2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Rina RUS]

Yagudin, again and again, constantly attacks Evgheni and I can't stand this. Why?

I don't want to argue, I want to say only one thing.

Not long ago, when Yagudin was invited to skate on "Plushenko's" rink, Evgeni even turned it into a drama. Evgeni's fan insisted that rink belonged to Evgeni (so Yagudin shouldn't had agreed to skate there). People said Evgeni just had been paying for some hours on that rink (so that his students could skate).
Today even Evgeni admits he still doesn't own any rink. (He is just going to have two rinks.)

I just think it is odd that you don't notice Evgeni's behaviour and only ask: "Why?"
(Nothing more.)
Sorry for the off-topic.

 

[katymay]

Is Plushenko really the first coach to criticize the scoring at an event? Or in a nastier way than anyone else? I could be wrong, but I get the sense that one interview is being discussed here on a silly figure skating forum WAY more than it is by any of the skaters, coaches, judges or officials involved.

Honestly, it probably should be, and by all the coaches as a combined unit. Watching the Juniors today at the Russian cup, I was really bothered by what I think was rather gross manipulation of GOE on the jumps. (Maybe spins and other elements as well, I wasn't paying attention) Some wonderful jumps were given the minimal GOE, and some pretty iffy jumps awarded generous GOE. Since they give you a very good slo mo view of the jump, there is no doubt whether it was clean, edge, height etc. Most of these little girls work very hard to put a great program out on the ice, they deserve better judging, even if they are not 'well connected'.

 

[gsk8]

Hey folks,

Once again, we ask that coach-related discussions are made in the thread below to prevent derailing of the Russian Ladies' figure skating thread.
In addition, excessive bashing of coaches is not allowed, per the forum guidelines. With that being said, the thread created below was to allow mature discussions about coaches.

Coaches' Corner

This thread is for discussions of any and all figure skating coaches, their methods, styles, etc. While not a "Fan Fest" thread, members are still expected to abide by the Terms of Use and Forum Guidelines.

www.goldenskate.com

Also, please refrain from making political statements or lacing your posts with "Putin" as this is not allowed per the forum guidelines.

Forum Guidelines

Forum Guidelines

www.goldenskate.com

We also ask again that you post "news articles" from reputable news sites (not blogs) pertaining to skaters in the Edge so that everyone can be informed and discuss them or otherwise participate. Not everyone comes to the RTL

 

[Fluture]

Why? Medvedeva was never that good at that age imo, and she neeeever had those spins.

Well, usually every generation is better at that age than the last, simply because the sport and the requirements are evolving. So that‘s not really something I tend to look at when comparing skaters. What I think people see in Adelia that is similar to Evgenia is her charisma and that they have a bit of a similar look in terms of appearance, imo. (like how Evgenia and Adelina looked similar when Zhenya was younger) Also, Adelia skated to the exact same version of Evgenia‘s 2018 Olympic Gala last year. And Adelia‘s weakness is her 2A technique, sounds familiar, too, doesn‘t it?

I confess that I originally noticed Adelia because she reminded me of Evgenia, too. But now that I‘ve watched her for a while, I agree with you that despite some similarities, they‘re still very different overall in their skating. Adelia has lots of speed (one of the areas young Evgenia really struggled with), so much that she can appear a bit frantic at times. Young Evgenia also had a more quiet, sophisticated, almost introverted style before she started to go for the dramatic programs later on. Adelia, on the other hand, is just a ball of energy, she bursts onto the stage and you just know it‘s her. So, yeah, while there‘s outwardly a lot that‘s similar, if you actually watch the two, they have a distinct and rather unique style.

 

[Jontor]

Honestly, it probably should be, and by all the coaches as a combined unit. Watching the Juniors today at the Russian cup, I was really bothered by what I think was rather gross manipulation of GOE on the jumps. (Maybe spins and other elements as well, I wasn't paying attention) Some wonderful jumps were given the minimal GOE, and some pretty iffy jumps awarded generous GOE. Since they give you a very good slo mo view of the jump, there is no doubt whether it was clean, edge, height etc. Most of these little girls work very hard to put a great program out on the ice, they deserve better judging, even if they are not 'well connected'.

I have to say though Katy that I didn't notice that. And I'm thinking, why would the judges try to manipulate the scoring? They have to do it collectively as well, which is very hard to do. They are all interested in putting the best skaters forward to international competitions, aren't they?

