2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 491 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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On the rippon trend I will repeat what I said a few pages back. The upwards movement of the arms can if correctly timed add height similair to how high jumpers raise their arms at takeoff. The uppwards movement helping you gian more upwards momentum. Also a strong rippon position with straight arms and back is the most ideal rotating position (can be proved using physics). empesis here on good technique and strong rippon position. Of the four weve seen this last week I would say that the two Sofias have generally good positions and the rippon is fine. For Valieva, no! just no! the position is twisted in the air and with her tendency to tilt is the air this has the potential to make it even worse. Sashas could be fine if she held it all the way. She generally has good rippon on her 3Lz and 3F so I dont see it being a huge issue. However in this video she seems to bail out with 1.5-2 rotations to go and when she lowers her arms she slows her rotation speed but also seems to drop her torso forward which is a big no! for keeping a good rotation speed (and also a nice landing)

Edit: saw the Vincent video. His is actually worse than sashas the position is never properly streched and he looks similairly twised to Valieva and its clearly under. More so than the attempt from sasha.
 
most of these jumps are still WIP, so will be adjusted as more attempts are made

it would be interesting to see which schools produce 'straight' vs 'screwed' jumps

'straight' seems mechanically easier to me for certain body types

both jumping techniques still require great strength, minimal weight and serious conditioning and warm up in their daily preparation, which is well catered for in the top schools of Russia, but might be less elsewhere, because I'd hate to see 'smaller' federations chucking suicide quads on poor technique.
 
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Vilord said:
Edit: saw the Vincent video. His is actually worse than sashas the position is never properly streched and he looks similairly twised to Valieva and its clearly under. More so than the attempt from sasha.
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Which Vincent video? The one he did in competition was actually really great and I certainly am not his fan. It’s completely stretched out, he keeps the rippon throughout the entire jump, it emphasizes the height and distance of the jump, and is just a nice air position, and jump, in general. (Despite his less than ideal takeoff technique, of course) https://www.instagram.com/p/BwRiSbTHN-S/?igshid=lwg1pma7a1ru

With that being said, he only did this once in competition, at WTT. Despite how nice it was this once, it’s clearly not sustainable for him. I can’t imagine it’ll be sustainable for anyone, especially those doing the rippon variation with shakier technique and much less height/distance.
 
bubblecherry said:
Which Vincent video? The one he did in competition was actually really great and I certainly am not his fan. It’s completely stretched out, he keeps the rippon throughout the entire jump, it emphasizes the height and distance of the jump, and is just a nice air position, and jump, in general. (Despite his less than ideal takeoff technique, of course) https://www.instagram.com/p/BwRiSbTHN-S/?igshid=lwg1pma7a1ru

With that being said, he only did this once in competition, at WTT. Despite how nice it was this once, it’s clearly not sustainable for him. I can’t imagine it’ll be sustainable for anyone, especially those doing the rippon variation with shakier technique and much less height/distance.
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I watched that jump frame by frame on youtube and the jump is clearly under probably a 4Lz< (Vincent jumps arent allways visibly under in real time even if they often are in slomo) but he also never streches his arms properly and then its no longer as good a rotation position if the elbows arent closer together than the shoulders. If you watch it frame by frame you will also see that the left shouler rotates "before" the left hip (similairly to Valieva) this is what I meant by twisted. Sasha on the other hand has a verry good and tight arm position and straight torso for the first 2 revolutions and then abandones it which causes the jump to be under and the landing to be poor.

Edit: Im not saying that Vincents position is ugly more so that it doesnt help his jump or his rotation speed but rather slowing it down slightly. For someone known for his UR issues I think rippon quads isnt a good idéa unless your rippon position is more ideal than you normal position and helps you rotate the jump.
 
