2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jeanie19]

Any list for junior ladies?

 

[sparklestan]

My predictions:

1. Trusova
2. Kostornaia
3. Khromykh
4. Shulskaya
5. Tsibinova
6. Konstantinova
7. Samodurova
8. Nugumanova
9. Tarakanova

 

[Jontor]

Wow stage four is stacked! I have to root for 9 people at once! (I really do hope Liza Nugumanova and Nastia Tarakanova do good though, I really want to see them at Nationals).

If Nugumanova and Tarakanova miss Nationals I will be devastated...

 

[Jontor]

I agree with you, only I would switch Khromykh and Kostornaia

The reason is that I'm not sure about Kosto having the 3A back yet and Maiia has her quad. She will have to be clean, though.

I was tempted to put Khromykh ahead of Kostornaia too. The uncertainty about her 3A is a factor, but if last year teached us anything, it was that the Russian judges loooves Kostornaia. She can have three falls, and the judges will shower her with GOEs and PCS anyway I think. But if Khromykh is clean - there might be a race! It will be very interesting how it all plays out.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I think Khromykh has a lot of nice qualities, but has she ever put together two clean programs in one competition? Personally, I'd be hesitant to bet on her over Kostornaia, even without the 3A.

 

[Jontor]

I think Khromykh has a lot of nice qualities, but has she ever put together two clean programs in one competition? Personally, I'd be hesitant to bet on her over Kostornaia, even without the 3A.

True, and has Khromykh ever landed her 4S clean in competition? I can't remember, but I don't think so. It is advantage Kostornaia for sure, I think, even without her 3A.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Does anyone know when the junior ladies list will be up?

 

[lariko]

True, and has Khromykh ever landed her 4S clean in competition? I can't remember, but I don't think so. It is advantage Kostornaia for sure, I think, even without her 3A.

Khromykh had never landed a clean quad in a competition. Not to mention that almost every jump she does land, at least in the last 2 years, i.e. triple and below, is visibly shaky. Whatever else she does, she is not an aesthetically pleasing jumper.

my personal wish would be for Shul’skaya to move ahead of Khromykh

 

[RatedPG]

People don’t seem to be predicting good things for Tarakanova. I hope she skates well enough to place within top 6 in this cup. She usually doesn’t have issues with under rotating jumps, so she can score well if she is clean. She did manage to get 190+ in juniors for three straight years with an international panel of judges and has also scored 200+ domestically in Russian Cup series the past two years. I’m hoping she is used to the chaos of switching coaches so she can quickly adapt to the ongoing situation. There was a video of her in training back in 2019 prior to her injury and Russian Nationals, where she was practicing triple axels at Snow Leopards ice rink. She fell in a dozen attempts and was not close to landing most of them. But, she managed to land at least three under rotated triple axels (3As) during that practice session. It would be my dream if she could learn a triple axel for next year. Given the current situation, I doubt she will attempt it this year. I’m most nervous for her to perform well here. Without Gubanova and Ksenia S, all my eggs are in her basket. If she places within top 9 at Nationals, she could garner a GP spot for next year. But, it will be tough with 4 junior contenders also competing in seniors for those spots next year. But, with the announcement of her skating here, I’m just happy to see her perform new programs.

 

[Jontor]

People don’t seem to be predicting good things for Tarakanova. I hope she skates well enough to place within top 6 in this cup. She usually doesn’t have issues with under rotating jumps, so she can score well if she is clean. She did manage to get 190+ in juniors for three straight years with an international panel of judges and has also scored 200+ domestically in Russian Cup series the past two years. I’m hoping she is used to the chaos of switching coaches so she can quickly adapt to the ongoing situation. There was a video of her in training back in 2019 prior to her injury and Russian Nationals, where she was practicing triple axels at Snow Leopards ice rink. She fell in a dozen attempts and was not close to landing most of them. But, she managed to land at least three under rotated triple axels (3As) during that practice session. It would be my dream if she could learn a triple axel for next year. Given the current situation, I doubt she will attempt it this year. I’m most nervous for her to perform well here. Without Gubanova and Ksenia S, all my eggs are in her basket. If she places within top 9 at Nationals, she could garner a GP spot for next year. But, it will be tough with 4 junior contenders also competing in seniors for those spots next year. But, with the announcement of her skating here, I’m just happy to see her perform new programs.

