2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 650 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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NAOTMAA said:
^^^
So it looks like she's basically no better this year with the quad then she was last year. At least she's consistent although the way people compare the seasons one would have thought there was a big difference. People often forget (or willingly ignore?) how well she was doing last season up until the GPF.

The way the chart goes it would make sense just to attempt 3 because outside of the Japan Open she doesn't ever land the 4th but I guess despite her improvements she's likely never going to get the GOE and points on the other stuff Kamila and Anna get so having only 3 would be like only having 2 which puts her at a disadvantage because they attempt 2 as well. The 4th is obviously there (excluding her personal ambitions) to give her breathing room for mistakes but having it really does add to the risk of things going really bad.

Has there been any explanation for the Rostelecom meltdown? In her interview right after she said she "didn't know what happened" and then people online were claiming she was injured but considering the illness that spread through Plushenko's camp after I'm guessing she was just not feeling well?
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Correct her success rate is quite similar on the quads; the chart supports (IMO) my theory her issues are mental more than physical. Going down to 3 quads in my opinion is dependent on whether she could train to either back-load another quad (since she already backloads 1) or train up the quad flip or lutz to be repeated vs. the toe so that she is competitive with Shcherbakova since Shcherbakova once she's ready would be doing the lutz or flip in combination.

Edwin said:
There was kinesiotape on the big thigh muscle of the jumping leg. Perhaps fallen one time too many, or even on the heel of the blade, in training?

According to those same boards and sources, Trusova sort of trains herself. It is often told she is headstrong and stubborn when it comes to training regime. Unless Aleksandra has exclusive ice time and nobody is allowed in, any parent of the other kids skating on the same ice could post on those message boards and discussion fora, telling the truth or making up lies.

Mikhaylov is only 22 years old and was an ice dancer. One should consider if he really has the experience to deal with a high level athlete like Trusova with her whole arsenal of jumps, and the authority to deal with her parents when it comes to program content decisions.

Trusova left Khrustalniy for a reason after all and the fiasco of Rostelekom with "I didn't know what happened" and "here, have an icecream" makes one wonder if she really understands what needs to be done. Then there are these all consuming ambitions that perhaps prevail over common sense ....

We'll know in a week if Aleksandra has stabilised her mind and is able to deliver the needed content under greater pressure still against fierce contenders that fully know her weaknesses.

A lot probably depends on starting order in the short program. It will be most interesting for sure.
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You are right anyone on a message board can really say anything they want regarding her coaching situation, but considering several things we have at least seen/been told by the team it's not that much of stretch to say something weird is happening with her coaching situation: first she had Rozanov and he choreographed both her programs and I think in an interview it was mentioned he supposedly had a lot to do with her quads when she was with Eteri (I remember the board was debating the validity of that with people going over when Rozanov started with Eteri and when Trusova debuted her quads) then all of sudden by test skates there was zero interaction between them and it was Ilinykh with her and then within a short period of time Ilinykh was gone as well.
 
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Amei said:
That's done in a draw that's usually like a day or 2 before they skate which I think they skate like Thursday or Friday.
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Usually there is a pre-meet ceremony and drawing of lots in a semi-public setting, which some naughty skaters live stream even or where others break their gifted christmas tree bauble. Given the current situation, I wouldn't be surprised if they let the IsuCalc scoring program decide the starting order just without any ceremonials on the day of the event.

Any skater that competes a short program with a clean triksel first will have the advantage to put pressure on the rest that must match the score.
 
Edwin said:
Usually there is a pre-meet ceremony and drawing of lots in a semi-public setting, which some naughty skaters live stream even or where others break their gifted christmas tree bauble. Given the current situation, I wouldn't be surprised if they let the IsuCalc scoring program decide the starting order just without any ceremonials on the day of the event.
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I'm not wanting what I am about to say to dissolve this into a conversation about the pandemic but...It would surprise me if they didn't go on with the normal event - GP Russia had a banquet and I've seen pictures on social media of skaters going to non-competition events and meeting fans and taking side-by-side pictures with them including at their respective skating rinks. The Russian figure skating community does not appear to feel the need to grossly change their lives because Covid exists, so all the competitors being in some auditorium to draw a number doesn't seem like it will be the thing thrown out.

Edwin said:
Any skater that competes a short program with a clean triksel first will have the advantage to put pressure on the rest that must match the score.
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Based on Russian cup scoring that triple axel in the short program will need to be given positive GOE to have an advantage. Shcherbakova at her first event with no triple axel or bonus points scored over 80 points, Trusova at her first cup event scored 75.77 adding in the 2.4 points that she lost on the BV of the triple axel and her score only goes up to 78.17 points. Usacheva has a 76 once subtracting out her bonus points (there was also an error on another jump in that score).
 
