Coaches' Corner

[lesnar001]

This thread has taken a very strange indeed!


I would argue Eteri started it with her shameful attack calling Plushy a fake coach. Frankly I find it disturbing that Eteri is apparently so jealous that she would try and trash a man's career over a discussion about quads. That's insane!

I'm actually trying to remember how the whole thing started....
1) Alina announced her career break
2) Plushy said her team should be doing more for her
3) Eteri called Plushy a fake coach
4) Plushy said that Alina sought out his advice on quads

I don't think he did anything maliciously, not at all, but I still think it put Alina on the hotseat.
And judging at how Eteri lashed out at him for #2, why would she not be equally upset at Alina for #4.

Well, at least that's how I remember the timeline.

 

[hanca]

Considering that Dumbledore planned Harry's death since he was a child I don't know if being Prof. Dumbledore is such a great role. I think Mishin fits Prof. Binns more.

He didn’t plan his death because he knew Harry would survive. If you know someone would be in danger but will survive, then you are not planning their death but their survival, technically.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And judging at how Eteri lashed out at him for #2, why would she not be equally upset at Alina for #4.

Exactly! I remember clearly that Plushy made no suggestion at the time of #2 that Alina should even come to his school specifically. He merely pointed out - as others had - that Alina could have benefited from more attention from her team. And she probably would have, the fact Eteri reacted the way she did speaks to me of a guilty conscience and in order to deflect it she made an outrageous attack.

And with #4, Alina and Plushy were both at a show in Japan I believe and she asked for advice. Is Eteri suggesting her student aren't even allowed to talk to other skaters at a show without permission? I remember hearing that Javi (I think?) also got some jumping advice from Plushy at a show, did Brian O lose his mind over it?

 

[yume]

Who's Hufflepuff?

Lambiel.

 

[Magill]

Exactly! I remember clearly that Plushy made no suggestion at the time of #2 that Alina should even come to his school specifically. He merely pointed out - as others had - that Alina could have benefited from more attention from her team. And she probably would have, the fact Eteri reacted the way she did speaks to me of a guilty conscience and in order to deflect it she made an outrageous attack.

And with #4, Alina and Plushy were both at a show in Japan I believe and she asked for advice. Is Eteri suggesting her student aren't even allowed to talk to other skaters at a show without permission? I remember hearing that Javi (I think?) also got some jumping advice from Plushy at a show, did Brian O lose his mind over it?

Yes, I also remember it this way. It is crazy to think that asking a fellow retired skater for advise on some technical issue at the backstage of some show they did together would be seen as betrayal or as any kind of problem, really.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

He didn’t plan his death because he knew Harry would survive. If you know someone would be in danger but will survive, then you are not planning their death but their survival, technically.

Dumbledore did not know that Harry would survive though. It was a calculated gamble, if Narcissa Malfoy had not protected Harry and told Voldemort he was dead, Harry would have died that day in the forest. Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice Harry for the "greater good", he did not know how his plan would turn out, it could have gone either way. Not to mention he placed Harry willingly in an abusive home or at least a home he knew would not welcome Harry with open arms and resented Harry's parents.
Yes, he put Harry there for the blood protection, however, there could have been many other possibilities to protect Harry than placing him with the Dursleys or someone competent could have checked up on Harry and made sure he was treated well, Arabella Figg was clearly inadequate.

Many people tend to overlook all the shady stuff Dumbledore has done over the course of the books to achieve Voldemort's defeat. Dumbledore was neither completely good nor evil.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic.

 

[yume]

Dumbledore did not know that Harry would survive though. It was a calculated gamble, if Narcissa Malfoy had not protected Harry and told Voldemort he was dead, Harry would have died that day in the forest. Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice Harry for the "greater good", he did not know how his plan would turn out, it could have gone either way. Not to mention he placed Harry willingly in an abusive home or at least a home he knew would not welcome Harry with open arms and resented Harry's parents.
Yes, he put Harry there for the blood protection, however, there could have been many other possibilities to protect Harry than placing him with the Dursleys or someone competent could have checked up on Harry and made sure he was treated well, Arabella Figg was clearly inadequate.

Many people tend to overlook all the shady stuff Dumbledore has done over the course of the books to achieve Voldemort's defeat. Dumbledore was neither completely good nor evil.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic.

