2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 622 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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To me, a "soft knee" refers more to a smooth and continuous flex and bend throughout the duration of the landing. The opposite would be to land straight-legged and abruptly, which is not so pretty (not to mention you might break your ankles).

As for landing low to the ice (making the landing look like a save), I think Shoma Uno is a good example.
 
No I don't remember Alyona ever being great in step sequences, none of the Golden Trio do. Also Alyona's level 2 step sequences are just plain atrocious this year so I don't know WTH are you talking about. She is not very dynamic and fast nor very precise when she does her steps. I'd rather attribute that to how brilliant the choreography was. Adios Nonino is probably Eteri's greatest work. Also you have been quite adamant on how Kamila will be scored lower internationally and relative to Alyona and Rika scores which is already quite a stretch at this point since the two are nowhere near the form to even get 80+. Currently the judges most of the time don't artificially deflate contenders to save veteran skaters who are struggling or who's tech is lagging from being usurp. See how easily they give out GOE's and PCS to Anna and Alyona banishing Zagitova and Medvedeva to second class.
Alena certainly needs her triple axel back but Rika?????? We haven’t seen her in competition yet but she’s been landing gorgeous triple axels, loop combos, has her lutz back this year, and generally looks fantastic from what we’ve seen. In what world is she far from 80+ form lmao
 
So does this mean that the Trusova/Shcherbakava/Kostornia epoch is history and the new era is upon us?

Not so much, but their 15 minutes of fame (as per Warhol's saying) may be already moving into its last minutes, and hers.... well, we'll see.

But for those who are already crowning her olympic champion, I'd be more cautious - remind me, when was the last time the public and press's pre-ordained OGM in either singles disciplines actually took the thing? Were I the 3A or Kihira - or any of the top ladies - I'd simply steer past Valieva's hype train and keep on keeping on.
 
No I don't remember Alyona ever being great in step sequences, none of the Golden Trio do. Also Alyona's level 2 step sequences are just plain atrocious this year so I don't know WTH are you talking about. She is not very dynamic and fast nor very precise when she does her steps. I'd rather attribute that to how brilliant the choreography was. Adios Nonino is probably Eteri's greatest work. Also you have been quite adamant on how Kamila will be scored lower internationally and relative to Alyona and Rika scores which is already quite a stretch at this point since the two are nowhere near the form to even get 80+. Currently the judges most of the time don't artificially deflate contenders to save veteran skaters who are struggling or who's tech is lagging from being usurp. See how easily they give out GOE's and PCS to Anna and Alyona banishing Zagitova and Medvedeva to second class.
Um, yes step sequences are a part of choreography and yes I do think Alyona has gotten the best step sequence choreography but that's because she can actually do difficult turns and steps and still manage to build speed in them! You cannot attribute good step sequences solely to choreography, nor can we attribute them solely to a skater. Even if the choreography is the best in the world, if the skater doesn't have the ability to perform to that quality, it won't be able to live up to that potential. For example, I really enjoy the step sequence for Zhenya's Ballet Russe, but in the 2013 JGPF she was clearly rushing and wasn't trying to perform at all, while at 2014 Junior Worlds, she took the time to perform and match the music. Both step sequences have the same choreography, but the difference in skating made one good and one mediocre. For starters, I said excluding this year's FS, which is the only one consistently getting level 2s. Let's take a look at the Angel SP step sequence shall we? There are a lot of difficult steps in that step sequence, lots of one-foot skating, and even in the turns she is keeping extremely deep edges. If you take this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAcgxEoM4pU and watch 2:49 to 2:54, she's doing two twizzles and some very difficult footwork in between, but still hasn't lost speed following the second twizzle and has maintained deep edges in the footwork. I have not been able to see other Russian ladies attempt such difficult patterns. And you don't have to be fast when doing a step sequence, you do need to be precise, which she is. The Adios Nonino step sequence is just a masterpiece. And while much credit should be given for Eteri for choreographing such a great program, it would not have been as iconic as it is if Alyona couldn't perform it as well as she could. She is fast here, so I don't understand where that argument came from, and very dynamic. She projects every movement to the audience, and holds them out extremely well, which adds to the illusion of grace and ease (not just in that program, in every program). And I'm not saying Kamila will score lower than Alyona or Rika, I'm saying, I just didn't think her score made a lot of sense. And we don't even know Rika's state yet, so let's not jump to conclusions yet.
 