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Arbitrary said:
Interesting..
A lot of negative toward the recent 4Lz Rippon is due to the fact it was Sasha?
Or because it was URed or badly landed or whatever?
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For me, it is simply because it is the latest in a line of Rippon quads and 3As that are in no way improving the quality of the jumps. Sasha's 4T (already a good jump previously) has gotten better. This jump was UR and badly landed..Sasha should improve the quality of her 4Lz, not add a Rippon. Nothing against Sasha, who is on a personal level my favorite little Russian lady. I am just sick of rippons.
 
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a vision, a dream, a castle in the sky?

Trusova will be most content with a competition where all ultra-si will be shown; triksel and all her five different quads. And the beginner trainer won't hold her back in chasing after this dream and will really work in preparing his athlete to achieve it. Bollocks to superior PCS if need be.

It is after all an huge feat of accomplishment in women's single skating when Aleksandra can skate this without really distracting GOE and still a reasonable pleasant and satisfying image. And I really think she can do this.

But when on the national stage, it still won't count for the Guinness Book and any ISU distinction, which sort of means it is a wasted effort. Which makes it all the more sadder.
 
readernick said:
For me, it is simply because it is the latest in a line of Rippon quads and 3As that are in no way improving the quality of the jumps. Sasha's 4T (already a good jump previously) has gotten better. This jump was UR and badly landed..Sasha should improve the quality of her 4Lz, not add a Rippon. Nothing against Sasha, who is on a personal level my favorite little Russian lady. I am just sick of rippons.
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We can't judge jumps like that, based on the video. For me personally rippon jumps look much better live, because of the better extension and the whole body position (which gives impression of much more easiness, freedom and effortlessness - the most used body position in jumps is just not the most usual human body position in everyday life and actually may symbolize 'negative' things). They also may look higher and they certainly occupied more space/ give better impression of fulfilling the ice rink... Now, if the landing is compromised because the rippon position, of course that skater should ditch it...
 
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readernick said:
For me, it is simply because it is the latest in a line of Rippon quads and 3As that are in no way improving the quality of the jumps. Sasha's 4T (already a good jump previously) has gotten better. This jump was UR and badly landed..Sasha should improve the quality of her 4Lz, not add a Rippon. Nothing against Sasha, who is on a personal level my favorite little Russian lady. I am just sick of rippons.
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Agreed in fact i think rippon axels have made the axel worse for many tutberidze skaters this season. We've seen Shcherbakova and Khromykh stepping out of the axel, something they never did in the past, and the jump itself look smaller, the arms give you the impression of the height but if you look at the feet, the elevation is not as high as last season.

So yes it is impressive but not worth doing if it makes the jump worse in my opinion.
 
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readernick said:
As in better? Excluding the top 3 Russian girls who are obviously amazing, the competition at 4CC which includes Koreans, Americans and Japanese is generally at a much higher level than the other European ladies. And, if you want to talk scoring at Europeans Alexia P.. scored 20 points higher than she had all season. Emmi Peltonen also got PB scores, and the list goes on... European scoring is ridiculous in its inflation at times. A claim that really can't be made at 4CC.
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Hell yes as in better! I hope the clarification helps. Taking 3A out of any competition last year was like taking the fangs out of a tiger and expecting them to hunt.
 
Scott512 said:
Hell yes as in better! I hope the clarification helps. Taking 3A out of any competition last year was like taking the fangs out of a tiger and expecting them to hunt.
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Ok. But, I was speaking in terms of overall competition. At Europeans, only the top 4 are capable of scoring over 200. At 4CC, the top 10 have realistic chances of doing that at any competition. So, to me 4CC is a more deep competition, Europeans is just a repeat of Russian nationals.
 
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readernick said:
Ok. But, I was speaking in terms of overall competition. At Europeans, only the top 4 are capable of scoring over 200. At 4CC, the top 10 have realistic chances of doing that at any competition. So, to me 4CC is a more deep competition, Europeans is just a repeat of Russian nationals.
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For time being, yes. But a lot of East European girls are moving due West those days. The Gauss curve becomes flatter...
 
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