I see your point wrong if you suggest otherwise in this or when you make a comparison like "Kostornaya and Trusova are hated for the whole summer", as if Anna, Kamila or any other Eteri skater wasn't ever hated before. That's completely wrong depiction of reality and unability to admit the hate towards Anna, but not just her, most Eteri skaters (with Aliona being probably the only exception, as far as I am aware) are hated for a long time and the hostility is very strong, visible and with an impact. If you refuse to admit that, than you are biased and any conversation has no sense.

As for the critique of technique and programs. Critique is of course normal and useful thing, discussing imperfections is what should be done here, but in a normal way. The frequency with which some here (incl. you) rush to tear every tiny piece of skate of particular skaters apart, while never seeing or pointing imperfections with the other skaters, is bias, what else could be said about that? The same with programs, many of those who criticize programs of Eteri skaters would not recognize if those programs were switched. Honestly programs done by Rozanov truly don't differ any significant way (that's not saying they are bad, but precisely this, they are done very similar way) and I'm not the only one who points that out. Some examples I gave before, now Aliona's new SP is basically her Twilight program, slower more "melodic" (if that can be said about Billie's music) first part than rhytmic second one with stsq as the main highlight (and that was pointed out independently by more people several times here already). Nothing wrong about it, but nothing new or significant, why this program should be celebrrated and others defamed unless from the position of sympathy. The same applies to the technique, if only particular skaters are repeatedly called for imperfections (at their very first appearance in the season with limited training) while others don't (yes, Aliona had imperfections in her SP, which is understandable and I would not even mention that, but it doesn't seem to be understandable somehow for Eteri's skaters as much in the mind of particular people).

BTW, the double standard is not shown only in how people like you talk about skaters direcly, sometimes it agains is shown with the attitude towards the team:
"Skater XY (coached by Eteri) is injured but skated." - "How Eteri could left her skate with injury?"
"Skater AB (not coached by Eteri) skated with injury." - "The skater is so brave."
Exactly this case happened here several times.

As for Alina's DQ, don't fully understand what is your point, but at nationals Alina got 155.74, at the olympics 156.65, so what.

 

[macy]

Furthermore, I also wish that their name was hidden altogether. Because every once in a while I am drawn to view their post, and then I am sorry I did it. I honestly don't even want to see that they posted something.

same. it kind of beats the purpose of having someone on ignore. i wish it were similar to blocking on social media, where you see nothing at all. i hope they can change this at some point.

 

[eliana]

Based on things I've seen most of the top skaters to some level have a segment of "anti-fans" that seem to have a strange obsession with how that skater is terrible in every aspect of existence. My course of action is to put that person on ignore/block, I only wish that when you put someone on block that it would also hide their posts when someone else quotes them.

Especially when there are so many! Each of them has a large fan base that opposes the others. To which the coaches' fans also overlap ... A real Tower of Babel

 

[zounger]

To me, this is the main point. "Medvedeva is a traitor to Russia." "Trusova and her money-grubbing parents are the root of all evil."

That is not in the same category as, "Anna's Lutz edge is questionable" or "Kamila needs to emote better."

It is not but this are comments on sports.ru from unknown people. FSO (Russian main figure skating forum) for example is highly anti Eteri, Medvedeva pro, Trusova pro, etc.

From the Russian figure skating known people, officials former skaters, etc. figure skating journalists there is no such tendency. Actually there is one tendency from them regarding a known Russian skater but don't want to start.

 

[Tolstoj]

You synthetize what I like and don't like too much of Eteri here.
She wants to win and she takes the shortest route from her to victory.
You can't blame her for that. I admire her for that.
But her approach is both tremendously efficient and short sighted.

At the current time, her approach is the most efficient considering the age of the last 5 years international winners in the women.
If you take a longer route to winning you may arrive at top as a more well rounded skater, with an unique style and signature moves (something that anybody will recognize immediatly as "You"/"Yours") but you may arrive too late and miss the peak.

I have great hope in Sasha, that she is such a terrific athlete that she could keep her quads well into her 20s.
If so we will have more and more skaters in the near future who will learn quads as lilttle girls and will continue to delive it as youg women and the road to victory will probably require a different and more complex approach.
As in many other sport, to be a superstart you would need to reach the top with a momentum you could carry for years.

Exactly, while i don't love this approach, and i'd like to see top level programs for the champions, results tell her there is no reason to change.

What i'd do personally is to hire an second/third choreographer, because bringing a different point of view can help a lot, even like some occasional work with Zhulin or Averbukh as they did in the past, just to mix things up and not give very similar look to all their skaters, cause that makes them look all the same.

That's the Eteri product: you can almost write a template of the typical packaging from that group, and unfortunately to me that's part of the reason why there is too much talk around the coach and not enough around the skaters, when they all look very similar and go for short careers, a casual fan may not even have the time to remember their names.

Ideally the choreographer should have enough range to make them look very different, like Tom Dickson programs for Kihira and Miyahara were very different and yet they both came from the same group.

For Trusova my hope is that they don't end up adding too much with the jumps as it happened last season with the quad flip, then the 3a, because realistically with a clean 3 quads free program and an improved artistry, Sasha can beat anyone.

 

[silveruskate]

In Russia things are the way things are, and since these are all Russian skaters I guess that matters the most? You can just look at the likes and dislikes on videos. Doesn't mean it's all the fans or even most of them but no point trying to deny it. Sasha had a great SP but look.....3.6k likes 600 dislikes. The like/dislikes for Aliona's programs have even been REMOVED and I wonder why? Hmmm.

With Aliona I don't think she deserves hate, but even Sasha who left amicably isn't unscathed.

 

[Decoder]

What i'd do personally is to hire an second/third choreographer, because bringing a different point of view can help a lot, even like some occasional work with Zhulin or Averbukh as they did in the past, just to mix things up and not give very similar look to all their skaters, cause that makes them look all the same.

That's the Eteri product: you can almost write a template of the typical packaging from that group, and unfortunately to me that's part of the reason why there is too much talk around the coach and not enough around the skaters, when they all look very similar and go for short careers, a casual fan may not even have the time to remember their names.

.

Did last season's Anna, Sasha, Alena, and Kamila look all the same?

 

[flanker]

To me, this is the main point. "Medvedeva is a traitor to Russia." "Trusova and her money-grubbing parents are the root of all evil."

That is not in the same category as, "Anna's Lutz edge is questionable" or "Kamila needs to emote better."

Though that's definitely not the only position and objection towards skaters. We've seen also comments attacking Alina for her ethnic background which somehow makes her "obedient to Eteri" or that she stole 8 mln. rubles (funnily from a person who rants here about hating). Some people who hated e.g. Evgenia's technique suddenly didn't see anything or, when necessary, just assigned it to "falling for old habits." Anna was directly defamed for her character.

As for "Kamila needs to emote better", we could agree on that, but it's hard when particualr objections are only criticized with her or another Eteri skater and never pointed with other skaters with completely the same problem, which makes such comments not very credible.

So it's very mesleading to post as if the critique towards Eteri skaters was only about objective problems with techniqque (which is BTW very exaggerated often), while the critique towards the ex-skaters was only personal.

 

[eliana]

I don't know if it's okay to put it here, but I'm at risk

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/russiateam/2829331.html :luv17: You need use de google translate

 

[flanker]

Did last season's Anna, Sasha, Alena, and Kamila look all the same?

Of course they didn't, they all had different styles. Anna and Kamila are slightly similar skaters, but e.g. Maiia's short program is unique, Sofia's both programs are recognizible even frm the first rendition at moscow cup etc.