To me, a "soft knee" refers more to a smooth and continuous flex and bend throughout the duration of the landing. The opposite would be to land straight-legged and abruptly, which is not so pretty (not to mention you might break your ankles).

As for landing low to the ice (making the landing look like a save), I think Shoma Uno is a good example.
Another example that comes to mind is Ksenia Stolbova on her throws. Her knee action is iconic and the amount of flow she got was mind-boggling.

I personally am not a fan of most exit transitions as they tend to look “thrown in there” to grab more points.
 
No I don't remember Alyona ever being great in step sequences, none of the Golden Trio do. Also Alyona's level 2 step sequences are just plain atrocious this year so I don't know WTH are you talking about. She is not very dynamic and fast nor very precise when she does her steps. I'd rather attribute that to how brilliant the choreography was. Adios Nonino is probably Eteri's greatest work. Also you have been quite adamant on how Kamila will be scored lower internationally and relative to Alyona and Rika scores which is already quite a stretch at this point since the two are nowhere near the form to even get 80+. Currently the judges most of the time don't artificially deflate contenders to save veteran skaters who are struggling or who's tech is lagging from being usurp. See how easily they give out GOE's and PCS to Anna and Alyona banishing Zagitova and Medvedeva to second class.

Umm, where were either Zagitova and Medvedeva pushed to second class in favor of Shcherbakova or Kostornaia last year (certainly can't be this year as Zagitova and Medvedeva aren't competing). Its difficult to look at Medvedeva against Shcherbakova or Kostornaia since they only went against each other in the SP at Nationals, and the only competition where Shcherbakova and Zagitova were at together was the GPF, which if you look at the hot mess of a FS that Zagitova did then look at Shcherbakova's FS and you see that Shcherbakova only beat Zagitova by .34 points in PCS and are you really going to try to sell me that the judges are trying to banish Zagitova. Additionally if you look at the GP events between Zagitova and Kostornaia, Zagitova was generally always beating Kostornaia in PCS and in GOEs on comparable elements (step sequences, spins and choreographic sequences)
 
Is Kamila adding rippons a good idea though? Her rippon quad at Rostelecom was gorgeous, but from the ones we saw today: +2 (good air position and good height and distance) but also -1 for weak landing, making it only +1. If it were just a normal quad it would be (+1 for effortless, +1 for good height and distance and +1 for good take-off and landing) so +3, and honestly I might even give the good air position bullet too making it +4. I don't think the rippons are necessary to get her to a +4.
Honestly, I do think the Rippon helps her on the 4T. She has had issues with strange landings on all her toe jumps for some time, it didn't start with the addition of the Rippon. After adding the Rippon, she was actually able to land both quads. I think it helps her axis, and thus prevents those scary falls. I am all for anything that prevents that adorable kid from getting hurt. Her ankle is getting hurt a bit, but her falls before made me worry she would get a concussion.
Alena certainly needs her triple axel back but Rika?????? We haven’t seen her in competition yet but she’s been landing gorgeous triple axels, loop combos, has her lutz back this year, and generally looks fantastic from what we’ve seen. In what world is she far from 80+ form lmao
You forget that this is the Russian lady's thread so any minor criticism of an Eteri skater is wrong, but making wild claims about skaters from other countries/coaches is perfectly acceptable. We have to see if Rika is solid in competition before making a definitive statement, but Rika was getting 80+ last year without her 3z and this year she isn't injured so with her lutz (if clean) she should score 83+. To be fair, a clean Valieva should also score this high. Rika/Valieva have different strengths. Rika has better combos, a better 3A (at the moment, I think Kamila's is getting better and in a few months it could be at Rika/ Aliona's level), and better skating skills. I prefer her StepSeq because the turns (like Aliona's) are well done. However, Valieva has lovely spins and a lot of speed. Valieva's flexibility is so showy and makes her skating interesting. All in all, they should both score 83+ if clean in the senior competition. However, I don't agree with Valieva's score at Russian cup because she had a serious mistake, and when you have a major mistake both PCS/GOE go down. 78 for Valieva's program would be possible, maybe 79 at a stretch but anything beyond that is overscoring.
 
Not so much, but their 15 minutes of fame (as per Warhol's saying) may be already moving into its last minutes, and hers.... well, we'll see.

But for those who are already crowning her olympic champion, I'd be more cautious - remind me, when was the last time the public and press's pre-ordained OGM in either singles disciplines actually took the thing? Were I the 3A or Kihira - or any of the top ladies - I'd simply steer past Valieva's hype train and keep on keeping on.