I can't help but reminiscing about my old fave Maria Butyrskaya who had a great career from 1992-2002. She won a medal at the Russian Nationals every single year during those 11 years. But did she have the RusFeds support? No. They told her again and again that she was no good and would never accomplish anything. Still, they marked her fairly at Nationals and HAD to send her to international events. And eventually, she became the first Russian World Champion in 1999. OK, this was during the old 6.0 system, but still, I don't think things have changed. Why would the Russian judges manipulate the scores? I don't get it.

 

[Jontor]

Well, usually every generation is better at that age than the last, simply because the sport and the requirements are evolving. So that‘s not really something I tend to look at when comparing skaters. What I think people see in Adelia that is similar to Evgenia is her charisma and that they have a bit of a similar look in terms of appearance, imo. (like how Evgenia and Adelina looked similar when Zhenya was younger) Also, Adelia skated to the exact same version of Evgenia‘s 2018 Olympic Gala last year. And Adelia‘s weakness is her 2A technique, sounds familiar, too, doesn‘t it?

I confess that I originally noticed Adelia because she reminded me of Evgenia, too. But now that I‘ve watched her for a while, I agree with you that despite some similarities, they‘re still very different overall in their skating. Adelia has lots of speed (one of the areas young Evgenia really struggled with), so much that she can appear a bit frantic at times. Young Evgenia also had a more quiet, sophisticated, almost introverted style before she started to go for the dramatic programs later on. Adelia, on the other hand, is just a ball of energy, she bursts onto the stage and you just know it‘s her. So, yeah, while there‘s outwardly a lot that‘s similar, if you actually watch the two, they have a distinct and rather unique style.

I agree with your second paragraph

For me, they are miles apart. There is no secret that I never was a die hard Medvedeva fan, but Petrosyan I love. So for that alone, saying that they are like each other seems strange to me. But hey, that's the fascinating mystery of figure skating I guess.

 

[Jontor]

Awwww, sounds like Anna misses the times when they traveled and competed together with Sasha and Aliona.

Yes, this broke my heart a bit. I think these changes happening this year has not only affected Anna, but for sure Sasha and Alëna as well.
They were the unbeatable gang last year, and surely they must have some great memories from that. Ah well, life goes on...

 

[chasingneverland]

Rika wouldn't have even sniffed a podium last year with 3A around. Will things change this year? Possibly. I only wish we get to see them in a competition together and that would be at Worlds and that's in great doubt for obvious reasons.

Wouldn't have sniffed the podium?!?! Rika scored a 232 at 4CC. For comparison Sasha scored a 225 at Europeans (Anna scored a 237 and Alena a 240.) That seems like more than the same level to me and to say it was a given that all the 3A would've medaled and Rika would not have even gotten bronze is, quite frankly, disingenuous.

 

[Edwin]

There should be a tally somewhere of Rika Kihira, Japan's #1 vs Russia's #1, #2 or #3 over the last 2 or 3 seasons?

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Wouldn't have sniffed the podium?!?! Rika scored a 232 at 4CC. For comparison Sasha scored a 225 at Europeans (Anna scored a 237 and Alena a 240.) That seems like more than the same level to me and to say it was a given that all the 3A would've medaled and Rika would not have even gotten bronze is, quite frankly, disingenuous.

And that 232 was with only two 3As, since she popped one into a single so with a 3rd one she would have been in the 240-242 range.

 

[Amei]

Wouldn't have sniffed the podium?!?! Rika scored a 232 at 4CC. For comparison Sasha scored a 225 at Europeans (Anna scored a 237 and Alena a 240.) That seems like more than the same level to me and to say it was a given that all the 3A would've medaled and Rika would not have even gotten bronze is, quite frankly, disingenuous.

It should be noted though that you compared 4CC which was perhaps Rika's best international competition with Europeans which was probably the worst competition for Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Trusova.

 

[Jontor]

It should be noted though that you compared 4CC which was perhaps Rika's best international competition with Europeans which was probably the worst competition for Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Trusova.

It should also be noted that 4CC last season was a very happy competition. The whole top 10 scored season's best - which might suggest that the level of the overall scoring was very generous.

 

[Jontor]

For me, this would be the veteran trio of last season. My tier list would be as follows (please don't come at me, this is just for fun).

Tier 1 (230-250):
Anna, Sasha, Alena, Kamila
Tier 2 (210-230):
Alina, Evgenia, Liza, Daria, Ksenia
Tier 3 (190-210):
Maiia, Anna Frolova (also Vasilieva and Tarakanova but they may not be skating this year)
Tier 4 (170+):
All the well known girls who have trouble getting out of the country.
Sakhanovich, Gubanova, Guliakova, Tsibinova, Shulskaya, Talailaykina, Nugumanova etc.
Plus the ones who are inconsistent or had a bad season -> Konstantinova and Samodurova

Love your Tiers

I would just add that all the ladies in your Tier 4 has all scored above 190. So I would scrap Tier 4 and move all of them up to Tier 3.

