2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[NadezhdaNadya]

The only thing I can say is that it is on Anna that she refused to take the second temperature check before the FP. If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

Anyhow, my definitive opinion is that all of Russian coaches, skaters, RusFed and skating fans are utterly irresponsible going by the prevalence mouth masks and banquets in the middle of a pandemic but it is their prerogative to spread a potentially deadly disease to their loved ones and get permanent lung damage.

My respect goes to poor Gubanova who sacrificed her whole season to protect others

And respect to those who are ready to sacrifice their entire career and potential Olympic title but not their love.

 

[Magill]

In my opinion , the first example would be better if the word "definitive" were omitted. I have a strongly-held opinion that some place is untouristy. (I won't commrnt on the word "untouristy. )

In the quote from the New Yor Times, I think that "definite" would be better than "definitive." (Bush, after all, is not defining anything, however firm he might be in his opinion.

Oh well. .

Cambridge English Dictionary:
definitively
adverb
UK /dɪˈfɪn.ɪ.tɪv.li/ US /dɪˈfɪn.ə.t̬ɪv.li/
in a way that is not able to be changed or improved:
The President has spoken definitively about the situation in the region.
The link between lung cancer and air pollution has not been definitively proved.
Two slightly different meanings and two different ways of using the word.
I was not even the first one to use it, was just replying to someone else's post who used the word.

 

[Lzbee]

If you think Anna isn't being vilified for this you need to take a second look.

Well I mean she's being vilified for being irresponsible by one person. I'm seeing a lot of posters here defending her choices. The same ones whom I've seen villify Aliona for not giving Sasha a hug (not you, at least I don't think so...?)

My point is actually completely irrelevant because I'm just salty at the character assassinations of Aliona.

 

[chasingneverland]

Thing is I don't want to praise her for that, I think doing so is dangerous. I don't think it should be encouraged.

The people who think Anna's a hero, would you think Plushy was a hero if he had pushed through to compete in the singles at Sochi?

Or would it have depended on whether he'd actually succeeded or scarred the viewing public by actually paralysing himself out there?

If we praise people for doing really, really stupid things where does it end?

I think it is too. But she followed all the rules. What more do you want from her?

In a perfect world, no one would skate if they were ill or injured. But that's never been the case.

All Anna is doing is following the example of Evgenia during the Olympic season (amongst others). (Keep in mind Anna was 13 years old when that took place and would have had a very close look at it - being at the same rink.) (The only thing that people have decided now is dangerous is COVID and Anna tested negative for that.)

 

[Draculus]

I wouldn't trust the FFKR to tell me the weather if they were standing outside!

Whom do you trust? Or rephrasing the question - where did you get information that Anna HAS 38? Basically you just claiming it without giving your sources and telling that you do not trust Gorshkov telling the opposite.

 

[anonymoose_au]

If you think Anna isn't being vilified for this you need to take a second look.

Fine, but if this is how it is no other skater or their team can be criticised.

I don't want to hear another word about Sasha's injury or Liza's COVID.

All bets are off, if a skater arrives limping, can barely breathe after competing or keeps sneezing nothing and I mean nothing can be said.

You can't judge Eteri and her team and by the same token you can't criticise Plushy and the Academy.

No more questioning of Mishin either.

 

[anonymoose_au]

In a perfect world, no one would skate if they were ill or injured. But that's never been the case.

But why are we encouraging it?

Are we no different from the Ancient Romans, who's idea of sport was watching people literally fight to the death?

Why are we not standing up for more safety in sports? I know none of them will be 100% safe, nothing is, but to ignore danger again and again?

40 years ago you didn't need to wear a helmet in the Tour De France. Can you imagine? They careened downhill at over 60mph with no protective head gear! On the one hand you could call that brave, on the other it's clearly insane. Eventually the rules were changed.

Figure skating seems to just shrug their shoulders at any attempt to make things safer. I don't mean helmets, but concussion protocols, from Yuzuru at CoC to Ashley Cain-Gribble skaters with serious head trauma have been allowed to continue even though it's well known post-concussion is a thing and it can be deadly. Do we have to wait for that to actually happen before it's taken seriously? Even thought we know the danger?

You're all right, I've probably been too hard on Anna, she's learned from everyone around her that nothing else matters but skating and winning. But should she have been taught that? Should competitors of any sport be taught and encouraged to neglect everything else but the win?

Figure skating is so beautiful to watch, but is it worth it if those who take part in it feel that they'll be less worthy if they don't compete no matter what?

