2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

Then leave him alone to prove his abilities!
What is the problem?

I agree he should be allowed to prove his ability. But people have every right to voice their concerns and talk about him even if they don't "know who he is". That poster seems well familiar with him being a big name skater, anyway.

 

[eliana]

I agree he should be allowed to prove his ability. But people have every right to voice their concerns and talk about him even if they don't "know who he is". That poster seems well familiar with him being a big name skater, anyway.

I disagree! I think you need to know the minimum necessary to express your opinion against him so clearly.

 

[Skatesocs]

I disagree! I think you need to know the minimum necessary to express your opinion against him so clearly.

The minimum necessary about any discussion about Plushenko's coaching literally *is* him not having proven his abilities as a coach - everyone on this forum is familiar with that. You shouldn't have a problem there, then.

 

[eliana]

The minimum necessary about any discussion about Plushenko's coaching literally *is* him not having proven his abilities as a coach - everyone on this forum is familiar with that. You shouldn't have a problem there, then.

Know something? My head hurts!
I won't say anything more. I wish him success at least half as much as he had as an athlete

 

[yume]

I must say I don't really understand all this anti-Plushenko narrative here. I am not his fan and I am not his anti-fan but he's just a household name for this sport. In countries where FS is way less popular than in Russia or Japan (which means most of the world), Zagitova, Medvedeva, Trusova or Kostornaya, not to mention Shcherbakova or Valiyeva, no matter how we do like them, they mean nothing to the general public. Outside of FS fandom, nobody knows who they are. Plushenko, on the other hand, has been around long enough and made himself recognizable enough to have everyone know he was a great skater. It is just a name that rings a bell even if you are not into this sport at all. As for now, still just a different league. Yes, of course, he is young as a coach but it is obvious that his starting point is going to be very different from someone generally unknown and starting from a scratch, like Eteri was. It is not necessarily his money that draws attention and trainees to him but his fame. His name. His life achievements. That's enough. Just like Sasha said, you might suspect he knows a thing or two about jumping quads, for example. If he's able to provide his athletes with better training coditions than other clubs, well, good for him and good for them. I just don't get this negativity. And please do not try to explain it to me. I know the narrative, I just don't get it. If you had a chance to learn guitar playing from Eric Clapton or from a very accomplished guitar teacher at a top musical school, wouldn't you be at least tempted to give Eric a try? Even if he's not that known as a teacher?

Maybe because he gets too much too soon? Or that it's weird that he's suddenly getting all those stars while he created 0 stars so far (yeah Rozanov is there but still). Most of other coaches had to create successful skaters (make skaters win medals in big competitions) to see other stars go to them.
It appears that he's buying a reputation rather than building one.

 

[Alex65]

I must say I don't really understand all this anti-Plushenko narrative here. I am not his fan and I am not his anti-fan but he's just a household name for this sport. In countries where FS is way less popular than in Russia or Japan (which means most of the world), Zagitova, Medvedeva, Trusova or Kostornaya, not to mention Shcherbakova or Valiyeva, no matter how we do like them, they mean nothing to the general public. Outside of FS fandom, nobody knows who they are. Plushenko, on the other hand, has been around long enough and made himself recognizable enough to have everyone know he was a great skater. It is just a name that rings a bell even if you are not into this sport at all. As for now, still just a different league. Yes, of course, he is young as a coach but it is obvious that his starting point is going to be very different from someone generally unknown and starting from a scratch, like Eteri was. It is not necessarily his money that draws attention and trainees to him but his fame. His name. His life achievements. That's enough. Just like Sasha said, you might suspect he knows a thing or two about jumping quads, for example. If he's able to provide his athletes with better training coditions than other clubs, well, good for him and good for them. I just don't get this negativity. And please do not try to explain it to me. I know the narrative, I just don't get it. If you had a chance to learn guitar playing from Eric Clapton or from a very accomplished guitar teacher at a top musical school, wouldn't you be at least tempted to give Eric a try? Even if he's not that known as a teacher?

I will not explain anything to you I will just express myself. All this anti Plushenko here is the echo of the fight against him from Russia.
Coach Pyushchenko is a new player on the Russian FS scene. Which has long been divided and at the highest level is mainly monopolized by the Tutberidze team. Old players do not want to let the new and aggressive coach into the cash flow and fame that they used to consider "their" Therefore, all the "black PR" tools are used. The Russian Internet is filled with "articles" about this. It should come as no surprise that the results of this propaganda are slowly penetrating the minds of some FS fans on this site as well. It is sad that people lose their ability to think independently and evaluate information, and posters with opinions that differ from those imposed by propaganda become "usual" suspects.

