2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

I would assume that it is much better to actually say you have Covid so those who have had close contact with you can also test and see their results. If you just lied and said it was a cold or something you would be infecting dozens of others and those others, not knowing they have contracted Covid, would go out and infect dozens of others too.

Good point and I think that's been one of the problems worldwide in 2020 that has caused the saying to spread and mushroom out of control. Of course if you don't get covid-19 teams athletes at least seem to recover better than they would from pneumonia.

Liza had pneumonia 2 years ago and now she has covid. This is crazy I hope she shakes It Off.

 

[Scott512]

December 10, Thursday

11.00 - 13.20 - Women. Short program (Ice preparation after 2nd warm-up)
13.20 - 13.35 - Ice preparation
13.35 - 14.25 - Pair skating. Short program
14.25 - 14.40 - Ice preparation
14.40 - 17.15 - Men. Short program (Ice preparation after 2nd warm-up)

All times local Sankt Peterburg time obviously.

No changes in the participants list yet, according to the article I've linked to above, Sof'ya Samodurova is training, while the other Mishin skaters sit in quarantine.
Today, I've observed that masks discipline is a little better, but social distancing not. Many coaches still remove their masks when talking directly into the faces of their pupils.

Show SS be allowed to skate? If her teammates have it how can she not have it? Or maybe it just hasn't come to the surface yet.

 

[Scott512]

Darn.

If RusFed is kind though, they can count Rostelecom Cup as a Russian Stage result - then Tuktamysheva and Guliakova are both definitely through to Nationals.

You are thinking out of the box and I like it. You should be working with mr. Kogan.

 

[Scott512]

Given her age and fitness level, she's overwhelmingly likely to feel better in a few days. I'm much more worried about the coaches and other older adults on her team.

True.

 

[Scott512]

It is not.
As of today it is a much more harder competition, but it's status is lesser than an EU championship by definition.
It is for the skaters, who's winner name will be listed among the greates skaters ever, and so it is especially for the federation that can find confirmation of the excellence of his skaters only trough international wins.
It is sad that there are so few international events in skating.
You can be the greater skater ever born, but if you skate in your backyard nobody will ever recognized it.

A lot of skaters are heading to the backyard.

It will be interesting to see how these big academies handle things and such as sambo-70 will they instead of having a couple hundred skaters skate a day and all four disciplines or whatever will they break it up at somebody gets the Skate 3 or 4 times a week maybe longer so you don't have a maximum crowd at the rink? It's time for Plan B if there is a plan B for kogan and the fed and I doubt there is a plan B.

 

[silveruskate]

Can Russian Nationals become the Cup Finals and the Cup Finals become Nationals?

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I don't advocate for a suspension of competition, just adherence to the following rules:

Oops, I will now eat my words. Didn't count on the situation getting out of hand so quickly!
I think at this point it's too late and the best choice is to postpone or cancel many of the competitions because they're clearly incompetent at sticking to sensible rules. Fat chance they do though.

Attending the Rostelekom banquet and/or Leonova's party with the already infected but still asymptomatic Aliyev and quite probably others from rinks where people are infected ..

Doesn't have to be the banquet (although the risk for that was higher). Even at the competition itself, athletes were warming up and waiting to go on the ice without their masks. At the gala finale they were all standing close together in a line and doing a final lap of honour which is enough time to allow spread. P.S. not to point the finger at Aliev, kids are great asymptomatic spreaders, hard to test reliably, and most of the 'ladies' qualify as such based on their age. We have as much reason to suspect Valieva too even if she never shows symptoms. But it's not about the skaters, it's about leadership - who told them it was ok to take their masks off in close proximity to others?

RusFed's strategy seems to depend on negative testing prior to competition participation. That's like depending on the calendar method to not get pregnant. High risk of incorrect implementation (false negative, no pre-competition quarantine period) means you must have several layers of protection in case one fails. Some people have accidental babies, Russian skaters have accidental COVID.

 

[Lzbee]

why would you give them kudos for being honest and confirming its covid? I think I know the answer to this question but I'll wait for your answer.

Lz all the skaters getting sick is just so shocking but it shouldn't be because people testing positive for this virus is happening all over the world in a Million and these athletes as great as they are in his great shape as they are with unbelievable immune systems are not immune to this virus obviously.

Because the professor himself has said that people are ashamed to admit they have it so it's brave of them to go public. If the people (skaters/coaches/officials/fans) don't know the full extent of how many around them are being affected then they'll never take covid seriously.