Tarasova.

 

[Magill]

Dumbledore did not know that Harry would survive though. It was a calculated gamble, if Narcissa Malfoy had not protected Harry and told Voldemort he was dead, Harry would have died that day in the forest. Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice Harry for the "greater good", he did not know how his plan would turn out, it could have gone either way. Not to mention he placed Harry willingly in an abusive home or at least a home he knew would not welcome Harry with open arms and resented Harry's parents.
Yes, he put Harry there for the blood protection, however, there could have been many other possibilities to protect Harry than placing him with the Dursleys or someone competent could have checked up on Harry and made sure he was treated well, Arabella Figg was clearly inadequate.

Many people tend to overlook all the shady stuff Dumbledore has done over the course of the books to achieve Voldemort's defeat. Dumbledore was neither completely good nor evil.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic.

You're right, he gambled. He had his shady side, for sure. But we learn to like him more and more with each subsequent book and in the end we are just too fond of him to let go. That's life. There is good and bad in everyone. Coaches included

 

[opruh]

So dramatic, as long as the best female figure skater wins in Beijing (a Russian of course), then I'm happy.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I remember some coaches in the US getting "blacklisted" over poaching students from other coaches. Is that more of a USFSA thing or is that strongly frowned upon everywhere?

 

[anonymoose_au]

I remember some coaches in the US getting "blacklisted" over poaching students from other coaches. Is that more of a USFSA thing or is that strongly frowned upon everywhere?

Well Edges of Glory just twitted about a few US skaters who have changed their coaches just recently - Andrew Torgashev and Tina Cui so it's not like one can't change their coach.

How does one defined "poaching" students though? I mean I assume it would be to do with breaking contracts? I mean if a skater really wants to leave their coach, surely they can't be forced not to, that sounds borderline illegal!

Do you remember which coaches they were? Or did the "blacklisting" cause them to disappear from the coaching landscape because they got a bad reputation?

This does bring up questions...I wonder why coaches in Russia seem to have such bad relations with each other, like way back when Alexei Mishin and Tatiana Tarasova were bitter rivals, I remember reading in Plushy's biography that once Mishin stopped him from standing up with a bunch of other people when there was a toast for Tarasova's birthday during a dinner. Yikes! I don't remember ever reading about Frank Caroll dissing Raf A for example. Does this happen in other sports in Russia?

Also the title of this thread is amusing to me with alll the Harry Potter talk, which came first I wonder

 

[anonymoose_au]

Who's Hufflepuff?

Maybe good old Sergei Dudakov - he's cuddly, helpful to his students (carrying their plushies) and works hard in the background. I feel like he'd be fair to everyone.

 

[Skatesocs]

Much like the RLT had nothing to do with Russian ladies' skating, this thread now has nothing to do with coaching.

 

[plushyfan]

What exactly does Plushkenko think he's gaining by doing all of this? Beyond stroking his ego I mean. These aren't his competition days when he was personally going head to head with Yagudin. This now directly involves and affects other people beyond himself, his students. It's not just unprofessional, it's pathetic.

And dragging Alina into it is just She's not even competing anymore!

Dragging Alina? She is in it from the beginning..She was who started this.

 

[plushyfan]

how is Eteri Hermione though?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Dragging Alina? She is in it from the beginning..She was who started this.

Well let's not blame Alina for any of this, just as Sasha, Aliona and Zhenya Med have/had a right to leave Eteri she has the right to stay. It's hardly her fault if Eteri and Plushy fight about her or if Plushy choses to answer a question about her (tbh I feel like he should ignore those, Alina's not competing so it's really neither here nor there).

According to the interview which I finally got around to reading, the DMs between Alina and Yana were regarding the Swan Lake show which he is hoping to take to Japan. Alina is beloved there so having her as the white swan would be pretty awesome. Of course if Alina plans to return it would probably be impossible to do the show even if she wanted to. So that could be an indication that Alina does hope to compete once more.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Much like the RLT had nothing to do with Russian ladies' skating, this thread now has nothing to do with coaching.

The discussion about coaching was much more serious in the RLT than the coaching thread . Im enjoying this as at least it's original (haven't had this discussion before).


And let's be honest, Sergei Rozanov was like Dobby . And Trusova must be Harry potter (who freed him) as according to plushenko her dad told him to hire Rozanov.