 

[ali0125]

You can argue that Plushenko is not a good coach yet, but look at his age. Where Eteri was when she was at his age

Facts
Plushenko is one of the greatest in this sports - OGG*1 OGS*1 OGTG*1 Worlds*3or4.
Eteri is one of the best coaches in say recent 6 years but in a larger timeframe, she is not a match to so many.

Narratives won't change the facts lol.

 

[Skatesocs]

Narratives won't change the facts lol.

Can you point out who disagrees with this statement?

 

[Fried]

My God, this eternal "he is", "he is not" discussion is dull. It's worse than kindergarten. This has been going on for months with ever the same pros and cons. At some point you have to get bored, not?

 

[Skatesocs]

My God, this eternal "he is", "he is not" discussion is dull. It's worse than kindergarten. This has been going on for months with ever the same pros and cons. At some point you have to get bored, not?

I absolutely agree it's gone on for too long, but I do have questions. It would be a lie if I said I remember most things from this debate, since I don't read most of it, but just in the past few hours we have had:
1. "You have no right to speak if you don't know Plushy" - why?
2. "It is propaganda from Eteri fans" - in which manner is saying Plushy has little coaching experience propaganda?
3. "Narratives won't change fact" - who forged a narrative to change facts, when there is a multi-faceted nature to these facts that each side tends to ignore?
4. "It is dull" - then why participate?

It's a circular debate that functions on 1. People will want to go to Plushy because of his skating reputation, but 2. Not his coaching experience. Why is this thread so obsessed with it? And why is it such a problem to question the Plushenko side of the debate here? I already said last time maybe people who don't want it to continue should drop it, so why am I seeing it being brought up again? And why is one side currently trying to pretend it's some sort of disrespectful propaganda? And that it is a dull debate that should be dropped, as if people shouldn't resist them being called "propagandists"?

I have little to no interest in whether Plushenko is a "liar" or not btw. I can see why someone would get defensive over that, but what's the problem with the coaching discussion?

 

[flanker]

I will not explain anything to you I will just express myself. All this anti Plushenko here is the echo of the fight against him from Russia.
Coach Pyushchenko is a new player on the Russian FS scene. Which has long been divided and at the highest level is mainly monopolized by the Tutberidze team. Old players do not want to let the new and aggressive coach into the cash flow and fame that they used to consider "their" Therefore, all the "black PR" tools are used. The Russian Internet is filled with "articles" about this. It should come as no surprise that the results of this propaganda are slowly penetrating the minds of some FS fans on this site as well. It is sad that people lose their ability to think independently and evaluate information, and posters with opinions that differ from those imposed by propaganda become "usual" suspects.

How this "monopolized by Eteri" narrative is not just (anti) black PR? Does there exist some rule or mechanism that forces skaters to go directly to Eteri? No, there doesn't. If many skaters aspire to be accepted to Khrustalny it is not caused by a rule securing the team a monopoly, it is caused by the undeniable success of her team. Nobody ever explained how did her so called "monopoly" appear, why her? There are only a few things I can agree with Plushenko apologets but they are right in one thing, she was nobody not so long before. So, how from a coach who had to beg for an ice time, she rose to a head of the most respected figure skating team of the current time (at least in Russia)? Because:
a) because she had money, name, favouritism of the big guns and her partner is from TV;
b) somebody just randomly pointed at her name and said "let's give this no name coach a monopoly";
c) because Eteri worked hard and her skaters achieved unusual amount of success, literally crushing every competition currently, moved the ladies skating far forward.

Anybody is welcomed if he goes through the way c), which to me is what Davydov is currently trying to do and why I doubt anyone would object if he would gain the same name as Eteri as a coach. Going through the a) or b), however, is not what gains respect from me.

 

[Alex65]

How this "monopolized by Eteri" narrative is not just (anti) black PR? Does there exist some rule or mechanism that forces skaters to go directly to Eteri? No, there doesn't. If many skaters aspire to be accepted to Khrustalny it is not caused by a rule securing the team a monopoly, it is caused by the undeniable success of her team. Nobody ever explained how did her so called "monopoly" appear, why her? There are only a few things I can agree with Plushenko apologets but they are right in one thing, she was nobody not so long before. So, how from a coach who had to beg for an ice time, she rose to a head of the most respected figure skating team of the current time (at least in Russia)? Because:
a) because she had money, name, favouritism of the big guns and her partner is from TV;
b) somebody just randomly pointed at her name and said "let's give this no name coach a monopoly";
c) because Eteri worked hard and her skaters achieved unusual amount of success, literally crushing every competition currently, moved the ladies skating far forward.