I agree, I want Tarakanova to do well as well. The thing is though, we know nothing about how her training has been this season, so I am not that optimistic that she might do well here. If she skates like she did last year at the Russian Cup though, she can even shoot for the podium!. She and Tsibinova are the wild cards for me this weekend, both can bomb - or surprise us.

 

[lopsilceci]

True, and has Khromykh ever landed her 4S clean in competition? I can't remember, but I don't think so. It is advantage Kostornaia for sure, I think, even without her 3A.

I guess we can also expect Aliona to get bonuses for spins and stsq. I don't think she will lose levels there and that would boost her score without a 3A too.

Maiia got level 2 step sequence in both the SP and FP at the first stage and she only got a bonus for one of her spins in the FP.

I guess the real fight will be between Sasha and Aliona for the gold.

 

[colormyworld240]

Honestly, I feel like Anna Shcherbakova is the best out of the current "top tier" seniors at interpreting music. She really appears to feel the music, whether it be more lyrical like Elegie or Perfume, or intense like Firebird or Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. I do find that her relatively weaker SS (weaker than her performance ability at least) takes away from my enjoyment of her programs, as well as the lackluster choreographer, but she is an excellent performer. Her facial expressions stay in character throughout a performance and she appears to be really feeling every note, every crescendo, every decrescendo. Truly fantastic! Now if she could get some better programs...

The thing about Anna is that we've seen extraordinary performances from her, so the difference between those and and what she has the season is glaring compared to her musicality. Her programs this season aren't bad, and the SP is even good, imo, but they're just too bland for someone with her talent. On less musical skaters, they could be the best programs for them - inoffensive and generic. But with Anna, when we've seen her versatility in expressing different kinds of music and choreography, like Perfume, Firebird, A Comme Amour, and Dreamcatcher, these ones just pale in comparison. She's great at using her face, but her real talent is the body movement, especially her posture changing with the music. Last season was good for her because she had a dramatic lyrical but unique SP where she could user her facial expressions and a very nuanced and accented FS (both in the softer first half and lively second half) where the expression was much more in her body movements than her face. This year, her programs are both less nuanced and much more similar to each other and also more generic.

I hope next season she gets a sassy maybe jazzy short and a beautifully nuanced free like a tango. Or even a classical free again, but a piece of music with highs, lows, and accents. She's a skater that doesn't need "help" in the form of generic lyrical programs, she needs vehicles to showcase her abilities.

 

[colormyworld240]

I looked through a bunch of stills of all three of them by just searching their names as hashtags on Instagram and I stand by my comment. In competition every one of Rika’s facial expressions is the same— fixed eyes, slightly parted lips, seeming to have apprehension... this doesn’t change until after the final pose is dropped. Shcherbakova is certainly better, but the range is not very broad.. and she has lyrical programs so I’d say if anything her expressions are fine, the programs themselves have just been too similar. She actually does a really good job with firebird, so we probably just don’t see all her ability because she is limited by the program concepts. Kostornaia certainly has the widest expression range. I could post some links here but rather I’d suggest doing what I did. It’ll be faster, and the comparisons more apparent. Interesting to note is the expressiveness of Kihira’s practice skates and exhibition programs, which never reaches the competitive ice. She is very nervous or focused on elements in competition which detract from interpretation. But that nerve not translating to ice for Anna and Aliona should be rewarded, and the difference makes sense for me, especially with Aliona.

As another said it is not the expression alone, but the expression certainly assists. In competitions where the margins are small, things like that can really make a difference.

If you're talking about her facial expressions this season, where the music/theme/choreography and overall mood are very similar in both her programs, which is a miss from Daniil, then this is the case. But if you look at her programs and performances prior to this season, I'd say Anna has an extremely wide range. A Comme Amour and Perfume both lean on the lyrical side, but her expressions in both are on opposite ends. Even if you look at the first half of Firebird, which I would also categorize as lyrical, it's different. Rondo and Firebird are both classical pieces with big sharp accents, but they don't look the same at all, although classical music is expressed much more in the body than the face which Anna does better, imo. And I know these examples are not recent ones, but her expression in Dreamcatcher is very different than Perfume despite both being dark themed lyrical programs, and she's done a jazzy piece very well when she was younger (which I'd love to see more of). And I want to point out that Anna never has the same expression throughout a program, it always changes with the music, even in the more one-note programs like this year's. However, her biggest strength is her musicality, the changes in her body movements with the music, not her facial expressions.