Amei said:
Correct her success rate is quite similar on the quads; the chart supports (IMO) my theory her issues are mental more than physical. Going down to 3 quads in my opinion is dependent on whether she could train to either back-load another quad (since she already backloads 1) or train up the quad flip or lutz to be repeated vs. the toe so that she is competitive with Shcherbakova since Shcherbakova once she's ready would be doing the lutz or flip in combination.



You are right anyone on a message board can really say anything they want regarding her coaching situation, but considering several things we have at least seen/been told by the team it's not that much of stretch to say something weird is happening with her coaching situation: first she had Rozanov and he choreographed both her programs and I think in an interview it was mentioned he supposedly had a lot to do with her quads when she was with Eteri (I remember the board was debating the validity of that with people going over when Rozanov started with Eteri and when Trusova debuted her quads) then all of sudden by test skates there was zero interaction between them and it was Ilinykh with her and then within a short period of time Ilinykh was gone as well.
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Speaking of this again, who taught Valieva her 3A?

Because I remember it wasn't just giving him credit for Trusova's quads but also Kostornaia's 3A stability as well. People were boating it was the end of Eteri dominance because the true genius of the jumps was all due to Rozanov. Yet here is Valieva with a 3A and Shcherbakova's 4F is probably better then ever (she's supposedly doing the 4Lutz very well in practice too). So who taught the 3A to Valieva and who is working with Shcherbakova on stabilizing her quads during puberty because losing Rozanov doesn't seem to have hurt the Eteri skaters jumps at all.


edit: this probably belongs in the coaching thread so maybe the mods can move it there if necessary?
 
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NAOTMAA said:
Speaking of this again, who taught Valieva her 3A?

Because I remember it wasn't just giving him credit for Trusova's quads but also Kostornaia's 3A stability as well. People were boating it was the end of Eteri dominance because the true genius of the jumps was all due to Rozanov. Yet here is Valieva with a 3A and Shcherbakova's 4F is probably better then ever (she's supposedly doing the 4L very well in practice too). So who taught the 3A to Valieva and who is working with Shcherbakova on stabilizing her quads during puberty because losing Rozanov doesn't seem to have hurt the Eteri skaters jumps at all.
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Where's that being said? This is the first I've heard that Shcherbakova has or was working on a quad loop; based on her own interviews after she restabilized the quads she had the plan was to go after the triple axel
 
Amei said:
Where's that being said? This is the first I've heard that Shcherbakova has or was working on a quad loop; based on her own interviews after she restabilized the quads she had the plan was to go after the triple axel
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sorry I meant that as a L for lutz not loop I forgot the z at the end :slink:
 
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NAOTMAA said:
Speaking of this again, who taught Valieva her 3A?

Because I remember it wasn't just giving him credit for Trusova's quads but also Kostornaia's 3A stability as well. People were boating it was the end of Eteri dominance because the true genius of the jumps was all due to Rozanov. Yet here is Valieva with a 3A and Shcherbakova's 4F is probably better then ever (she's supposedly doing the 4L very well in practice too). So who taught the 3A to Valieva and who is working with Shcherbakova on stabilizing her quads during puberty because losing Rozanov doesn't seem to have hurt the Eteri skaters jumps at all.


edit: this probably belongs in the coaching thread so maybe the mods can move it there if necessary?
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Also Maiia landed 4T+3T (in training, of course), Adeliya also landed 4T in training already, Mark Lukin (who just turned 13) is landing quads in competitions, Nikolai Kolesnikov (just 11 years old) is landing quads in competitions. It's predominantly the work of "The Dude" with Daniil's help, I guess he is also supervising the work of the coaches of younger skaters.
 
Maybe the Russians will take some inspiration from this recent decision by the ISU council:

Change to Free Skating Draws at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021
Exceptionally, the ISU Council decided to amend Rule 513 for the Free Skating Draws. For the Free
Skating/Free Dance the starting order will be the reverse order of the result after the previous segment.
This amendment will avoid a mass-gathering of the teams and allow for a better and safer flow of the
athletes/delegations to transportation, the hotel restaurant etc. and will avoid all Skaters and Team
Leaders leaving the rink at the same time after the competition.

Which is item #3 here:

Seems like a pretty small thing, especially since we don't know for sure that worlds will take place, but the Team Tutberidze channel made a little video about it, so thoughts about this sort of thing could be "in the air."
 
Amei said:
Below is a breakdown based on the scoring sheets, I just did basics though, there were some under-rotations that I don't have tabulated out. Overall she has a decent success rate but the issue has been that the competitions where she couldn't afford to be falling/popping very many jumps has been when she's made the most errors.