 

[1111bm]

...all the skaters getting sick is just so shocking but it shouldn't be because people testing positive for this virus is happening all over the world in a Million and these athletes as great as they are in his great shape as they are with unbelievable immune systems are not immune to this virus obviously.

Quite the contrary, actually:

Immune system adaptation in elite athletes - PubMed

Although elite athletes are not clinically immune deficient, it is possible that the combined effects of small changes in several immune parameters may compromise resistance to common minor illnesses. Although it is possible that immune depression linked with prolonged intensive training may...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/icb.2015.103

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17461391.2018.1449895

 

[Scott512]

Quite the contrary, actually:

Immune system adaptation in elite athletes - PubMed

Although elite athletes are not clinically immune deficient, it is possible that the combined effects of small changes in several immune parameters may compromise resistance to common minor illnesses. Although it is possible that immune depression linked with prolonged intensive training may...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/icb.2015.103

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17461391.2018.1449895

That's amazing and not in a good way. But it explains some things why so many athletes are getting covid.

 

[[email protected]]

Fluture. That was a bit harsh. I am sure the Russians are very aware of the pandemic. But they are trying, like all of us, coping and finding a way to live through this nightmare. Maybe the measures they are taking are not enough in your liking. But who are we to criticize other countries' policies? We all do the best as we can. And it's not like any government is wanting the virus to spread. This whole mask situation for instance is still up for debate, it's interesting that the WHO only last year published a study that there is no proof that they are of any help at all (they have removed that study now). So we get different directions and advices from different countries. That's because, unfortunatelly, the virus has gone political. What's left for us people to do is to THINK for ourselves. So, I'd say, take care out there - and wash your hands.

I don't want to start coronavirus related war in this thread. But I don't like preaching from the so-called "higher moral grounds". In the first place, this whole "pandemia business" is quite controversial, to say the least. Moscow mayor claims that half of Moscovites have antibodies by now. This means that the official mortality rate is very different from the reality. From a third to a half of my friends and colleagues have or had this condition already. My wife and my younger son right now are going through the coronavirus infection. It is no worse than a regular flu with the exception of taste and smell loss. Once again, it's just my emotional response to multiple "advises" on what Russian Fed, skaters, and general public should do or should not do. I guess, we can figure it out ourselves.

 

[nussnacker]

I don't want to start coronavirus related war in this thread. But I don't like preaching from the so-called "higher moral grounds". In the first place, this whole "pandemia business" is quite controversial, to say the least. Moscow mayor claims that half of Moscovites have antibodies by now. This means that the official mortality rate is very different from the reality. From a third to a half of my friends and colleagues have or had this condition already. My wife and my younger son right now are going through the coronavirus infection. It is no worse than a regular flu with the exception of taste and smell loss. Once again, it's just my emotional response to multiple "advises" on what Russian Fed, skaters, and general public should do or should not do. I guess, we can figure it out ourselves.

I'm glad your close ones are fine, however it is not a regular flu by any means, not for everyone at least. A close friend of mine in his 30s, (healthy, goes to the gym regularly) was hit very very badly by coronavirus, he was in intensive care and had to grasp for life. He survived, but suffered 60% scaring and damage to his lung tissue. No need to say that those days and weeks in intensive care were incredibly scary for him and his friends and family. Moreover, this year I have unfortunately seen several people pass away due to this disease.

I would wish no one had to go through something like this, it is a disease that will cause various responses in every single case, but because it isn't severe in 100% cases, and a lot might have a light form, doesn't mean people should be less careless with it. If you're betting on getting an immune response, it's a gamble on whether you'll have a light or severe form of the disease. I don't know how much athletes, who perform in an endurance sport, are willing to bet having possible damage to their lungs.
Aside from that, there are possibility of long term effects which haven't been researched yet.

I believe people here wish nothing but the best for the athletes and coaches, and seeing how they one by one get infected is really worrying and sad. I need no competitions or shows, if it comes at a cost of those athletes getting ill and going through pneumonia.

 

[Amei]

I saw a post on Instagram that Shcherbakova was back to full training today.

why would you give them kudos for being honest and confirming its covid? I think I know the answer to this question but I'll wait for your answer.

Lz all the skaters getting sick is just so shocking but it shouldn't be because people testing positive for this virus is happening all over the world in a Million and these athletes as great as they are in his great shape as they are with unbelievable immune systems are not immune to this virus obviously.

I am considered to be in good physical shape/conditioning, obviously probably not as much as a professional athlete like these skaters and I have an autoimmune disease, my immune system is awful, so no just because you are physically in good shape doesn't mean that you are automatically going to have a good immune system that can protect you from a virus.