If Harry potter doesn't fit the coaches we could always try Greek gods? Let's start: Tarasova is Aphrodite... Wait no what have I done!

 

[plushyfan]

Everybody forgot about this part of the interview:

"
- Or maybe you shouldn't put up for the sake of popularizing the sport?
- I took a step forward, so as not to make any attacks on each other, I told them that no one is attacking you, but I will defend myself. I will defend myself toughly, a lot of information is not in favor of the headquarters, a lot of parents are ready to voice the facts.
- What topic?
- I (for now) tell you this, throw it in, but there is a lot of information, it's not for nothing that half of Khrustalny is training with me....


I would like to know those informations..The Hermione Eteri...

 

[plushyfan]

Well let's not blame Alina for any of this, just as Sasha, Aliona and Zhenya Med have/had a right to leave Eteri she has the right to stay. It's hardly her fault if Eteri and Plushy fight about her or if Plushy choses to answer a question about her (tbh I feel like he should ignore those, Alina's not competing so it's really neither here nor there).

According to the interview which I finally got around to reading, the DMs between Alina and Yana were regarding the Swan Lake show which he is hoping to take to Japan. Alina is beloved there so having her as the white swan would be pretty awesome. Of course if Alina plans to return it would probably be impossible to do the show even if she wanted to. So that could be an indication that Alina does hope to compete once more.

"- As for Alina, Yana really communicates with her for a long time and they correspond. Alina was really going to leave for me a year ago, and no one lured her away. It really is.
- Did she turn to you and say that she decided to go?
- I tell you as it is, but how it happened, why do you need to know?
- This is the most interesting. This is the answer, whether they lured away or not.
- Yana wrote to her this time, because we have a show. It didn't say "go train with us".
- Well, that's understandable.
- We are the owners of our shows, while she is not in sports, we decided to propose.
- Why?
- This season she will not skate.
- In this, it is clear that, most likely, it will not.
- And we have a show not only in Russia, but also abroad. Next year we are planning to show our "Swan Lake" in Japan. Our Japanese partners, like us, would like to see Alina "White Swan" there, they wanted to invite her to ride with us, test new ice (we have a Canadian water purification system - mirror ice), Western choreographers will help in staging shows for Asia. Alina really wanted this role. Yana discussed this with her a year ago, so they invited her. When an athlete does not skate, but leads a show on television, she is not in sports, she has various other options open. She's not a serf. She has no agents, no one. She even, in my opinion, does not even know about it. We offered her to cooperate. Where is the poaching here? The bottom line is the offer to ride a show in Japan, not even in Russia (since she skates with Tanya Navka in Moscow), but in no case is there any enticement here. There is an offer to cooperate. We ride in the show andJulia Lipnitskaya , and Adelina Sotnikova , and Lena Radionova, and Stolbova Ksenia , no one asked the coaches for permission.
“She's a member of another headquarters.
- Well, what's wrong with that?
- To be completely honest, you need to go to the headquarters first. Let's say Tatyana Navka invited her to the show, but she called Tutberidze first.
- Yes, I don't care who invited her. Eteri is not a manager (Zagitova). Here I have a manager, and everyone knows through whom to communicate. Either they call me directly, or they communicate through the manager. Or they call directly, and I send to the agent. Alina Zagitova has no manager.
- The position is clear.
- Well, that's all. Why should I call the coach? I'm not inviting her to Japan to compete in Japan Open."

I would like to see her in tha show.

 

[yume]

Everybody forgot about this part of the interview:

"
- Or maybe you shouldn't put up for the sake of popularizing the sport?
- I took a step forward, so as not to make any attacks on each other, I told them that no one is attacking you, but I will defend myself. I will defend myself toughly, a lot of information is not in favor of the headquarters, a lot of parents are ready to voice the facts.
- What topic?
- I (for now) tell you this, throw it in, but there is a lot of information, it's not for nothing that half of Khrustalny is training with me....


I would like to know those informations..The Hermione Eteri...

A true Slytherin.
I love that she says he's defending himself, as if his shady take on Zagitova's struggles wasn't an attack. If another coach tells him how to train his skaters and pretend to know better what is suited for them i guess he will be glad.

Eteri is really a griffindor though. The guts she has to talk negatively about people who can make her life harder (Plushy and Tarasova)