 

[ali0125]

She can have three falls, and the judges will shower her with GOEs and PCS anyway I think.

Aliona only had one fall the whole season last season (and one step out of her 3A) - don't think we need to have such assumption.

 

[Vilord]

The thing about Anna is that we've seen extraordinary performances from her, so the difference between those and and what she has the season is glaring compared to her musicality. Her programs this season aren't bad, and the SP is even good, imo, but they're just too bland for someone with her talent. On less musical skaters, they could be the best programs for them - inoffensive and generic. But with Anna, when we've seen her versatility in expressing different kinds of music and choreography, like Perfume, Firebird, A Comme Amour, and Dreamcatcher, these ones just pale in comparison. She's great at using her face, but her real talent is the body movement, especially her posture changing with the music. Last season was good for her because she had a dramatic lyrical but unique SP where she could user her facial expressions and a very nuanced and accented FS (both in the softer first half and lively second half) where the expression was much more in her body movements than her face. This year, her programs are both less nuanced and much more similar to each other and also more generic.

I hope next season she gets a sassy maybe jazzy short and a beautifully nuanced free like a tango. Or even a classical free again, but a piece of music with highs, lows, and accents. She's a skater that doesn't need "help" in the form of generic lyrical programs, she needs vehicles to showcase her abilities.

Another thing that make me feel like Annas program this season is generic is that so much of the choreo is recycled. The differences between last years short and this year is verry small. The entire program has exactly the same pattern on the ice (apart from small differences in the filler steps of the StSq). Let me break down how an Anna short apparenty is supposed to look like acording to Daniil.
-Start with a few opening choreographic moves. Gather speed in a clockwise circle on the left hand side (judges perspective) on the ice
- Do a spiral into a 2A and do another spiral out of it. (here they just swapped which spiral goes befor vs after the 2A)
-Gather some new speed around the corner of the right hand side of the rink. Here is probably the biggest difference as they swithced skating direction from counter clockwise to clockwise.
- Do the little jump thing where she changes legs (I actually like this move)
-Do a backwards outside 3turn to a mohawk into a 3F. here the exit transitions was actualy changed from yet another spiral to a series of steps and a leg kick.
- Go directly from this into a spin in the middle of the leftmost 3rd of the ice.
-Gather speed around the leftmost corner in the opposite skating direction as after the 2A. Counter clockwise this year clockwise last year.
- Do a spiral strait across the ice (on the left leg)
- Directly following the spiral mohawk, change of edge, crossover, change of edge 3Lz+3Lo.
-Step forward onto the left leg and do a small jump rotating half a revolution then directly into another spin (she missed this at the last russian cup so I whent back to the test skates video)
-StSq. These are actually quite different the clusters are the same but the rest is quite different.
- The last spin to end of the program in the center.

The spinns have changed order from FCSp, LSp, CCoSp to CCoSp, FCSp, LSp but the spin positions remain the same. This however is verry common so I wont give them shade for this
Overall I find this years music choice quite uniteresting the music is the same allthrough the program to my eras. previous years programs have had lots of interesting accents that Anna allways used.

But on the point of recycling content I get that many skaters use the same transitions into jumps since that is probably what they are most comftable with like the steps into the 3F and 3Lz I described above. But to me the rest is just far to similair and makes me feel like Daniil picked out the new music and insted of designing a program from scratch just took the old program and thought "what do I need to change to fit this new music".
This is more formuleic then when I make 8 novice programs in 8 weeks and I dont consider myself to be a verry inspired choreographer of programs.

 

[JazzUp]

1TV clip about Anya and Dasha:

 

[NAOTMAA]

If you're talking about her facial expressions this season, where the music/theme/choreography and overall mood are very similar in both her programs, which is a miss from Daniil, then this is the case. But if you look at her programs and performances prior to this season, I'd say Anna has an extremely wide range. A Comme Amour and Perfume both lean on the lyrical side, but her expressions in both are on opposite ends. Even if you look at the first half of Firebird, which I would also categorize as lyrical, it's different. Rondo and Firebird are both classical pieces with big sharp accents, but they don't look the same at all, although classical music is expressed much more in the body than the face which Anna does better, imo. And I know these examples are not recent ones, but her expression in Dreamcatcher is very different than Perfume despite both being dark themed lyrical programs, and she's done a jazzy piece very well when she was younger (which I'd love to see more of). And I want to point out that Anna never has the same expression throughout a program, it always changes with the music, even in the more one-note programs like this year's. However, her biggest strength is her musicality, the changes in her body movements with the music, not her facial expressions.