Given her age and fitness level, she's overwhelmingly likely to feel better in a few days. I'm much more worried about the coaches and other older adults on her team.

I know more than a few people who are in the age or health demographic that makes COVID "dangerous" for them, and they were all fine, majority of people I know that have had it felt rough for 3-4 days and then they felt fine. I think media hysteria is the biggest problem with Covid, is it contagious - yes, can it be bad for some people - yes, but I don't think it's as near the violent super killer that the hysteria is paints it as. People that are super-stressing over the possibility of getting it are probably doing more damage to their health with the stress than what Covid actually does.

 

[Lzbee]

Russia reported 19% more deaths in June 2020 than in June 2019. Not all were reported to be related to Covid19 but if your hospitals are at max capacity with covid patients then it's essentially the same.
(Source: Bloomberg)

The thing is, outside of deaths, which is the easier number to determine, there are still many many people who have survived but are dealing with severe lasting consequences.

There are some basic precautions that are not difficult to follow which would significantly decrease the chance of spread until a vaccine is available. Life doesn't have to stop but people can easily be more careful to protect those around them.

Anyway, this is the last I'll say of this. I hope all those affected recover quickly and completely.

 

[1111bm]

I need no competitions or shows, if it comes at a cost of those athletes getting ill and going through pneumonia.

I don't think it's the competitions or shows that caused them to catch it, it's their careless behaviour by not abiding to social distancing rules and mask wearing etc.
(and I'm gonna guess the first ones probably didn't even get infected at skating events or training sessions, but mostly in their spare and private life outside of skating)

Which is what's so irritating about it. We could have all of it, the competitions and so on, if everyone made their contribution and looked out a bit more for themselves and others.

Neither I nor anyone close to me has gotten infected yet, and we're not even super strict with the guidelines (I certainly am not), just a little more caution and restraint during social interactions and almost zero travel.
(yeah, this is anecdotal and could just be pure luck and I'm not saying everyone who got infected brought it on themselves, but you can surely reduce the likelihood of getting infected by adjusting your behaviour)

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I know more than a few people who are in the age or health demographic that makes COVID "dangerous" for them, and they were all fine, majority of people I know that have had it felt rough for 3-4 days and then they felt fine. I think media hysteria is the biggest problem with Covid, is it contagious - yes, can it be bad for some people - yes, but I don't think it's as near the violent super killer that the hysteria is paints it as. People that are super-stressing over the possibility of getting it are probably doing more damage to their health with the stress than what Covid actually does.

I also know a number of people who got sick and recovered. Obviously that isn't the case for a lot of people, and I never want to minimize this deadly disease. And while it isn't true in every case, the vast majority of the time someone like Liza recovers very quickly given that she doesn't have any of the major risk factors like obesity and old age. A lot of athletes have bounced back quickly following a positive test and, unless she is more vulnerable based on other health characteristics we don't know about, I'd expect her to be fine soon (if she's even exhibited symptoms at all).

 

[flanker]

I'm glad your close ones are fine, however it is not a regular flu by any means, not for everyone at least. A close friend of mine in his 30s, (healthy, goes to the gym regularly) was hit very very badly by coronavirus, he was in intensive care and had to grasp for life. He survived, but suffered 60% scaring and damage to his lung tissue. No need to say that those days and weeks in intensive care were incredibly scary for him and his friends and family. Moreover, this year I have unfortunately seen several people pass away due to this disease.

I would wish no one had to go through something like this, it is a disease that will cause various responses in every single case, but because it isn't severe in 100% cases, and a lot might have a light form, doesn't mean people should be less careless with it. If you're betting on getting an immune response, it's a gamble on whether you'll have a light or severe form of the disease. I don't know how much athletes, who perform in an endurance sport, are willing to bet having possible damage to their lungs.
Aside from that, there are possibility of long term effects which haven't been researched yet.

I believe people here wish nothing but the best for the athletes and coaches, and seeing how they one by one get infected is really worrying and sad. I need no competitions or shows, if it comes at a cost of those athletes getting ill and going through pneumonia.

I disagree with the word "regular flu" how it is so often used in this relation. I had this "regular flu" once in my life twenty years ago, when I was in truly superb physical condition that time and I never ever felt worse than that time. People talk about flu and mistake it for some ordinary cold. This is probably why I so much don't like all the comparisons.