I don't think that Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova's "15 minutes" may be moving to their last minutes in terms of competitions, certainly in media I think they are turning into the metaphorical "yesterday news" as the media has their new shining 'star', but last check I believe their desire is to win competitions not be a media-darling/favorite so I think they will be fine. Perhaps it will even be better for them with less attention from the media, I think it could certainly help Trusova who seems to have competition nerve issues, and Shcherbakova seems to have always been the "forgotten" 1 in the media (from my perspective in the US) so I don't think this is any different of scenario for her.

I agree about everyone needing to be careful about Valieva, look at Polina Tsurskaya or Alexandra Prokolova (no offense to these 2) both were hyped up but never made much noise on the international senior scene, if at all.
 
Alena certainly needs her triple axel back but Rika?????? We haven’t seen her in competition yet but she’s been landing gorgeous triple axels, loop combos, has her lutz back this year, and generally looks fantastic from what we’ve seen. In what world is she far from 80+ form lmao

This is key though, there are plenty of examples of skaters who look fine in practice but then perform below expectations in competition. And how many clips have we seen of Kirhara doing a full run-through in practice looking gorgeous? It's 1 thing to doing a single element in practice gorgeous vs. doing a complete program run-through and having multiple elements look gorgeous and then executing that same gorgeous program in a competition environment.
 
I don't think that Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova's "15 minutes" may be moving to their last minutes in terms of competitions, certainly in media I think they are turning into the metaphorical "yesterday news" as the media has their new shining 'star', but last check I believe their desire is to win competitions not be a media-darling/favorite so I think they will be fine. Perhaps it will even be better for them with less attention from the media, I think it could certainly help Trusova who seems to have competition nerve issues, and Shcherbakova seems to have always been the "forgotten" 1 in the media (from my perspective in the US) so I don't think this is any different of scenario for her.

I agree about everyone needing to be careful about Valieva, look at Polina Tsurskaya or Alexandra Prokolova (no offense to these 2) both were hyped up but never made much noise on the international senior scene, if at all.

Maybe - I've no doubt they'd like to be something of media darlings simply because that's where the money is but it's likely the skyhigh expectations as they went into seniors was seriously detrimental, especially when outside factors came in that no one could expect. Does Valieva have sponsors yet?

I just think words like "the OGM is his/hers to lose!!" should be pretty much banned because it almost never turns out well for them....
 
I was going to apologize for being off-topic, but it seems as if there isn’t a consistent topic anyway :LOL:

Random, but Daria’s programs... I was a huge critic of them at the beginning of the season. Both programs I had the criticism that the music choices were generic and thoughtless (still true), and that the choreography is generic Danny G choreography (still mostly true) that we’ve seen 50x over. I will say, I like both programs now. They are certainly on track to be my most rewatched programs this year.

I still see Daria as a delicate, gentle skater with softness, flow, and fluidity throughout everything she does on ice. She has beautiful arms, with flexibility and expressiveness throughout her entire body. Before the season started my personal wish was for her to do a Clair de Lune SP. Daniil had a different vision— Moulin Rouge! More overbearing heavy, deep womanly vocals for this delicate, gentle skater. It’s not all bad, though. There’s a fairy-like feel to the music and some majestic sound effects in the music that she hits right on the musical notes that effectively make the program feel softer, delicate, more magical, like the skater herself. I’ll always be mad at the most beautiful 2A entry and exit being changed to one that’s so much... worse. However, it’s still impressive that she has so much control over her beautiful 2A even if the transitions aren’t aesthetically pleasing. I like the steps into the Lutz and the exit— it is choreographed beautifully to the music and Dasha does this so well. Then there’s the highlight(s) of the program! The beautifully extended spiral (that could be held a second longer!) into the 3f3t and then the beautiful exit, right into the I-spin— all perfectly matching the music (nice composition during this part, Daniil) and done at absolute top quality. Then the stunning ina-bauer that starts off that StSq, that could be held longer, but it’s right on the music and makes sense within the choreography, so I’ll let it slide. The first half of the StSq is sublime. All of those strengths within Daria’s skating are highlighted in the first half of the StSq. Her ice coverage looks amazing, she’s in tune with the music throughout. She has big, yet soft and delicate skating that’s really shown here. The first twizzles are magnificent, too. I’m running out of adjectives but the ending choreo/spin/pose is really nice, too.

