Will the 2010 U.S. ladies Olympic team be...

[Tonichelle]

kind of funny, eh? just jumping into the thread here a few pages later, and we're talking about someone who was a factor 12 years ago? Isn't this supposed to be a PREDICTION thread?

it's the debate that will not die... I'll be listening to my great grandchildren bicker over who should have one that night

 

[Tinymavy15]

I wonder what Hersh's problem was. That Tara was faster doesn't mean that Michelle was extremely slow. Michelle skated extremely well in Nagano, and it is a tribute to Tara that she was able to defeat her. In fact, Tara is the only skater since '95 to defeat a Michelle who was clean in all portions of the event

tara had faster music than michelle.

 

[bekalc]

I wonder what Hersh's problem was. That Tara was faster doesn't mean that Michelle was extremely slow. Michelle skated extremely well in Nagano, and it is a tribute to Tara that she was able to defeat her. In fact, Tara is the only skater since '95 to defeat a Michelle who was clean in all portions of the event

I don't think that Phil Hersh was saying that Michelle didn't skate well. Most people say Michelle skated extremely well. Robin Cousins put's it this way: MIchelle set the bar really high, and Tara Jumped over it.

But the way people describe the difference is this. Michelle well excellent and clean was tenative. Her skating was slower than usual, her performance was not as electrifiying as it was at Nationals, Michelle didn't "fly."

Tara, on the other hand, was electrifiying. She skated with joy and complete abandonment. She flew across the ice, while landing more difficult elements. And you know what Tara had good extension, she had nice line. Artistically, Tara had improved quite a bit in a year's time. And Tara was doing a much more difficult program. Plus, the complete joy that Tara had, she just sold her programs. (If you look at Michelle and Tara's faces while they were performing, you can see all of this)

Hersh and Cousins both said that the difference between Tara and Michelle was visibly and audibly clear to the audience; however, when watching it on television, this didn't necessarily translate well..

 

[blue dog]

I don't think that Phil Hersh was saying that Michelle didn't skate well. Most people say Michelle skated extremely well. Robin Cousins put's it this way: MIchelle set the bar really high, and Tara Jumped over it.

But the way people describe the difference is this. Michelle well excellent and clean was tenative. Her skating was slower than usual, her performance was not as electrifiying as it was at Nationals, Michelle didn't "fly."

Tara, on the other hand, was electrifiying. She skated with joy and complete abandonment. She flew across the ice, while landing more difficult elements. And you know what Tara had good extension, she had nice line. Artistically, Tara had improved quite a bit in a year's time. And Tara was doing a much more difficult program. Plus, the complete joy that Tara had, she just sold her programs. (If you look at Michelle and Tara's faces while they were performing, you can see all of this)

Hersh and Cousins both said that the difference between Tara and Michelle was visibly and audibly clear to the audience; however, when watching it on television, this didn't necessarily translate well..

Even on TV, you could see the difference, in my opinion (and I'm a Kwan fan!).

Both skaters had one SLOW, iffy jump (Kwan had the flip, and Tara had the last triple salchow), but Tara did have the night of her life. IMHO, no Olympic performance has matched that before or since (well, I'd put Denise Biellmann's winning LP that was only enough to pull her into 4th as of similar quality in sheer joie de vivre--I didn't like Tara much back in the day, but to this day, if I'm having a horrid day, I'll go on youtube, and find that LP...)

 

[kandidy]

I prefer Tara than Kwan. If she stays in skateing circle longer, she will be legend.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

for me, it was Tara's one and ONLY night of a good performance. Tara deserved the nod to gold but had Michelle skated after her, she would have gritted her teeth and blocked out the body pain, and the result would have been different.

However, neither of them will be on the US Team for 2010. That will be Angela Maxwell.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

However, neither of them will be on the US Team for 2010.

Exactamundo...so why are we still talking about them?

 

[bekalc]

for me, it was Tara's one and ONLY night of a good performance. Tara deserved the nod to gold but had Michelle skated after her, she would have gritted her teeth and blocked out the body pain, and the result would have been different.

However, neither of them will be on the US Team for 2010. That will be Angela Maxwell.

Joe

Maybe Kwan would have done this but maybe not. Whose to say hearing Tara's scores would have let to Michelle making a major mistake.

I don't like people using the last skater excuse. Yes, the judges left room but they had to. Michelle got all 5.9's for artistry, and her skate was slow so she didn't deserve 6.0's. And her 5.7-5.8 for technical merit was fair. If the judges felt that Tara was worse than Michelle, they could have easily given Tara lower marks.

Tara's performances at worlds and nationals the year before were quite good. Yes, it wasn't that artistic but she was a young little kid.

By 1997-1998 season, Tara's artistry had improved immensley. And the girl had several quite good performances. It's not fair to say the Olympics was Tara's only good perfomance. In fact, one could argue that Tara should have won the Olympic short program as well. Her long program was excellent, and it was also much more difficult than Kwan's, who was tenative there, and only did a triple toe rather than a triple flip. Quite frankly, Tara's scores in the short should have been at least closer.

