2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[sclloyd]

This is key though, there are plenty of examples of skaters who look fine in practice but then perform below expectations in competition. And how many clips have we seen of Kirhara doing a full run-through in practice looking gorgeous? It's 1 thing to doing a single element in practice gorgeous vs. doing a complete program run-through and having multiple elements look gorgeous and then executing that same gorgeous program in a competition environment.

Kihira definitely has consistency issues on the world stage. IMO, 2019 worlds was hers to take. For certain, there is no way for us to compare a practice-only Kihira to the field who has already competed. How many videos of much improved spins and step sequences did we see from Aliona only for her to falter on them in competition.

 

[Ophelia]

As for 15 minutes of fame, they're in the same place as everyone else. When was the last time someone repeated Olympic gold (or any colour medal)? Just because a skater isn't winning every competition doesn't mean their "15 minutes of fame are over", that's an extremely toxic label to put on any skater.

The last 2 Olympics...

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Who know how things will eventually sort themselves out in Ladies skating by the time Beijing 2022(or 23 or whatever) comes around.

If the Beijing Olympics were held in Winter 2023, would Sofia Akatieva be eligible as well? If so, she might get her only chance at being Olympic champion thanks to COVID. She'd be 19 in 2026, which as we've learnt is over the hill for a Russian lady.

It's kind of amusing that birthdate seems like the strongest predictor of Olympic prospects. Apart from coaches, whoever steps atop the ladies' podium might also want to thank their parents for strategic family planning.

 

[Vandevska]

Kamila's quads from this competition have got me like:

I think they might've fixed the timing and axis issues, and it's just gorgeous, beautiful, amazing, incredible. It's so tall it looks like there's enough for a 5th revolution.

I like this FS dress more, and it reminds me of the dress of this cutie pie here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5zJJkydCEk

 

[rollerblade]

If the Beijing Olympics were held in Winter 2023, would Sofia Akatieva be eligible as well?

Depends. Is her birth date before or after July 1, 2007?
Also depends on whether ISU adjusts the age requirement, as if it's a 2022 Olys.

 

[TallyT]

I'm sure that's what they and Kamila are doing. The premature crowning of Olympic champions a fan/media thing - there's even a huge predictions thread not this forum for every competition. I don't think any of these skaters walk around thinking they're better than everyone else and are guaranteed Olympic gold, or even a spot on the team.

As for 15 minutes of fame, they're in the same place as everyone else. When was the last time someone repeated Olympic gold (or any colour medal)? Just because a skater isn't winning every competition doesn't mean their "15 minutes of fame are over", that's an extremely toxic label to put on any skater.

I think you're missing my point - it's not that they are thinking (or even being encouraged to think if their coaches are wise) they are by definition better than everyone. It's the pressure that's put on by built up assumptions and expectations. Patrick and Yuna and Yulia in 2014 and Evgenia and Nathan Chen in 2018 could tell us all about that. I agree totally it's a fan/media and federation thing. That's what makes it so difficult, I mean what can the skater in question do when every interviewer talks about it, every fansite/social media insists on it, every countryman and woman looks at them to meet the beat up expectations?

I deeply dislike the ever-faster revolving door in the ladies' discipline and always have, but disliking it doesn't alter facts. None of these girls have a lock on the gold, they won't have a lock in 2021, they won't have a lock the day before the short program in Beijing. I just wish people would stop talking as if the Latest Wunderkind has, because the drop - for them - is devastating.

(Repeated gold? For the ladies, 1980s. The expected winner winning? I guess it was Yuna in 2010, but there was a loooong drought before then)

 

[TallyT]

The last 2 Olympics...

That was in the men. I doubt you will every see it again in the ladies under present rules, but all three other disciplines... maybe.

 

[colormyworld240]

The last 2 Olympics...

Ladies.

 

[nussnacker]

I don’t see her being crowned, but there is an acknowledgment that now she seems to have a realistic shot at it, just like Aliona, Anna and Sasha, as well as Rika.
With just 1 landed 4T her claim for Olympic spot in Russia might have not even been convincing, but with 2 landed and a 3A landed it changed the optics for her greatly.
Her first 3A attempt looked pretty good, it doesn’t look to me at this point that she’s going to spend several seasons making it stable (like it took for Rika), and having both quads and 3A is a huge advantage with the current rules, it’s stupid to deny it.

Ice is slippery though, so who knows what happens by next year. Anna gets 3A? Aliona gets 3A and 4S? Any minute things can change for all of them. As of now, these 5 look like they all have a chance to win that gold.

 

[colormyworld240]

That was in the men. I doubt you will every see it again in the ladies under present rules, but all three other disciplines... maybe.

But that's the thing. There's nothing in the rules for the ladies that is different from the other disciplines which reduces the time each athlete spends at the top. It's just the ladies' discipline is much more popular, especially in Russia, but also in Japan and Korea.

If you just look at juniors from last season, how many of the Russian ladies went clean at nationals vs. how many men? If the talent pool was was the same for the men and ladies, I'm sure there would be a lot of hype around them too especially since the senior Russian men are quite inconsistent.

 

[colormyworld240]

Kamila's quads from this competition have got me like:

I think they might've fixed the timing and axis issues, and it's just gorgeous, beautiful, amazing, incredible. It's so tall it looks like there's enough for a 5th revolution.

I like this FS dress more, and it reminds me of the dress of this cutie pie here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5zJJkydCEk

She has definitely worked on it and it's better, but the axis still isn't completely straight. You can actually see her tilt towards the end compared to her best attempts. However, changes don't happen overnight and she's already made progress in a few weeks so I think it'll keep improving as she works on it more.