I think this short program is my favorite this season after Anna’s. Though, I will say, Anna and Daria’s SPs as my top 2 this season is a lot weaker than my top SPs last season. While beautiful and my favorite that I’ve seen this season, they don’t match up to Anna’s Perfume, Zhenya’s Exogenesis, Alina’s Me Voy, etc.

Back to Daria, here’s a prayer/manifestation circle for her 3A. She’s been having a great season, better than most expected, but she does need that jump soon! I’ve grown to like her R&J too, I think there’s a genius section of it that I can go into detail about later. The spread eagle into the 3Lo, then the I-spin on the music, well into the slower part of the music is just.. wow. Worth the rewatch if you don’t remember what I’m talking about ;) I do still absolutely hate the FS StSq. I genuinely wish they would scrap that last music change and just insert Kissing You and redo the choreography. Even the most generic and overplayed music and choreography would be better here. Seriously. The music and the choreography is just absolutely horrendous. Especially for Daria. Especially when we see her do a beautiful, well suited, and nicely choreographed StSq in her SP. Oh, well. Still can’t wait to see it again!

Sorry for the ramblings. Stage Five didn’t interest me much with Aliona and Liza’s withdraws, so I went back to watch some of my other favorite Russian ladies instead. Nationals are so soon and everything is so uncertain. I’m both excited and terrified to see what’s coming in the next few weeks.
 
This is key though, there are plenty of examples of skaters who look fine in practice but then perform below expectations in competition. And how many clips have we seen of Kirhara doing a full run-through in practice looking gorgeous? It's 1 thing to doing a single element in practice gorgeous vs. doing a complete program run-through and having multiple elements look gorgeous and then executing that same gorgeous program in a competition environment.
We still have gotten zero indication that she’s not competition ready. She was going to be at IDF before it was canceled and has Nationals in a few weeks so it’s much more logical to assume she is in good form, especially with how early she got back on the ice and how quickly she was landing her triple axel.

Like it was one thing to question Alena’s form pre-competition because there were reasons to question it: she had a late coaching change, learned her programs very late, and we knew she was having issues getting her triple axel back. Rika’s had some coaching questions but even with that she’s been clearly training hard in Switzerland, getting new programs with time to perfect them (the snippets of which look really good so far), and posting triple axels and quad sals. There is zero reason to assume she’s in the same “unable to reach 80 points” form at this point.
 
Were I the 3A or Kihira - or any of the top ladies - I'd simply steer past Valieva's hype train and keep on keeping on.
Heh - the entire ladies' event is a hype train. Both Russia and the US seem to have that habit.

I have a hard time getting invested in any ladies these days since they tend to vanish by the next Olympic cycle. By the time I get attached to them (usually after a couple of international seasons, like the 3A), they're no longer considered front runners... That's why my favourite skaters are either dark horses or not ladies.
 
But for those who are already crowning her olympic champion, I'd be more cautious - remind me, when was the last time the public and press's pre-ordained OGM in either singles disciplines actually took the thing?
To me, it is not so much a case of there being a "pre-ordained OGM" as it is a race between the current champ and the fast-rising challenger. Would Yuzuru Hanyu catch Patrick Chan in time in 2014? Both had gobs of media play and fan support.

What is different about the current situation in Russian ladies is that everything is compressed in time. The artists formerly known as the Three A's just barely had a season to sneak ahead of Zagitova and Medvedeva before they have to turn around and defend their rears.
 
To me, it is not so much a case of there being a "pre-ordained OGM" as it is a race between the current champ and the fast-rising challenger. Would Yuzuru Hanyu catch Patrick Chan in time in 2014? Both had gobs of media play and fan support.

What is different about the current situation in Russian ladies is that everything is compressed in time. The artists formerly known as the Three A's just barely had a season to sneak ahead of Zagitova and Medvedeva before they have to turn around and defend their rears.
Unfortunately, it wasn't even a complete season for Alexandra, Aliona, and Anna.
2020 Worlds ended up being cancelled due to this horrible pandemic.
Who know how things will eventually sort themselves out in Ladies skating by the time Beijing 2022(or 23 or whatever) comes around.
 