 

[Lzbee]

To you and whoever liked your post, I'm sorry the level of attack on Anna have not met your expectations and it made you salty.
It's just not good the 16 year old Anna is not receiving the same amount of hate as your favorite skater.
Maybe by tomorrow Anna will receive more nasty comments and you guys will feel less salty.

No, my point is not that Anna needs more hate. My point is that Aliona has had unreasonable hate. Like I already said, it's irrelevant to the larger conversation.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

To you and whoever liked your post, I'm sorry the level of attack on Anna have not met your expectations and it made you salty.
It's just not good the 16 year old Anna is not receiving the same amount of hate as your favorite skater.
Maybe by tomorrow Anna will receive more nasty comments and you guys will feel less salty.

It's not that I want people to hate on her because honestly I understand how much she wanted to skate and persevering she was at this competition but the problem is that it was irresponsible. I just want people to understand that in the middle of a pandemic, people shouldn't refuse temperature checks in order to carry on with a skate, especially when you're going to skate in an arena filled with spectators who aren't wearing masks. And overall, it's just kind of ironic that Alyona was getting hated on and called a diva for not hugging someone because she was actually thinking about Covid.

 

[chasingneverland]

Well I mean she's being vilified for being irresponsible by one person. I'm seeing a lot of posters here defending her choices. The same ones whom I've seen villify Aliona for not giving Sasha a hug (not you, at least I don't think so...?)

My point is actually completely irrelevant because I'm just salty at the character assassinations of Aliona.

No. I think Aliona just forgot or got caught up by what was happening. Also it's not like Sasha seemed offended by that - if I remember correctly they both giggled.

Also nobody hugged anyone on the podium today.

Also, speaking of character assassinations, a certain poster on here, goes out of his way to criticize everything Anna does - from her personality to her technique to her motivation/desire to improve, etc. So don't worry it isn't just Aliona. Sasha also has been attacked (there was one particularly vicious accusation lately.) Same with Liza (because apparently she/her coaches are too old/stupid to try to improve her layout/performance/anything). And now Kamila is the newest to be vilified. (And don't even discuss Rika on this particular forum thread - because her 3A and 4S and overall technique can't possibly come close to competing with Russia.)

I actually think it's possible to have a favourite skater without assuming the worst of her peers. I have favourites, of course, but I actually like at least one aspect (often more than one) of all the top (15 or so - I don't know much beyond that) skaters. I actually think it makes me appreciate what my favourite skaters can do even more to look at what their rivals can do because that's who they go up against each competition. And because they themselves seem to appreciate either others talents. And every one has strengths and weaknesses. But their strengths greatly outweigh their flaws, in each case. They wouldn't be where they were if they didn't. Every one of them amazes me. (Also most of them are children and I don't see the point of assassinating children, especially when I never could do anything like that.)

 

[Shayuki]

The only thing I can say is that it is on Anna that she refused to take the second temperature check before the FP. If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

You think Anna's been treated favorably by fans on a general level? That's completely incorrect.

 

[chasingneverland]

Fine, but if this is how it is no other skater or their team can be criticised.

I don't want to hear another word about Sasha's injury or Liza's COVID.

All bets are off, if a skater arrives limping, can barely breathe after competing or keeps sneezing nothing and I mean nothing can be said.

You can't judge Eteri and her team and by the same token you can't criticise Plushy and the Academy.

No more questioning of Mishin either.

I am holding Anna to the same standard as everyone else.

I said that none of them should have competed. I DID say Anna should have withdrawn. (But I refused to call her out singularly without also calling out Liza, Sasha, Sofia, etc.) I ALSO DID say Sasha and Liza should have withdrawn too. And I argued for all three of them withdrawing after the SP (and was criticized for it.) I stand by that. All three should have withdrawn. But within the rules none of them did anything technically wrong.

I disagree what Anna did was any worse than what Liza, Sofia, and Sasha did as Anna tested negative for COVID. Or do you think Liza (who could also barely make it through her program) was any better? She also could barely breathe? (I don't see you criticizing her as hard as Anna.)