 

[Skatesocs]

If the talent pool was was the same for the men and ladies

Yes, this is correct. In general, I think for performing arts, the talent pool for girls/women, is far greater than for men.

In skating too, I have felt the best women are way better performers than the best men, always. I wonder if this is partly why ladies' discipline is better than the men's.

 

[Vandevska]

She has definitely worked on it and it's better, but the axis still isn't completely straight. You can actually see her tilt towards the end compared to her best attempts. However, changes don't happen overnight and she's already made progress in a few weeks so I think it'll keep improving as she works on it more.

True, you can see it more in the first quad here, towards the end as you said. I don't know whether it's because rippon jumps have to be straighter in the air to work, or rippon means that your body is straighter in the air in general, but I think it actually helps her quite a bit here. In those quad attempts when she falls she is significantly more off axis and the tilt happens almost instantaneously when she gets in the air.

I think this sometimes happens with her 3lo as it happened in this competition, but since it's a triple it's much lower, 1 less rotation and there's not enough time for a big enough tilt to happen for her to fall, so she lands it.

Another thing is the way she lands the quads, it's a bit of an iffy landing, in a way as if her body is not strong enough (I don't exactly mean "strong" but I can't think of another word to describe what I mean right now) to stabilize it upon landing. I have a theory that it might be because she's super flexible and it is messing with her a bit due to how limber she is.

As you said, changes don't happen overnight, and I think it's still pretty impressive regardless.

 

[silveruskate]

"Flow" is even less defined term than "skating skills". What we are talking about: speed, the blade control, anything else? There was a table on speed before and after jumps. Japanese skaters did not strike to be that faster on average. Kaori is quite fast on landings. But I think Alyona was no worse last season. As for the blade control it was Eteri's skaters who started doing crazy transitions immediately after landing. The Japanese and Americans followed. Ok, once again, we are free to disagree. Even to say the things like "everybody knows that...."

If you can't see it, there isn't much more to say. Difference of view.

 

[flanker]

If the Beijing Olympics were held in Winter 2023, would Sofia Akatieva be eligible as well? If so, she might get her only chance at being Olympic champion thanks to COVID. She'd be 19 in 2026, which as we've learnt is over the hill for a Russian lady.

It's kind of amusing that birthdate seems like the strongest predictor of Olympic prospects. Apart from coaches, whoever steps atop the ladies' podium might also want to thank their parents for strategic family planning.

Depends. Is her birth date before or after July 1, 2007?
Also depends on whether ISU adjusts the age requirement, as if it's a 2022 Olys.

No, Sofia's birth is 7th july, so she is not senior eligible for the season 2022-2023 because of 7 days.

 

[[email protected]]

Alena certainly needs her triple axel back but Rika?????? We haven’t seen her in competition yet but she’s been landing gorgeous triple axels, loop combos, has her lutz back this year, and generally looks fantastic from what we’ve seen. In what world is she far from 80+ form lmao

That's the key point. I don't want to diminish Rika. She is by far the best Japanese skater now. But her best competition results were at the beginning of 2018-19 season. I understand that she never beat any of 3A.

 

[katymay]

That's the key point. I don't want to diminish Rika. She is by far the best Japanese skater now. But her best competition results were at the beginning of 2018-19 season. I understand that she never beat any of 3A.

Rika's jumps are beautiful. But too much of her program consists of rest spots, followed by beautiful arm waving, all while meandering slowly down the ice. I prefer the power, speed and conditioning of Kaori, Wakaba, Alina Zagitova, Kostornaia, and yes, Kamila.

 

[Scott512]

If the Beijing Olympics were held in Winter 2023, would Sofia Akatieva be eligible as well? If so, she might get her only chance at being Olympic champion thanks to COVID. She'd be 19 in 2026, which as we've learnt is over the hill for a Russian lady.

It's kind of amusing that birthdate seems like the strongest predictor of Olympic prospects. Apart from coaches, whoever steps atop the ladies' podium might also want to thank their parents for strategic family planning.

Interesting points FF specially about Sofia and what would happen to her if the Winter Olympics got postponed a year.

 

[Zora]

Kamila is brilliant, but I don't see Anna Shcherbakova far away from her. If Kamila makes mistakes, which she often does and which is perfectly normal for a skater who includes multiple quads, 3As, triple-triple combinations, then Anna has every chance to beat her with her 4F or 4Lz or both. Her only problem is the short program, because she doesn't have a 3A. And I don't see anyone else coming close to them. Well done by Tutberidze!

 

[Lzbee]

And without bonuses (like it will be at RusNats) it will look like this

LADIES
Kamila Valieva 244 (-10 B)
Alexandra Trusova 242 (-6 B)
Anna Shcherbakova 240 (-6 B)
Daria Usacheva 228 (-5 B)
Alena Kostornaia 225 (-1 B)
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 223
Maia Khromykh 211 (-1 B)
Anna Frolova 206
Anastasia Gulyakova 199
Ksenia Tsibinova 198
Sofia Samodurova 197
Anastasia Tarakanova 195
Elizaveta Nugumanova 191
Valeria Shulskaya 189
Maria Talalaykina 180
Stanislava Molchanova 171
No Score: Medvedeva, Sinitsina
(Alt: Kostina 172, Konstantinova 196)

It's crazy that Konstantinova got beaten by Kostina and is only 2nd runner-up.
She clearly belongs in there with a score of 196.

Only the top 7 (minus Liza) got bonuses??? This seems ridiculous to me as I thought the point of the spin bonus was to allow those who are excellent at spins to have a chance of scoring well. But seeing the likes of Nugumanova not get a single bonus makes me question the intention. It looks like a case of "we want to give our top skaters as big a number as possible for international judges to emulate".