Skaters who competed under the wrong scoring system

[MCsAngel2]

Or Toller and Janet Lynn without school figures

I guess they will need to be content that the scoring because of them, but not in time to reward them.

Brian Orser would have done better without figures. He might be a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist if he hadn't to compete in figures, too.

Yes, I was going to point out the 6.0 system was not static. There was the moving target of the figures. Toller Cranston won the free skate portion three times (twice at Worlds and once at the Olympics), but only ever had one World bronze and one Olympic bronze medal. Brian Orser has 2 Olympic silver medals. Both these guys would have been more successful without figures, which weren't eliminated until after they retired.

 

[lesnar001]

Brian Orser would have done better without figures. He might be a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist if he hadn't to compete in figures, too.

1984 - yes.
1988 - ??? - didn't Brian Boitano win the LP? Assuming BB was in the top 3 after the SP, that would give him the win.

Mind you, for 1988 this is from my memory of only the LP. And for 1984 - it is based on Scott Hamilton saying that Brian Orser trounced them all in the LP.

 

[gkelly]

6.0 with figures or without figures? Even 6.0 without figures was different from early 90s to early 2000s.

I'm sorry -- I meant how judges would compare different programs/performances rather than different skaters in general. Since the same judge could sometimes score A ahead of B and other times B ahead of A depending how they each skated on a given occasion. Including from one competition phase to the next in the same event.

But yes, imagining what 2020 performances would look like to 1990 eyes might be different from how they'd look to 2000 eyes. Not because a 1990 judge would look at a SP or freeskate and evaluate it on how that skater might have placed in the figures, but because the SP rules had changed over that time and because the state of the art had developed as well.

 

[MCsAngel2]

1984 - yes.
1988 - ??? - didn't Brian Boitano win the LP? Assuming BB was in the top 3 after the SP, that would give him the win.

You are right that the 1988 Olympic result wouldn't have changed for Orser.

However, if not for figures, he would have come in 3rd instead of 4th in 1982, 2nd instead of 3rd in 1983, 1st instead of 2nd in 1984, and 1st instead of 2nd in 1988 at Worlds.

 

[lesnar001]

You are right that the 1988 Olympic result wouldn't have changed for Orser.

However, if not for figures, he would have come in 3rd instead of 4th in 1982, 2nd instead of 3rd in 1983, 1st instead of 2nd in 1984, and 1st instead of 2nd in 1988 at Worlds.

Thank you.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Mind you, for 1988 this is from my memory of only the LP. And for 1984 - it is based on Scott Hamilton saying that Brian Orser trounced them all in the LP.

Yeah, do you realize Orser came in SEVENTH place in compulsory figures - and he still won silver. That's impressive.

 

[macy]

Ashley Wagner
Adam Rippon
Mirai Nagasu
Jeremy Abbott
Karen Chen

 

[lyrichord]

Daisuke Takahashi might have benefited from a no figures 6.0 scoring system. Artistic, charismatic guy who lost a lot of IJS points on URs when they were scored as full downgrades.

 

[lesnar001]

I think Yukari Nakano would have fared better under 6.0 (which I believe was still in effect when she debuted).

I first remember her at SA 2002 (?) where she was one of 2 Ladies to perform a 3A.
I thought she developed into an artistic skater, but was prone to UR's, which cost her a lot of points.
The only other "issue" I remember her having was a leg wrap, so I don't know how much that would have cost her under 6.0.

I thought for sure she would win a medal at Worlds 2008, but she ended up in 4th.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Daisuke Takahashi might have benefited from a no figures 6.0 scoring system. Artistic, charismatic guy who lost a lot of IJS points on URs when they were scored as full downgrades.

Agreed. Dai's mistakes often came under rotational issues, which would often be overlooked for a clean "looking" program. And of course, his artistry would put him miles above others. Jeff Buttle also would have probably fared well under 6.0.

I think the general consensus is that skaters who are more technically inclined would do better under IJS and skaters who are more artistically inclined would do better under 6.0. 6.0 didn't really give much credit for technical innovation (see: Goebel) if you weren't one of the "favourites" and relegated to being a "technical skater".

 

[yume]

Ashley Wagner
Adam Rippon
Mirai Nagasu
Jeremy Abbott
Karen Chen

Most of them were/are inconsistents and average on most of skills. I think most of them still would have gotten average results.

Only Abott under school figures would have done much better imo.

 

[slider11]

Nancy Kerrigan would have likely beat Oksana Bayuil for Olympic gold in 1994 with her strong technical skills and competent artistry. Oksana's URs, if scored correctly, would have pulled her technical scores down despite her exuberant performance skills.

 

[yume]

I wonder how the judges would have scored Midori Ito's jumps that had the "leg wrap".

Pretty good i think given Kostornaya's GOEs.

 

[dlarry1]

In IJS at her own time, Denise Biellman would have a lot more hardware.

 

[Ladskater]

Interesting topic. I've been resisting responding here because the old way of judging and the new way of judging is so different. I FS when the old system and figures were a large part of competition. We were used to seeing wonderful free skaters like Karen Magnussen and Janet Lynn get undermarked on their figures, then have an outstanding free skate only to be beaten by a skater like Trixi Schuba because of her finesse at figures. It always left one wondering why? The figures portion was always done without being seen by the average fan. It was the same in the men's for Toller Cranston and Brian Orser. Now it's the quad that is preventing some of the wonderful artistic skaters from reaching the podium. Oh well that is FS. There has to be a benchmark.

 

[TT_Fin]

Denise Biellmann at Olympics, compared to other ladies in the same games. We just have to remove compulsory figures and score all ladies by today's system at the same games. She may have won, at least she would have been on the podium.