2019-2020 Season

CompetitionAttemptedLandedFallsPopped
Japan Open4400
Nepela Trophy3300
Skate Canada4310
GP Russia4310
GPF5311 (4S into a 2S)
Nationals4121
Europeans3210
Total271962

2020-2021 Season
CompetitionAttemptedLandedFallsPopped
Cup Stage 23300
Cup Stage 44310
GP Russia4130
Total11740
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That 4Lz at Stage 2 really should have counted as a fall. The rules says that when your weight is not on your blades it's a fall. Sasha clearly has her weight on her hands here.

And that landed 4T at GP Russia was also not a good one. She had a 3 turn inbetween the jumps and the whole combination was scored poorly.

GP Russia really showed how disastrous the result can be if she has a skate like that. She didn't even score 200 points and was beaten by Gulyakova who had several underrotations. I expect that the whole Top 10 at Nationals will score over 200 so a skate like that would be devastating.

Let's hope she has left Rostelecom Cup behind her and that it won't happen again.
 
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Jontor said:
That 4Lz at Stage 2 really should have counted as a fall. The rules says that when your weight is not on your blades it's a fall. Sasha clearly has her weight on her hands here.

And that landed 4T at GP Russia was also not a good one. She had a 3 turn inbetween the jumps and the whole combination was scored poorly.

GP Russia really showed how disastrous the result can be if she has a skate like that. She didn't even score 200 points and was beaten by Gulyakova who had several underrotations. I expect that the whole Top 10 at Nationals will score over 200 so a skate like that would be devestating.

Let's hope she has left Rostelecom Cup behind her and that it won't happen again.
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Agree about the 4Lz, Valieva as well had a "landing" on a quad at that event that should have been calculated as a fall.
 
Who will not be in the last group after the short at Nats?

As I see it, there are seven contenders.

Best scores so far (without bonuses):
Valieva 83.20 (at Stage Five)
Shcherbakova 80.13 (at Stage One)
Kostornaia 78.84 (at GP Russia)
Trusova 77.42 (at Stage Four)
Usacheva 77.39 (at Stage Two)
Khromykh 75.89 (at Stage Four)
Tuktamysheva 75.36 (at Stage Three)

Looks like it's Liza and Maiia that have to fight to be in that last group. But it's anyone's game really. Anyone who misses an element will probably drop.

Not that it matters much. But there are some psychological aspects of being in that last group. Both for the skaters and the judges.

Group 2:
Gulyakova 70.07, Frolova 68.76, Nugumanova 68.47, Samodurova 68.01, Tsibinova 67.59

Group 3:
Konstantinova 67.10, Tarakanova 64.18, Talalaykina 62.47, Molchanova 60.91, Shulskaya 58.97, Kostina 54.97
 
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lariko said:
Valieva’s PCSs though will pull her through if the scores come tight in the top 5-6. Obviously, technical panel and judges will be the deciding factor there, and maybe, just maybe, Valieva’s programs that are not crowd pleasing vs. Trusova’s far better choices might help this year. But, again, the RNG on jumping passes is stacked against Trusova, as well as the unfortunate pressure applied to both of the ladies. In that respect, Scherbakova is always a little luckier because she is not a social media magnet.

I also wanted to add as an afterthought that for me (personal opinion) a podium that has any placement of Trusova, Scherbakova and Valieva would reflect the reality of those ladies being ahead of the others in senior group, irregardless of how lovely or deserving the other competitors are.
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Anna seems to be able to handle the pressure well, even after mistakes. She doesn't usually bomb after falling and even after major mistakes she's been able to keep her spin levels and performance/interpretation. It helps that she has 2/3 quads max. I think the last competition where she had more than 3 falls was JGPF. But, as we've seen in the calculations, whether Anna can win is out of her hands; she needs Sasha and Kamila to make mistakes. Sasha and Kamila will challenge for the title if they do what they're capable of (and I assume they've skated clean in practice otherwise why would they do the content).
 
Live skating today in Moscow's Army of Skaters:

Probably the most interesting event of the day, because it has Khrustalniy's Nikolay Kolesnikov and Lev Lelekol in boys 1-sp.
Girls 1-sp doesn't have very strong field, since all the best CSKA novices are scheduled to compete tomorrow in CSKA Ultimate.
And perhaps the first sighting of billionaire child Arina Rotenberg from Plyushchenko's Angels in 2-yun girls.
She has been declared to several competitions before, but never competed.

Live scoring: http://armyfs1920.host1810548.hostland.pro

In Sankt Peterburg at the SKA Arena:


In Kovrov:


In Astrakhan:


and here in Obninsk:
 
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