I wouldn't be surprised if that played into the judges minds as well going into the long.

 

[Mathman]

Kristine Musadembo?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yes, it wasn't that artistic but she was a young little kid

I think Kwan was only about a year older, but of course, she was a much mature skater.That 'little kid' syndrome will always be a winner. The sport is laid out for little kids to capitalize on that. While Sarah didn't look like a little kid she was, and she was THE kid underdog.

Watch out for that little whippersnapper Caroline this year. She will melt everyone's heart.

Joe

 

[bekalc]

I think Kwan was only about a year older, but of course, she was a much mature skater.That 'little kid' syndrome will always be a winner. The sport is laid out for little kids to capitalize on that. While Sarah didn't look like a little kid she was, and she was THE kid underdog.

Watch out for that little whippersnapper Caroline this year. She will melt everyone's heart.

Joe

No. Michelle Kwan was two years older than Tara. And at 14, Michelle Kwan was no more artistic than Tara Lipinski was. At least, Tara smiled more. At 14, Michelle was also referred to as a jumping bean.

At 15, Tara had improved her artistry tremendously. The thing about Tara was she was probably one of the hardest workers in skating. The girl would train for hours and hours. If anything she trained to hard. It's kind of amazing to think about a 14 year old who trains to hard, but that was Tara. Tara spend tons of time working on her artistry, and she made a lot of stride by the time she was 15. Her extension was excellent, she really felt her music and her moves. Tara by 15, was no jumping bean, and she did get 4 5.9's at the Championship series.

 

[slutskayafan21]

No. Michelle Kwan was two years older than Tara. And at 14, Michelle Kwan was no more artistic than Tara Lipinski was. At least, Tara smiled more. At 14, Michelle was also referred to as a jumping bean.

At 15, Tara had improved her artistry tremendously. The thing about Tara was she was probably one of the hardest workers in skating. The girl would train for hours and hours. If anything she trained to hard. It's kind of amazing to think about a 14 year old who trains to hard, but that was Tara. Tara spend tons of time working on her artistry, and she made a lot of stride by the time she was 15. Her extension was excellent, she really felt her music and her moves. Tara by 15, was no jumping bean, and she did get 4 5.9's at the Championship series.

At 14 Tara was probably atleast as artistically strong as Michelle at 14. However Michelle at 15 was clearly artistically stronger then Tara at 15, despite Tara herself making noticeable strides artistically from 14 to 15. Michelle at 15 scored 2 perfect 6.0s for artistic presentation in winning the World title (her main rival Chen also had two 6.0s for artistic presentation, but 1 fewer triple which probably made the difference). Tara was not IMO capable of receiving any 6.0s for artistic presentation at 15 at a World event, under any circumstances or any draw order.

 

[bekalc]

At 14 Tara was probably atleast as artistically strong as Michelle at 14. However Michelle at 15 was clearly artistically stronger then Tara at 15, despite Tara herself making noticeable strides artistically from 14 to 15. Michelle at 15 scored 2 perfect 6.0s for artistic presentation in winning the World title (her main rival Chen also had two 6.0s for artistic presentation, but 1 fewer triple which probably made the difference). Tara was not IMO capable of receiving any 6.0s for artistic presentation at 15 at a World event, under any circumstances or any draw order.

I don't think I said that Tara was as strong as Michelle artistically at 15. Michelle was stronger than Tara artistically at 15, but then again Tara was stronger technically than Michelle was at 15, so I think they even themselves out there.

Personally, I still think that at no way was Michelle Chen Lu's equal aritistically in 1996....Michelle in my book did win that competition but it was through the technical mark.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

And at 14, Michelle Kwan was no more artistic than Tara Lipinski was.

It's your opinion. It would be nice if you tagged on the 'imo' line.

I don't like people using the last skater excuse.

I believe you do not like people also especially if they don't agree with you.

Joe

 

[bekalc]

It's your opinion. It would be nice if you tagged on the 'imo' line.


I believe you do not like people also especially if they don't agree with you.

Joe

Of course it's just My opinion, that's kind of understood.

But hey, Joe, I'm not the one who gets so upset that I attack people in other threads about a disagreement I have with them in another thread. Like you did with me about an issue on this thread, over at the JGPF threads... I'm sure the people on that thread truly appreciated that one.

But what meant is that marks are merely placement markers. Michelle Kwan has won quite a few competitions going first up. The judges have to leave room for other skaters, but if they think that a skater isn't as good as Michelle was, all they had to do is gasp, give them lower markers than Michelle. They somehow managed to do that in quite a few competitions.

 

[rtureck]

I prefer Tara than Kwan. If she stays in skateing circle longer, she will be legend.

Being the youngest olys, world and natinal champ is already legendary. I am glad she turned pro, because with her injuries and all, I don't think she will last one more season as an elligible skater.

I think Tara won fair and square at Nagano, but if she stayed on with her injuries and all, likley Kwan and or Irina will beat her.

 

[rtureck]

I didn't see anything "girlish" in Mao's "Nocturne" sp nor "So deep is night" gala program,

Thank you, and ITA.