Edit: On second thought, you have a point. All those Tier 4 has a tendency to slip under 190. So let's keep Tier 4.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

It should be noted though that you compared 4CC which was perhaps Rika's best international competition with Europeans which was probably the worst competition for Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Trusova.

No it wasn't the worst comp for Anna and Alena. For Sasha, yes.

Anna
CS Lombardia Trophy 218.20
GP Skate America 227.76
GP Cup of China 226.04
GPF 240.92
RusNats 261.87
Europeans 237.76
Euro's was Anna's 2nd best competiton internationally

Sasha
CS Ondrej Nepela 238.69
GP Skate Canada 241.02
GP Rostelecom Cup 234.47
GPF 233.18
RusNats 226.34
Euros 225.34
For Sasha the GPF, RusNats and Euros were the worst comps.

Kostornaia
CS Finlandia Trophy 234.84
GP IdF 236.00
GP NHK 240.00
GPF 247.59
RusNats 259.83
Euro's 240.81
For Alena Euro's was an average score if you have a look at all of her international scores

 

[chasingneverland]

And that 232 was with only two 3As, since she popped one into a single so with a 3rd one she would have been in the 240-242 range.

Yes, although Alena fell on her 3Lz, Anna on her 4Lz, and Sasha on her quads. So it's not entirely fair to only give Rika the benefit of the doubt. The point is ice is slippery and I think only Alena has skated completely clean short and long programs at full potential in the past year but to say they're not at the same level is quite frankly wrong.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Yes, although Alena fell on her 3Lz, Anna on her 4Lz, and Sasha fell on her quads. So it's not entirely fair to only give Rika the benefit of the doubt. The point is ice is slippery and I think only Alena has skated completely clean short and long programs at full potential in the past year but to say their not at the same level is quite frankly wrong.

Touché!

 

[chasingneverland]

It should be noted though that you compared 4CC which was perhaps Rika's best international competition with Europeans which was probably the worst competition for Shcherbakova, Kostornaia and Trusova.

No, I was comparing their most recent scores internationally that season. (I forgot Rika's 230 at the Challenge cup so substitute that instead if you must.) The argument was if Rika could have sniffed the podium. Clearly she could have. It makes sense to look at what would be their most recent international competitions before worlds, where Rika was trending upwards and potentially Sasha was trending downwards. (Anna and Alena also struggled though.) So to say that Rika had no chance at it is, quite frankly, false.

 

[chasingneverland]

It should also be noted that 4CC last season was a very happy competition. The whole top 10 scored season's best - which might suggest that the level of the overall scoring was very generous.

Well she did get a 230 at the Challenge Cup and was almost back at full strength by this point in the season. So it stands to reason that that would lead to seasons best scores for Rika, regardless. Her technical content was higher.

Also, Rika is the only female skater other than Sasha (yes that includes Alena and Anna) to score over 200 at every single competition she entered in the last two seasons. So, to say Rika isn't at their level is false.

 

[Mathman]

When there are those who are provoked and those who provoke I would place much bigger blame on the latter.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, this thread is dominated by three or four posters who do nothing but stir the pot and provoke others for no purpose except that they evidently enjoy doing so.

Otherwise, aggressors would always win ...

What is it that we trying to "win"? A contest to see who can shout more loudly and belligerently than someone else? How does it hurt anyone if a Japanese fan thinks their skaters are great? Russian ladies won everything for the last couple of years. No angry "Knock this chip off my shoulder" words can add to or detract from that fact. Why not be a gracious winner? (A gracious winner, after all, is a winner.)

 

[chasingneverland]

For me, this would be the veteran trio of last season. My tier list would be as follows (please don't come at me, this is just for fun).

Tier 1 (230-250):
Anna, Sasha, Alena, Kamila
Tier 2 (210-230):
Alina, Evgenia, Liza, Daria, Ksenia
Tier 3 (190-210):
Maiia, Anna Frolova (also Vasilieva and Tarakanova but they may not be skating this year)
Tier 4 (170+):
All the well known girls who have trouble getting out of the country.
Sakhanovich, Gubanova, Guliakova, Tsibinova, Shulskaya, Talailaykina, Nugumanova etc.
Plus the ones who are inconsistent or had a bad season -> Konstantinova and Samodurova

I would agree with these tiers!