2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 608 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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I wish your family a speedy recovery :pray:You are very very lucky that this is their response to COVID, and I am glad. It is far from a typical response. In no way, shape or form is COVID the same as the flu.:frown:

I do not say that as "preaching from a moral ground" but as someone with relatives in the health care field in a country where some misled people unfortunately believe that you can get "immunity" (wrong scientifically) and that it is no worse than the flu (wrong scientifically). I make no observations about countries as a whole.

I wish every athlete and every coach the best and I hope that they all observe safety precautions that will keep them healthy.
Thank you for the supportive words. I know that there is a toll. On the other hand, many and I mean dozens of people from my close circle got coronavirus disease. The worst scenario was with a pregnant lady who said that it was as if she was beaten by sticks - she delivered a healthy baby after all. Yes, loss of senses is universal and does not happen with flu. But in the end of the day in my circle so far there have been no severe cases. And it tells me that the real Russian figures are way higher than reported. And if this thing is unavoidable what sense it makes to try to avoid it at all costs?
 
Russia reported 19% more deaths in June 2020 than in June 2019. Not all were reported to be related to Covid19 but if your hospitals are at max capacity with covid patients then it's essentially the same.
(Source: Bloomberg)

The thing is, outside of deaths, which is the easier number to determine, there are still many many people who have survived but are dealing with severe lasting consequences.

There are some basic precautions that are not difficult to follow which would significantly decrease the chance of spread until a vaccine is available. Life doesn't have to stop but people can easily be more careful to protect those around them.

Anyway, this is the last I'll say of this. I hope all those affected recover quickly and completely.
I likewise don't plan to go on. I could say a lot about your numbers but I won't. One thing that is 100% contrary to the accepted logic is my personal case. Those so-called precautions.... We don't know the correlation between masks wearing, social distancing, etc. We are just guessing that it exists. But I have a friend who was super precautious, I would say paranoic, and yet contracted it. And I have my personal case when I am in the constant contact with the person who tested positive. I apply 0 precautions, well, we do not kiss and I ask not to cough on me (although it happens every now and then) and yet I am fine so far. May be I shall contract coronavirus later on - may be I won't. For the last time - we know nothing, how it appeared, how dangerous it is, and what are the necessary rules of conduct.

The very last one - if I get coronavirus from my wife within the next 10 days I will publicly admit it....
 
I know this isn't super relevant to the thread, but I am very curious - why do people dislike Alena's Twilight program? Is it because of the music cuts? Is it because it's based off of Twilight? Because I honestly, and unironically, think it's one of Daniil's best works, and one of the best programs in the 19-20 season.
 
Thank you for the supportive words. I know that there is a toll. On the other hand, many and I mean dozens of people from my close circle got coronavirus disease. The worst scenario was with a pregnant lady who said that it was as if she was beaten by sticks - she delivered a healthy baby after all. Yes, loss of senses is universal and does not happen with flu. But in the end of the day in my circle so far there have been no severe cases. And it tells me that the real Russian figures are way higher than reported. And if this thing is unavoidable what sense it makes to try to avoid it at all costs?
To avoid overwhelming the healthcare system.
 
I know this isn't super relevant to the thread, but I am very curious - why do people dislike Alena's Twilight program? Is it because of the music cuts? Is it because it's based off of Twilight? Because I honestly, and unironically, think it's one of Daniil's best works, and one of the best programs in the 19-20 season.

For me, the music doesn't have enough dynamic range. Given that she's one of the rare skaters who could probably sell almost any music she performs to, it's a bit underwhelming to watch a program with some angsty teenager singing.
 
I don't think it's that much rocket-science to guess how an infectious disease spreads. With FS, it would definitely be an overreaction to completely cancel everything, but that isn't even what is being asked for. We all want all of the events to take place. Actually, athletes catching the virus and not being able to participate is the worst outcome. There was a party + banquet with zero control, and now Elizaveta, Misha and Guliakova won't be at stage 5, that is the real consequence.

Sometimes people behave as though wearing masks or keeping distance (which is not forever) is like asking someone to become celibate for life. Depending on the rules it isn't like the banquet/party was not allowed, but at least try to have some limits. You don't need to hug/kiss and eat food from the same plate.
 
I don't think it's that much rocket-science to guess how an infectious disease spreads. With FS, it would definitely be an overreaction to completely cancel everything, but that isn't even what is being asked for. We all want all of the events to take place. Actually, athletes catching the virus and not being able to participate is the worst outcome. There was a party + banquet with zero control, and now Elizaveta, Misha and Guliakova won't be at stage 5, that is the real consequence.

Sometimes people behave as though wearing masks or keeping distance (which is not forever) is like asking someone to become celibate for life. Depending on the rules it isn't like the banquet/party was not allowed, but at least try to have some limits. You don't need to hug/kiss and eat food from the same plate.
I just read that Dmitri Aliev has Covid as well. I mean didn't he just have ankle surgery a couple of months ago? He should have taken the whole season off to recover.

I think going forward the Russian Federation will be very careful with Banquets and press conferences and I don't know what they're going to do about the locker rooms and training facilities when there are 20 30 50 80 skaters there at one time in all four disciplines.
 
The very last one - if I get coronavirus from my wife within the next 10 days I will publicly admit it...
Is there an option to get tested where you live, even if not sick? It might be interesting.
Justin Trudeau's wife tested positive early on in the pandemic but he never got tested because he had no symptoms, so there is a possibility that he could have been infected without knowing.

