Kiira Korpi interview - Positive and abusive coaching

[divan]

Interview with Kiira Korpi about positive vs abusive coaching for Skate Ukraine.


Russian voiceover (на русском)

Киира Корпи – Позитивное и насильственное тренерство

В этом выпуске Skate Ukraine Academy мы поговорим о позитивном и насильственном тренерстве с олимпийской фигуристкой, пятикратной чемпионкой Финляндии и трёх...

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Ukrainian voiceover

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Interview transcript (English/Ukrainian/Russian)

Kiira Korpi – Positive and abusive coaching | Skate Ukraine

skateukraine.org

 

[el henry]

Thank you for posting, I always find Kiira so thoughtful and even handed, and with interesting insights.

I also had no idea that her father was an Olympic medal winning hockey coach And that he has come around to say, maybe the methods we used for coaching were not the best and maybe it would have been better if we had access to positive coaching techniques

 

[[email protected]]

As for me, it is exactly the opposite. I made an effort to read her interview. It is empty, empty - the opposite of full. At least she did not tell the names like the last time. She just said "some coaches". Brian Orser who was praised by her might have been selected as the opposite of those "some coaches whose names we won't tell ". All in all it was just a waste of time for me.

 

[divan]

As for me, it is exactly the opposite. I made an effort to read her interview. It is empty, empty - the opposite of full. At least she did not tell the names like the last time. She just said "some coaches". Brian Orser who was praised by her might have been selected as the opposite of those "some coaches whose names we won't tell ". All in all it was just a waste of time for me.

What can we do better next time discussing this topic so it doesn't feel empty for you?
Any particular aspect that needs more elaboration in your opinion?

 

[Edwin]

Is Korpii a qualified coach?

 

[flanker]

As for me, it is exactly the opposite. I made an effort to read her interview. It is empty, empty - the opposite of full. At least she did not tell the names like the last time. She just said "some coaches". Brian Orser who was praised by her might have been selected as the opposite of those "some coaches whose names we won't tell ". All in all it was just a waste of time for me.

I agree, rather dull chit-chat. If I don't bring the names of coaches and skaters which would inevitably bring dispute, I see as a main problem of such public statements as that interview, that people use words like "abusing/abusive", "positive" or "negative" and many other terms without even defining it. It's easy, because when you just enter the room and say "I'm against abusing", everyone starts clapping and nodding, "yes, that's right, something should be done about it, it's like an epidemy" and other ways of how the "sophisticated community" speaks. Just till someone stands up and asks "what precisely do you mean by that". And than they realize that just coming to the conclusion about the symptoms of basic terms on which this is all based is hard if not impossible.

 

[flanker]

Is Korpii a qualified coach?

Good question.

 

[Harriet]

That’s a really interesting interview; thank you for linking to the transcripts!

 

[el henry]

I have no idea why Kiira should need to be a "qualified coach" (whatever that is, wouldn't qualifications be different in different places?) to have an opinion.

Many persons who had opinions on the Karolyi Ranch, for example, were not "qualified coaches" but simply athletes and interested parties. Best if their opinions had been heeded earlier. And Kiira most definitely defines abuse in the article, at least in the English translation.

Thank you Kiira for continuing to be brave enough to speak up

 

[Amei]

I have no idea why Kiira should need to be a "qualified coach" (whatever that is, wouldn't qualifications be different in different places?) to have an opinion.

Many persons who had opinions on the Karolyi Ranch, for example, were not "qualified coaches" but simply athletes and interested parties. Best if their opinions had been heeded earlier. And Kiira most definitely defines abuse in the article, at least in the English translation.

Thank you Kiira for continuing to be brave enough to speak up

I'm fine with her speaking up as long as she sticks to coaching situations she knows; what irked me about her last season was speaking about athletes/coaches potentially being abused or abusive while acknowledging she never talked to those parties.

 

[divan]

I see as a main problem of such public statements as that interview that people use words like "abusing/abusive", "positive" or "negative" and many other terms without even defining it

Thank you, that's a good point. There are some examples of what abusive means, but you're right – we didn't go through definitions. We were actually planning to do so, but interview went a bit off-script. Also Kiira has a couple of great live-chat videos on Instagram where she talks with her guests about definitions and types of abuse, check out those.

Just right off my head what I've witnessed a lot and what I mean by abusive coaching methods:
- yelling (often literally screaming) at kids;
- hitting them with skate guards;
- name-calling skaters;
- denying attention / ignoring;
- humiliating in front of other kids;
- smoking and exhaling smoke right into the face of a skater (to show dominance, I suppose);

I personally know many young skaters who dropped out of figure skating because of these methods.

But it's important to keep in mind that those are just visual symptoms of the larger problem underneath – the whole approach and mentality behind coach-athlete relationship.

I don't even want to go into the list of prolific sexual abuse I know about and things like normalized butt-slapping and sexual jokes towards underage female kids (coming from male coaches, of course). And I'm afraid to think what I haven't seen yet, what's behind the curtains.

If I don't bring the names of coaches and skaters

Here I disagree, though. Names don't matter. Many names I keep in mind you probably have never even heard. This is systemic problem, and the goal is not to change the particular person, but to show a new generation that there is another way of doing it.

And another important clarification – this whole topic is not just about coaches (and I'm sorry if it looks like we're focusing solely on coaches). It's about the whole culture – parents, who see their children as a chance to become an Olympic parent and push hard on children, officials, who're focusing exclusively on the medal count (again, I'm more familiar with situation in post-soviet countries, your experience may vary), kids, who're raised in the environment that normalizes abuse (so they accept it and think it's normal), and, of course, coaches, who're under pressure to deliver results and don't have any organizations or examples around to learn from how to do things differently. It's a complex systemic problem.