Umm, where were either Zagitova and Medvedeva pushed to second class in favor of Shcherbakova or Kostornaia last year (certainly can't be this year as Zagitova and Medvedeva aren't competing). Its difficult to look at Medvedeva against Shcherbakova or Kostornaia since they only went against each other in the SP at Nationals, and the only competition where Shcherbakova and Zagitova were at together was the GPF, which if you look at the hot mess of a FS that Zagitova did then look at Shcherbakova's FS and you see that Shcherbakova only beat Zagitova by .34 points in PCS and are you really going to try to sell me that the judges are trying to banish Zagitova. Additionally if you look at the GP events between Zagitova and Kostornaia, Zagitova was generally always beating Kostornaia in PCS and in GOEs on comparable elements (step sequences, spins and choreographic sequences)
That's true and she is still much better technical skater than Kostornaya element for element except the 3A which in the end was still the reason she got sidelined and her PCS/GOE depressed. Was it at the GPF where her SP got underscored which in previous seasons would be at least 82+. The judges started expecting 3A and quads in programs and those who couldn't land them started seeing their scores fall. There are exceptions like the ridiculous scoring given to Sakamoto in her LP but as far as I can see the judging is trending towards that direction.
 
Top Russian Scores this season for probable National qualifiers (RUS Cup and GP)

LADIES
Kamila Valieva 254
Alexandra Trusova 248
Anna Shcherbakova 246
Daria Usacheva 233
Alena Kostornaia 226
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 223
Maia Khromykh 212
Anna Frolova 206
Anastasia Gulyakova 199
Ksenia Tsibinova 198
Sofia Samodurova 197
Anastasia Tarakanova 195
Elizaveta Nugumanova 191
Valeria Shulskaya 189
Maria Talalaykina 180
Stanislava Molchanova 171
No Score: Medvedeva, Sinitsina
(Alt: Kostina 172, Konstantinova 196)
And without bonuses (like it will be at RusNats) it will look like this

LADIES
Kamila Valieva 244 (-10 B)
Alexandra Trusova 242 (-6 B)
Anna Shcherbakova 240 (-6 B)
Daria Usacheva 228 (-5 B)
Alena Kostornaia 225 (-1 B)
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 223
Maia Khromykh 211 (-1 B)
Anna Frolova 206
Anastasia Gulyakova 199
Ksenia Tsibinova 198
Sofia Samodurova 197
Anastasia Tarakanova 195
Elizaveta Nugumanova 191
Valeria Shulskaya 189
Maria Talalaykina 180
Stanislava Molchanova 171
No Score: Medvedeva, Sinitsina
(Alt: Kostina 172, Konstantinova 196)

It's crazy that Konstantinova got beaten by Kostina and is only 2nd runner-up.
She clearly belongs in there with a score of 196.
 
Not so much, but their 15 minutes of fame (as per Warhol's saying) may be already moving into its last minutes, and hers.... well, we'll see.

But for those who are already crowning her olympic champion, I'd be more cautious - remind me, when was the last time the public and press's pre-ordained OGM in either singles disciplines actually took the thing? Were I the 3A or Kihira - or any of the top ladies - I'd simply steer past Valieva's hype train and keep on keeping on.
I'm sure that's what they and Kamila are doing. The premature crowning of Olympic champions a fan/media thing - there's even a huge predictions thread not this forum for every competition. I don't think any of these skaters walk around thinking they're better than everyone else and are guaranteed Olympic gold, or even a spot on the team.

As for 15 minutes of fame, they're in the same place as everyone else. When was the last time someone repeated Olympic gold (or any colour medal)? Just because a skater isn't winning every competition doesn't mean their "15 minutes of fame are over", that's an extremely toxic label to put on any skater.
 
To me, it is not so much a case of there being a "pre-ordained OGM" as it is a race between the current champ and the fast-rising challenger. Would Yuzuru Hanyu catch Patrick Chan in time in 2014? Both had gobs of media play and fan support.

What is different about the current situation in Russian ladies is that everything is compressed in time. The artists formerly known as the Three A's just barely had a season to sneak ahead of Zagitova and Medvedeva before they have to turn around and defend their rears.
I just don't see how this is a problem? The alternative would be for everyone else to stall their progress to give the current frontrunners more time at the top. But just as no one is guaranteed Olympic gold, skaters shouldn't be scored based on their age. It wouldn't be a competitive sport anymore, just scores guaranteed based on how long they've been skating.

The reason this is happening so quickly is because of the popularity of the sport, but surely holding back skaters/reducing the number of skaters isn't something that should happen? I've seen this happen with my favourites as well, when Sasha/Alena/Anna overtook Alina and just today when Kamila's PCS is on track to rise above Anna's. But I don't think Kamila shouldn't be held back so that Anna can win - they should be scored based on how they skate.
 
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