Anybody is welcomed if he goes through the way c), which to me is what Davydov is currently trying to do and why I doubt anyone would object if he would gain the same name as Eteri as a coach. Going through the a) or b), however, is not what gains respect from me.

t's just a fact. Where is something wrong in this? Why are you looking for an excuse for this fact. After all, no one argues and there is something wrong with that.

 

[nussnacker]

From a skater’s perspective, is it something normal/to be expected, when you take longer time (0.5 year to a year) to get the harder jumps back after a continuous break (such as COVID) or is it a sign that you might not get them back at all?

From the examples we’ve seen so far, there’s mixed evidence, i.e. Anna didn’t restore her 4T she once had post her injury break, although she restored both 4Lz and 4F after the COVID break. Alysa also doesn’t have her big ticket jumps just yet, possibly due to both growth and implications of the long break.
Sofia seemed to restore her 3A and 4T only when they were already back from Novogorsk to Crystal rink, meaning it took some time to get those jumps back. Sofia Samodelkina seemed to have 0 issue due to the break, her 3A was back and she has time to learn 4S in addition.

I get that there are a lot of factors involved, but is it realistic to expect that the jump a skater once had would be restored sooner or later? Or is it more likely that those jumps might be gone for good?

 

[kallirroe]

Dear administrators(?) of GS, shouldnt this was between Eteri and Plushenko be in a different thread and not spoil the Russian Ladies Thread ( which actually has nothing to do ). Jesus, these girls spend their whole lifes and the publicity seems to be between their coaches rather than them. These girls need to be stars of their own. Of course you pay debt to your coaches, but it seems like FS has turned in Russia into a teams sport or clubs sport , a competition between coaches and not skaters themselves. I am getting disgusted... really.... let this be a seperate thread, so we can actually praise the athletes in this....

 

[Alex65]

I absolutely agree it's gone on for too long, but I do have questions. It would be a lie if I said I remember most things from this debate, since I don't read most of it, but just in the past few hours we have had:
1. "You have no right to speak if you don't know Plushy" - why?
2. "It is propaganda from Eteri fans" - in which manner is saying Plushy has little coaching experience propaganda?
3. "Narratives won't change fact" - who forged a narrative to change facts, when there is a multi-faceted nature to these facts the each side tends to ignore?
4. "It is dull" - then why participate?

It's a circular debate that functions on 1. People will want to go to Plushy because of his skating reputation, but 2. Not his coaching experience. Why is this thread so obsessed with it? And why is it such a problem to question the Plushenko side of the debate here? I already said last time maybe people who don't want it to continue should drop it, so why am I seeing it being brought up again? And why is one side currently trying to pretend it's some sort of disrespectful propaganda? And that it is a dull debate that should be dropped, as if people shouldn't resist them being called "propagandists"?

I have little to no interest in whether Plushenko is a "liar" or not btw. I can see why someone would get defensive over that, but what's the problem with the coaching discussion?

Is there a problem with that? There is simply no subject for discussion at the moment. There are no competitions and no results. What problems with coaching can we talk about? Athletes' complaints? There are none at all. Fan complaints? And here we start all over again in the tenth round.

 

[Skatesocs]

Is there a problem with that? There is simply no subject for discussion at the moment. There are no competitions and no results. What problems with coaching can we talk about? Athletes' complaints? There are none at all. Fan complaints? And here we start all over again in the tenth round.

Then why don't the lot of you stop it, if there is nothing to discuss? His coaching is the thing that matters in this thread, not some defense of his honour. It's only going on in circles.

I'd at least see the value in speculating how good of a coach Plushenko really is, instead of what usually goes on. He did a good job with Trusova at the test skates. Kostornaia on the other hand, not so much, but she went there much later. One more thing the can be debated is if him taking in Kihira would change anything, since that's 3/4 of the top 4 at GPF19 he'll have with him.

 

[flanker]

t's just a fact. Where is something wrong in this? Why are you looking for an excuse for this fact. After all, no one argues and there is something wrong with that.

Fact is you believe in that and you believe passionately.

 

[Magill]

Anyway, the argument that just because he was a great skater, he automatically will be a great coach has no real basis.

I never used that argument so please don't make it look like I did. Thank you!
I don't think anyone is claiming it here anyway.

 

[flanker]

I never used that argument so please don't make it look like I did. Thank you!
I don't think anyone is claiming it here anyway.

Your words:

It is just a name that rings a bell even if you are not into this sport at all. As for now, still just a different league. Yes, of course, he is young as a coach but it is obvious that his starting point is going to be very different from someone generally unknown and starting from a scratch, like Eteri was. It is not necessarily his money that draws attention and trainees to him but his fame. His name. His life achievements. That's enough. Just like Sasha said, you might suspect he knows a thing or two about jumping quads, for example.

speak different.

 

[Alex65]

Your words:


speak different.

they don't speak