I STILL think all three should not have competed here at nationals, regardless of outcome here. Anna and Sasha had stunning skates here and defied expectations. I can praise them for doing so under tremendous pressure and odds (Anna with a fever and Sasha with a serious injury and needing injections to compete). They made the decisions to compete under the information that was available to them and both were cleared by their doctors to compete. Why would they not when their doctors cleared them to and allowed them to? Isn't the real problem with their doctors? Additionally all three were cleared by the Fed to compete as all passed COVID tests. (Isn't the real problem with the Fed for not moving the competition to allow them (and others to heal)?? Isn't the real problem the regulations and Fed decisions that allowed them to get sick/hurt in the first place and then forced them to want to compete?) (Isn't the real problem the Fed who allows skaters with fevers and serious injuries to complete?) It also isn't new for skaters to compete injured/sick. Anna literally watched Sofia skate with a fever this year. And everyone watched Evgenia skate with a broken foot during the Olympic season.

I can praise them for their accomplishments and the fact of the matter is they both delivered stunning two quad FS (and I don't think that was ever a certainty for either of them.)

However, that wasn't the case for all of them. Liza struggled increasingly through her performance. (I don't see you criticizing her.)

In short, I can praise them for their performances and still criticize the events/coaches/Fed that allowed this to take place. I just refuse to hold Anna to a different standard than everyone else. I'm criticizing all of them (while still praising Anna and Sasha's mental fortitude and competitive spirit.) It just remains to be seen if it was the right decision for any of them. I would argue we already know it wasn't for Liza. (It remains to be seen for the other two.) I'm critiquing the culture that fostered a dangerous environment not the girl(s) who wanted to compete in such environment.

 

[chasingneverland]

It's not that I want people to hate on her because honestly I understand how much she wanted to skate and persevering she was at this competition but the problem is that it was irresponsible. I just want people to understand that in the middle of a pandemic, people shouldn't refuse temperature checks in order to carry on with a skate, especially when you're going to skate in an arena filled with spectators who aren't wearing masks. And overall, it's just kind of ironic that Alyona was getting hated on and called a diva for not hugging someone because she was actually thinking about Covid.

1. We don't actually know what Aliona was thinking there.

2. From what we know of the rules right now, Anna isn't required to skate without a fever anyway.

3. How are you not also criticizing the "spectators who aren't wearing masks" rather than the girl who passed COVID checks. They, unlike Anna, are adults and it isn't their career. Also, they themselves arguably were even more irresponsible by not wearing masks and all sitting together. DO we even know anything about their COVID tests?

4. I'm concerned that you're implying that a 16 year old girl (who HAS tested negative for COVID) is responsible for the health of spectators who are refusing to wear masks and are sitting closely together.

 

[Lzbee]

No. I think Aliona just forgot or got caught up by what was happening. Also it's not like Sasha seemed offended by that - if I remember correctly they both giggled.

Also nobody hugged anyone on the podium today.

Also, speaking of character assassinations, a certain poster on here, goes out of his way to criticize everything Anna does - from her personality to her technique to her motivation/desire to improve, etc. So don't worry it isn't just Aliona. Sasha also has been attacked (there was one particularly vicious accusation lately.) Same with Liza (because apparently she/her coaches are too old/stupid to try to improve her layout/performance/anything). And now Kamila is the newest to be vilified. (And don't even discuss Rika on this particular forum thread - because her 3A and 4S and overall technique can't possibly come close to competing with Russia.)

I actually think it's possible to have a favourite skater without assuming the worst of her peers. I have favourites, of course, but I actually like at least one aspect (often more than one) of all the top (15 or so - I don't know much beyond that) skaters. I actually think it makes me appreciate what my favourite skaters can do even more to look at what their rivals can do because that's who they go up against each competition. And because they themselves seem to appreciate either others talents. And every one has strengths and weaknesses. But their strengths greatly outweigh their flaws, in each case. They wouldn't be where they were if they didn't. Every one of them amazes me. (Also most of them are children and I don't see the point of assassinating children, especially when I never could do anything like that.)

I think I know the poster you're referring to as Anna's hater. Yes, I wish they would leave Anna alone as well.

I want to reiterate my position, character assassination of any skater is not ok. I am just more sensitive to this happening to Aliona as it appears that she unpopular with many Russian skating fans and the sentiment often seeps onto this board.

 

[colormyworld240]

No, my point is not that Anna needs more hate. My point is that Aliona has had unreasonable hate. Like I already said, it's irrelevant to the larger conversation.

But Alena having unreasonable hate doesn't mean that Anna isn't getting it? Did you miss the posts here accusing her of faking illness and skipping Rostelecom to gather sympathy? Or basically saying she is lying for saying she had a negative COVID test. Or doping to win between the SP and the FS. And the most recent one that she is arrogant because she was happy and confident in the interview after winning Skate America as if she should be depressed and ashamed. Not to mention the other things like her "stealing" the Nike sponsorship from more deserving skaters...