As for the athletes, I think the first thing here is their own wish and decision. And figure skating in Russia is not taking place in vacuum, it's not like that is the only sport event in the world or in the Europe. There is football or hockey all over the Europe and in Russia of course, and not just national competitions but international as well. There is skiing and biathlon. Many people here speak as if there was no other athlete (or big part of the team) positive with covid. Don't be isolated in figure skating and don't think this is somehow exceptional in this sport and in Russia. It's very far from such picture. Whatever FFKKR does, it's not morally worse than what any other sport union does all over the world in this moment. It's maybe not high standard, but I don't even expect that.

 

[el henry]

I don't want to start coronavirus related war in this thread. But I don't like preaching from the so-called "higher moral grounds". In the first place, this whole "pandemia business" is quite controversial, to say the least. Moscow mayor claims that half of Moscovites have antibodies by now. This means that the official mortality rate is very different from the reality. From a third to a half of my friends and colleagues have or had this condition already. My wife and my younger son right now are going through the coronavirus infection. It is no worse than a regular flu with the exception of taste and smell loss. Once again, it's just my emotional response to multiple "advises" on what Russian Fed, skaters, and general public should do or should not do. I guess, we can figure it out ourselves.

I wish your family a speedy recovery You are very very lucky that this is their response to COVID, and I am glad. It is far from a typical response. In no way, shape or form is COVID the same as the flu.

I do not say that as "preaching from a moral ground" but as someone with relatives in the health care field in a country where some misled people unfortunately believe that you can get "immunity" (wrong scientifically) and that it is no worse than the flu (wrong scientifically). I make no observations about countries as a whole.

I wish every athlete and every coach the best and I hope that they all observe safety precautions that will keep them healthy.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm glad your close ones are fine, however it is not a regular flu by any means, not for everyone at least. A close friend of mine in his 30s, (healthy, goes to the gym regularly) was hit very very badly by coronavirus, he was in intensive care and had to grasp for life. He survived, but suffered 60% scaring and damage to his lung tissue. No need to say that those days and weeks in intensive care were incredibly scary for him and his friends and family. Moreover, this year I have unfortunately seen several people pass away due to this disease.

I would wish no one had to go through something like this, it is a disease that will cause various responses in every single case, but because it isn't severe in 100% cases, and a lot might have a light form, doesn't mean people should be less careless with it. If you're betting on getting an immune response, it's a gamble on whether you'll have a light or severe form of the disease. I don't know how much athletes, who perform in an endurance sport, are willing to bet having possible damage to their lungs.
Aside from that, there are possibility of long term effects which haven't been researched yet.

I believe people here wish nothing but the best for the athletes and coaches, and seeing how they one by one get infected is really worrying and sad. I need no competitions or shows, if it comes at a cost of those athletes getting ill and going through pneumonia.

Yes, may be, I don't know.... I have seen so many various concerns during my almost 7 year tenure here. Forced diet, overtraining, health issues neglect, bad coaching practices (when we hear immediately about "good coaching practices" of one famous Canadian person), etc. I am sure that at least some of those concerns are sincere and genuine. Still, I don't like when rules of one community are applied to another as if they are universal. Once again, I am not for war - the thread and the forum are inappropriate places for that. I just want to say that we know nothing about this illness and how it is transmitted. I have an acquaintance who was ovezealous in following the rules - masks, gloves everywhere, close to 0 contacts with the outer world, etc. Yet he somehow contracted coronavirus. I and my wife had a brief encounter with a person who was diagnosed later on - surely, no kissing and hugging. She got it. I am still fine 12 days after the initial contact. And, yes, we do not shy each other including a full physical contact which is a custom with normal spouses. Well, once again, we on this board know nothing about coronavius outside what we are told and what happenned to us and those whom we know. And I am sure that figure skating people in Russia know what they are doing and assume responsibility for their actions.

 

[Scott512]

I saw a post on Instagram that Shcherbakova was back to full training today.



I am considered to be in good physical shape/conditioning, obviously probably not as much as a professional athlete like these skaters and I have an autoimmune disease, my immune system is awful, so no just because you are physically in good shape doesn't mean that you are automatically going to have a good immune system that can protect you from a virus.



I know more than a few people who are in the age or health demographic that makes COVID "dangerous" for them, and they were all fine, majority of people I know that have had it felt rough for 3-4 days and then they felt fine. I think media hysteria is the biggest problem with Covid, is it contagious - yes, can it be bad for some people - yes, but I don't think it's as near the violent super killer that the hysteria is paints it as. People that are super-stressing over the possibility of getting it are probably doing more damage to their health with the stress than what Covid actually does.

I agree with you 100% specially about the media hysteria. But I knew the media politicizing covid-19 was coming but it's been even worse than I imagined.

If Anna is back to full training that's the quickest recovery from pneumonia I've ever heard of in my life.