One of the most complicated things about this virus is the spectrum of symptoms, from very severe to asymptomatic. That's problematic in itself as it contributes to people ignoring restrictions because they seem overblown, besides the issue of asymptomatic spread (if COVID were like Ebola with a 50% mortality rate, containment would be easier). It is true that the vast majority of severe cases have known risk factors, but also that there are exceptions (young people in ICU, old people who are fine). Currently we aren't sure why the latter occurs (could be divergent evolution of different viral strains, or perhaps some genetic factors that confer susceptibility). However, public health policy is not really dictated by these exceptional cases.

To avoid overwhelming the healthcare system

Exactly! This is really the key argument for restrictions. The fraction of total cases that require hospitalisation (say, X% of Y total cases) has generally remained comparable across countries, taking into account differences in demographics of at-risk populations (e.g. Italy's average age is quite high). So, one can predict that at Y total cases, COVID-dedicated hospital bed capacity Z needs to equal Y*X/100. If Z < Y*X/100 then COVID-related fatalities will go up. If you increase Z by dedicating more beds to COVID patients, then there will be more fatalities from car accidents, childbirth complications, heart attack etc. which would have normally been survivable with timely medical attention.

It's true that X% is not high (WHO says 20%, but in practice it's much lower as they undercounted asymptomatic cases). However when Y is very high, Y*X/100 easily exceeds Z. Y can grow exponentially in a short timespan, while Z cannot be increased by even an order of magnitude unless you build massive field hospitals (but would still face a lack of medical personnel and supplies). You can search up your city's major hospitals' bed capacity and its daily COVID case count and make a guestimate as to how bad your local situation is.

Basically, the crux of the COVID problem is rapid undetected spread + small but significant fraction of severe cases + infrastructure limitations. Areas with shoddy healthcare will of course feel it more (e.g. the Altai region in Russia, ethnic minority neighbourhoods in US cities).

Oh yeah - I don't like Alena's Twilight LP because of the sudden music cuts. Just to be OT.
 
We may not know everything about COVID but we've learned a good deal about how it spreads and it can be prevented from spreading. Of course those aren't foolproof - very few prevention measures are. These things are not actually controversial among people who know what they're talking about.

I liked Aliona's Twilight a lot, not because it was a brilliant program, but because she clearly enjoyed skating it and got really into it :)
 
We may not know everything about COVID but we've learned a good deal about how it spreads and it can be prevented from spreading. Of course those aren't foolproof - very few prevention measures are. These things are not actually controversial among people who know what they're talking about.

I liked Aliona's Twilight a lot, not because it was a brilliant program, but because she clearly enjoyed skating it and got really into it :)
What I wanted to say, but more concisely put(y) Thanks!
 
A lot of skaters are heading to the backyard.

It will be interesting to see how these big academies handle things and such as sambo-70 will they instead of having a couple hundred skaters skate a day and all four disciplines or whatever will they break it up at somebody gets the Skate 3 or 4 times a week maybe longer so you don't have a maximum crowd at the rink? It's time for Plan B if there is a plan B for kogan and the fed and I doubt there is a plan B.
if I get what you're talking about, the best solution would be to have acess to more rinks to distribute the load and reduce contacts, but there are 2 major problems:
1- the rink is only a part of those big academies, and they have a lot of "secondary" training places in their facilities
2- the staff would probably remain in contact with all the skaters so forming a bridge and limiting the effectiveness of the skate's' separation (breaking their own bubble)
 
from the "behind the scene" videos we had from rostelecom and cup of Russia, I think the major risks where
  • warmup room: closed and relatively small room with 6 single / 5 pairs exercising and coaches presents
  • staff: too many and not related to the skaters (e.g. not their own coach) people staying too close to them even not properly wearing a mask. I also suppose the staff was not tested before being allowed to work.
  • Were all the skaters and coaches tested 1 or 2 days before the competition in order of being allowed to participate? If not it's crazy. I expect it was done cause that alone will nullify anithing else.
  • @Rostelecom we had a gala show where contact between skaters is frequent because of the rythm of the exibition and the final. There was even group skating = putting people not in the competition in contact with the skaters
  • we even had a banquet that looked like a wedding party. :palmf:
The banquet alone is the sign that someone thinks "COVID is around but not here" and that attitude is suicidal.
If you can do something so macroscopic, how I could I ever believe you took care of the little details that could make the difference?
(example: areating and sanitizing the warm up area, the changing rooms and the K&K area between group/skaters, creating secure corridors for the skaters to move in the facility without contacting strangers etc.)
 
I'm so sad. At this point it looks like it'll really be as @JazzUp said before, only Kogan and Gorshkov will be at Russian nationals. They have some of the best athletes in the sport, and even have surplus in some disciplines, and I think that is why they thought they're invincible and above the situation. Why would you get so cocky? :( :( :(
I'm very mad at them, but at the same time I don't think they're the root of the problem obviously, - this should've come from way higher up. Instead we end up with banquets, galas, skating shows and such....

Anyway, it really seems to me that countries who were used to wear masks for protection before the pandemic started are coping much better now.

Also, some people here who were condemning Evgenia for being out in public in a park with a mask properly on, no one in any close proximity, are taking this situation to be much lighter right now.

Here's a poster I found and I'd like to dedicate to RusFed: (why only RusFed? well, it's a figure skating forum isn't it?)

"If you a little cough or a runny nose, make sure to use a mask of 6 layers of gauze. *"
"The flu is dangerous with its complications."


* Not fully sure if the correct translation of the material is gauze, but obviously not important for the context to be understood.

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The Sports minister was asked to comment on the situation:

“We regret the outbreak of coronavirus in the Russian national figure skating team, we wish everyone a speedy recovery. Is it worth postponing or canceling the Russian championship? This is a question for the federation. minimizing the risks of the spread of coronavirus infection. We are waiting for concrete proposals from the federation, "Matytsin told reporters"
 
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