A lot of skating fans in general seem to be rather dismissive about body movements when it comes to artistry and musicality. They always talk about facial expressions as if that's the main indication of being artistic or not. It's why everyone hold's Mariah Bell's empty programs as a benchmark for artistry these days because she uses her face (frankly most of her expressions are very samey one note as well but it's all in your face so it doesn't matter).

Another example would have been in pairs T/M vs S/Z way back. T/M were called by fans as dull and duller just because of their mostly blank facial expressions but they ignored their sublime body movements. S/Z who used their faces mostly were seen as artistically superior.

I suppose facial expressions are more audience friendly and easier to grasp program concept wise and doesn't require as much thought so they consider it better

 

[plushyfan]

Kostornaya in the "Pirouette" Magazine https://www.instagram.com/p/CHORgHbpfwR/ she gave it when Tatjana Flade was at the Plushenko Academy probably one month ago
Kosti:
"There were some problems. Athletes like me, Anna and Kamila can’t train together with children born in 2010. You have to explain to them that the older girls will not be considerate. My suggestions were not accepted. So I called Sergei Alexandrovich and he told me to think twice before the move but he helped me make the change (to Plushenko) I also didn’t like my program (created at Tutberidze school) which I said more than once.
I really like the new program, I find the new program very suitable for me, the lyrics correspond to what is happening in my life. Now I feel happy, satisfied and ready to train for new victories and goals."

 

[halulupu]

Another thing that make me feel like Annas program this season is generic is that so much of the choreo is recycled. The differences between last years short and this year is verry small. The entire program has exactly the same pattern on the ice (apart from small differences in the filler steps of the StSq). Let me break down how an Anna short apparenty is supposed to look like acording to Daniil.
-Start with a few opening choreographic moves. Gather speed in a clockwise circle on the left hand side (judges perspective) on the ice
- Do a spiral into a 2A and do another spiral out of it. (here they just swapped which spiral goes befor vs after the 2A)
-Gather some new speed around the corner of the right hand side of the rink. Here is probably the biggest difference as they swithced skating direction from counter clockwise to clockwise.
- Do the little jump thing where she changes legs (I actually like this move)
-Do a backwards outside 3turn to a mohawk into a 3F. here the exit transitions was actualy changed from yet another spiral to a series of steps and a leg kick.
- Go directly from this into a spin in the middle of the leftmost 3rd of the ice.
-Gather speed around the leftmost corner in the opposite skating direction as after the 2A. Counter clockwise this year clockwise last year.
- Do a spiral strait across the ice (on the left leg)
- Directly following the spiral mohawk, change of edge, crossover, change of edge 3Lz+3Lo.
-Step forward onto the left leg and do a small jump rotating half a revolution then directly into another spin (she missed this at the last russian cup so I whent back to the test skates video)
-StSq. These are actually quite different the clusters are the same but the rest is quite different.
- The last spin to end of the program in the center.

The spinns have changed order from FCSp, LSp, CCoSp to CCoSp, FCSp, LSp but the spin positions remain the same. This however is verry common so I wont give them shade for this
Overall I find this years music choice quite uniteresting the music is the same allthrough the program to my eras. previous years programs have had lots of interesting accents that Anna allways used.

But on the point of recycling content I get that many skaters use the same transitions into jumps since that is probably what they are most comftable with like the steps into the 3F and 3Lz I described above. But to me the rest is just far to similair and makes me feel like Daniil picked out the new music and insted of designing a program from scratch just took the old program and thought "what do I need to change to fit this new music".
This is more formuleic then when I make 8 novice programs in 8 weeks and I dont consider myself to be a verry inspired choreographer of programs.

Quite a lot of change I see there

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Honestly Anna's SP this season is good, but it is way too similar to Perfume. I too, would like to see her with a different style. Not just her, but Alyona and Sasha too (looks like it's sort of happening for them now). Adelya is probably one of the few Tutberidze girls who has actually been given vastly different types of programs. Give me some jazz! Some tango! Some epic classical symphony!