 

[chasingneverland]

But why are we encouraging it?

Are we no different from the Ancient Romans, who's idea of sport was watching people literally fight to the death?

Why are we not standing up for more safety in sports? I know none of them will be 100% safe, nothing is, but to ignore danger again and again?

40 years ago you didn't need to wear a helmet in the Tour De France. Can you imagine? They careened downhill at over 60mph with no protective head gear! On the one hand you could call that brave, on the other it's clearly insane. Eventually the rules were changed.

Figure skating seems to just shrug their shoulders at any attempt to make things safer. I don't mean helmets, but concussion protocols, from Yuzuru at CoC to Ashley Cain-Gribble skaters with serious head trauma have been allowed to continue even though it's well known post-concussion is a thing and it can be deadly. Do we have to wait for that to actually happen before it's taken seriously? Even thought we know the danger?

You're all right, I've probably been too hard on Anna, she's learned from everyone around her that nothing else matters but skating and winning. But should she have been taught that? Should competitors of any sport be taught and encouraged to neglect everything else but the win?

Figure skating is so beautiful to watch, but is it worth it if those who take part in it feel that they'll be less worthy if they don't compete no matter what?

We shouldn't be encouraging it. I very strongly disagree with it. (In fact I argued after the SP when I saw Anna's condition after her FS and read all the reports about Anna, Sasha, and Liza, that they should ALL be withdrawn.)

I just refuse to single out one girl when she's not the only one who has made questionable decisions. She's not even the only one at this competition. And she, unlike Sofia at test skates and Liza her, is a minor (as with Sasha) and so not even legally responsible for those decisions.

I refuse to single out one girl - especially a minor who didn't break any laid out rules - when she's the product of her environment and just wanted to skate and win. I would rather criticize the environment. I also refuse to single out Sasha who also despite injuring herself more repeatedly and needing injections just to compete on what even her coach said was "severe trauma" - also just wanted to skate and win. Especially as they're minors. But I also refuse to single out Liza either. Or Sofia earlier. Or anyone else. (All the skaters have done is done the best they can under their respective circumstances.)

The blame lies with the culture and those who perpetuate it - Fed, coaches, etc.

 

[Thrashergurl]

I think Anna’s actions were selfish. Does this mean she didn’t deserve the win? No. It means she was irresponsible and her actions at this particular event were selfish.

I hope that IF a Worlds is held, the CDC guidelines will be in place and enforced, and if a skater refuses any of the tests (including a temperature check) they won’t be able to skate. However, based on what we’ve witnessed so far this season, I don’t see how a Worlds can be held.

 

[chasingneverland]

I think I know the poster you're referring to as Anna's hater. Yes, I wish they would leave Anna alone as well.

I want to reiterate my position, character assassination of any skater is not ok. I am just more sensitive to this happening to Aliona as it appears that she unpopular with many Russian skating fans and the sentiment often seeps onto this board.

Unfortunately, I think, everyone seems unpopular with many skating fans. Especially since the girls themselves have nothing to do with the politics, scores, coaching drama etc.

(For the record, Aliona is one of my favourites. I miss her.)

 

[chasingneverland]

I think Anna’s actions were selfish. Does this mean she didn’t deserve the win? No. It means she was irresponsible and her actions at this particular event were selfish.

I hope that IF a Worlds is held, the CDC guidelines will be in place and enforced, and if a skater refuses any of the tests (including a temperature check) they won’t be able to skate. However, based on what we’ve witnessed so far this season, I don’t see how a Worlds can be held.

I don't think Anna is alone in wanting to skate regardless of illness.

She also wasn't breaking any rules (Russia doesn't apparently have rules against fevers). It isn't new to be allowed to skate with a fever - Sofia did that too. Do you think Sofia was also being selfish in wanting to skating at test skates? They both might have been. But it's not their job to think of others, first of all. Second of all, Anna tested negative for COVID so it's reasonable to assume (with the information she had) that she couldn't give it to others if she herself didn't have it.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Not sure anyone saw this, but here’s a Wall Street Journal Article on Russian Skating’s handling of the pandemic:

Russia’s Skating Dynasty Meets Its Toughest Challenger: Coronavirus

The novel coronavirus has done the impossible, dulling Russia’s skating rat race almost as swiftly as it’s felled the country’s top skaters.

www.wsj.com

nothing about Anna having a fever or coronavirus was mentioned