 

[[email protected]]

What can we do better next time discussing this topic so it doesn't feel empty for you?
Any particular aspect that needs more elaboration in your opinion?

Did I say "empty" about the discussion? It was about the interview. Many words about her idea that some coaching is right and some coaching is wrong. What coaching is wrong she made it clear the last time when she expressed "concerns about Anna Scherbakova". And what coaching is right she said now. Why waste so much space with empty words when what you mean is just "I like Brian and I don't like Eteri"? Aha, I know why. At least last year she was writing her thesis to get a B.A. and she thought that she created "a theory of right and wrong coaching in figure skating". Good for her. But she knows nothing. I could understand if this was done by some real athlete who went through real ups and downs with various coaches and coach techniques. Mao, Yuna, Yulia, Zhenya, Caro - you name them. But Kiira Korpi?

And one more thing. There is a saying about hypocrits in Russian. It's something around to eat the fish and at the same time not be involved in the killing. Exactly my family situation this Friday when I cooked the live crab. My wife almost cried when she saw the creature still moving. But in the end she ate it and said that it was very tasty. This is the reality. There exist high performance sports in this reality. They are not about "purpose justifies the means" - there are certain limits there. If you take doping and caught you will be banned - that's the most important one. There are general laws as well. You cannot sexually abuse neither minors nor adults in principle - that's the crime. If something like that happens it is the issue much broader than coaching in figure skating. I have never heard that sexual encounters will improve the performance on ice that's why certain coaches in certain countries revert to this "remedy". It is a crime that has nothing to do with figure skating per se. The same is true about physical abuse. Kids have to be protected in the society. There is no need in specific actions in the specific situation of figure skating.

But outside doping and breaking the laws high level sports are about achievements and money. This is so obvious to me that Kiira is just a hypocrite on her personal mission that I find it ludicrous to bring further examples. I will do though, not to those who are on the mission as well - they won't listen to me no matter what I say. To others.

Bringing up some imaginary "morale grounds" and trying to instill them in competitive sports is 100% hypocrisy. There is little morale in principle when one has to pick 1 Olympic champion out of thousands contenders. In such a situation within the accepted norms and rules anything that brings the result is good. Otherwise, just ban the sports. Ban boxing - they hit each other's faces with 1000 pound hits. Of course, ban MMA - they kick people in the head. Ban football and hockey. Ban, ban, ban.....

And yet another thing. Kiira was an average athlete. She would be in the second hundred in the Russian field if she was Russian. If she found some injustice in Finnish approaches - she should be specific about that. If she believes that the US system is full of abuse - fine, limit yourself to that - you live there. But her target is clearly seen behind the lines. Eteri. There is the realm of big time hate around Tutberidze. Having a former small-time skater from Finland joining the choir for me is.... I thought of "disgusting" but no, not disgusting. It would be if they were comparable. No, they are not. It's cheap - trying to make the name critising the great. It's similar to bringing the Russian champion in sky jumps who would start to give interviews on sky jump coaching in Poland, Germany, Finland, and Japan. All the sky jumping world would laugh out loud. But here some people are not laughing. They support Kiira in her "crusade". Isn't it obvious, why?

 

[divan]

...when what you mean is just "I like Brian and I don't like Eteri"? ...
...she thought that she created "a theory of right and wrong coaching in figure skating"...
...she knows nothing....
...if this was done by some real athlete who went through real ups and downs with various coaches and coach techniques. Mao, Yuna, Yulia, Zhenya, Caro - you name them. But Kiira Korpi?...

I'm impressed by how well you think you know what Kiira thinks, means and knows, and who is a "real athlete" and who is not.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm impressed by how well you think you know what Kiira thinks, means and knows, and who is a "real athlete" and who is not.

Hiding behind the generic phrase that no one knows what the other person thinks is quite convenient. But there are words and there are facts. And there are conclusions about thoughts based on words and facts. And if the thoughts were different than the conclusions it is not obvious whose issue that is.

 

[Edwin]

https://skateukraine.org/ interesting ....

Do they think they increase their profile by allowing Kiira 'Koncerned' Korpii to vent through their channels? Obviously, miss Korpii takes any channel to illuminate us ....

How about Deryugina's school for starters, to stay close to home?

 

[anonymoose_au]

I like how a large number of posters here are foaming at the mouth at the very idea of questioning certain coaches methods, but have no issue whatsoever hurling insults at Kiira and accusing her of acting not out of concern for fellow athletes but because she's some total no-hoper who's jealous.

Perhaps you're all protesting too much? Perhaps you think verbal abuse and humiliation is justified in the pursuit of "greatness". You all must be fun to work with.

 

[Alex65]

I have nothing to argue with you, samkrut. And I am not a supporter of Kiira at all. I will just a note that Tutberidze has made a lot of efforts to make herself a target for such discourses. And it's not just about envy of the success of her athletes in sports.

 

[[email protected]]

I have nothing to argue with you, samkrut. And I am not a supporter of Kiira at all. I will just a note that Tutberidze has made a lot of efforts to make herself a target for such discourses. And it's not just about envy of the success of her athletes in sports.

With Kiira Korpi, of course, it's not about the envy - there are other people who would fall in the group combined by this word. And most of them are in Russia.

 

[divan]

Do they think they increase their profile by allowing Kiira Korpi to vent through their channels?

No.

We just don't have anyone in Russian-speaking figure skating community bold enough to publicly talk about this topic (a lot of people talk in their kitchens in private, though).

 

[Skatesocs]

It is not apparent to me what the reason behind Korpi's motives being questioned is. To me those are clear - to talk about an important issue.

If someone has further complaints about the contents of the interview, I'd love to read those.