Plushenko: "What is happening is absurd."

[MintGreen]

That's incorrect.

Maxim was sent - along with Sergei V and Kostya Menshov to Euros, where he folded like a deck chair under the pressure. As he had the previous year at Worlds which resulted in the 1 spot at the Olympics problem anyway! (Funnily enough rather than been torn to shreds and made a person non-grata by the Russian Figure Skating Fed the way Artur Gachinsky was in 2012 for also wilting under pressure and dropping Russia to 1 spot, Maxim was continually supported, but then he was being trained by Tatiana Tarasova at the time)

Now, obviously either Sergei or Kostya should have got the spot, but our good friends at the Russian Figure Skating Fed didn't consider them for one second.

Because they wanted - they needed someone with nerves of steel, who could face the home crowd,(the men's SP was not only the first event of the Teams competition it was the first event of the Games), Plushy was pretty much it.

Now I think either Sergei or Kostya should have had the chance...but if it was between Maxim or Plushy, Plushy was the better choice.

Plushy finished 2nd at nationals, ahead of Sergei and Kostya. So there was a legitimate reason to send Plushy over those two given Maxim crumbled at Euros. Of course, like you said the Fed wouldn’t even consider them for a second.

Tell that to Maxim Kovtun who won Nationals in an Olympic season when Russia had 1 spot for men's and it was given to a skater who had barely competed for several years and had injuries galore.

The RusFed wanted or needed the team gold, the first ever team event hosted in their country, badly, much more than Plushy did. But in the end, it was Plushenko took all the blame for “stealing” the spot. That’s the extremely unfair part. Russia winning gold was not a given. Plushenko should be accoladed as the one who brought confidence and experience to the team and helped to secure the gold with two brilliant performances.

I do feel sorry for Maxim but there wasn’t a well rounded solution. Even Sergei or Kostya had their case. And it’s not like Maxim wasn’t given the opportunities. Had he done better at 2013 worlds, there wouldn’t have been such a problem.

 

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With all my reservations about Plushy as a coach I fully supported and still support the decision of sending him instead of Kovtun. What a disaster it could have been I witnessed in person in Korea. What Evgenij did during the team event was a feat. And I am sure that having him in the team boosted the confidence of others who among everything else were motivated and energized skating along with the legend.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

(Funnily enough rather than been torn to shreds and made a person non-grata by the Russian Figure Skating Fed the way Artur Gachinsky was in 2012 for also wilting under pressure and dropping Russia to 1 spot, Maxim was continually supported, but then he was being trained by Tatiana Tarasova at the time)

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this injustice gets my blood boiling even to this day. I've just re-watched a lot of Artur's programs for the video project and I am confident to say that, given the chance, he would have challenged Javi for some of his European titles. RusFed really did him dirty, what a waste of potential.
Back on topic, I doubt Plushenko on his own would have a chance against RusFed. But maybe it takes one person to speak up and other coaches might follow? It's not as if Mishin's skaters haven't been lowballed time and again. Still, IMO it would be a wiser course of action to do this out of the public's eye to protect the international reputation of Russian figure skating.

 

[flanker]

You take BV - it's the only objective thing. Then there is a combination of GOE and pcs. The only meaningful yet still subjective argument is whether GOE for a particular element or pcs component is too high vs. some standard or other skaters. For me KV sets the standards in many aspects of her skating.

Definitely.

A little basic math. Take this content, for instance (Anna's, because that's the highest BV without the 3A in the ladies category):
2A: 3.30
3F: 5.30
CCoSp4: 3.50
3Lz-3Lo: 11.88x
FCSp4 (for this example, I know she had lvl 2 in friday): 3.20
StSq4: 3.90
LSp4: 2.70

The BV itself is 33.78, ideal max GOE can be 16.35, that makes 50.13 for TES, but if we would count average points +3, which is completely realistic, then we still have 9,8, which gives 43.58 in total (and we've seen more already without 3A) fot TES.
So for reaching 80 we need 36.42 in components (also not unrealistic value), which means 9.105 in average per one component. There is simply no reason why a program without 3A couldn't receive components between 9.00 and 9.25.
Nothing wrong with that IMO.

 

[charlotte14]

Evrybody has the right for its own opinion, of course. Incl. that there is nothing unacceptable on receiving 80+ for a short program without a 3A. 80 points is a number, not very significant one, just optically it looks better "rounded" than let's say 78.57. The barrier you see at 80 is purely psychological.

I'd say IMO it's "unacceptable" because the quality they executed was average. Is that clear? I saw them live, their jumps were small, their speed was slow. After watching them I felt nothing wow compared to the scores they got. But yes, feel free to disagree.
The girl who truly wowed me live was Alena Kostornaia. And I have no issue with her scores.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this injustice gets my blood boiling even to this day. I've just re-watched a lot of Artur's programs for the video project and I am confident to say that, given the chance, he would have challenged Javi for some of his European titles. RusFed really did him dirty, what a waste of potential.
Back on topic, I doubt Plushenko on his own would have a chance against RusFed. But maybe it takes one person to speak up and other coaches might follow? It's not as if Mishin's skaters haven't been lowballed time and again. Still, IMO it would be a wiser course of action to do this out of the public's eye to protect the international reputation of Russian figure skating.

Please, let’s not pretend that Plushenko himself didn’t push hard to question Kovtun’s legitimacy and competitiveness as Russia’s representative, even though he was beaten by him at Nationals. Had Plushenko went to Euros and beaten Kovtun there then a case could be made but he didn’t even compete... and then some “closed door test skate” bs - in which Kovtun himself didn’t get to compete against Plushenko - supposedly convinced everyone. When it was really all set in place from the get-go that Plushenko wanted to go to Sochi to score the easy team medal. And Plushenko even had the “graciousness” to say he would compete in the team and another Russian could compete in the individual event until it was pointed out that he had to do both. The latter of which he pulled out of after he had scored his gold medal.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Please, let’s not pretend that Plushenko himself didn’t push hard to question Kovtun’s legitimacy and competitiveness as Russia’s representative, even though he was beaten by him at Nationals. Had Plushenko went to Euros and beaten Kovtun there then a case could be made but he didn’t even compete... and then some “closed door test skate” bs - in which Kovtun himself didn’t get to compete against Plushenko - supposedly convinced everyone. When it was really all set in place from the get-go that Plushenko wanted to go to Sochi to score the easy team medal. And Plushenko even had the “graciousness” to say he would compete in the team and another Russian could compete in the individual event until it was pointed out that he had to do both. The latter of which he pulled out of after he had scored his gold medal.

Hmm, I think there was a misunderstanding, I wasn't talking about the 2014 Plushenko/Kovtun situation. My outrage was directed towards the way RusFed discarded Artur Gachinski after one bad competition. My bad for going off-topic in this thread, but since @anonymoose_au mentioned it, the memories of that whole mess came back to my mind.

 

[flanker]

I'd say IMO it's "unacceptable" because the quality they executed was average. Is that clear? I saw them live, their jumps were small, their speed was slow. After watching them I felt nothing wow compared to the scores they got. But yes, feel free to disagree.
The girl who truly wowed me live was Alena Kostornaia. And I have no issue with her scores.

Just that the original statement (not related to those skaters)

I am just saying 80 or 82 or 85 for SP without 3A is unacceptable.

has no background, because that would simply require that triples aren't allowed to gain higher mark than +2 and that such program is not allowed to receive higher components than 9.00.

What is your personal opinion on this or that skater and that for you only Aliona is worthy to receive such score has little to no importance to me. Many times this or that person says "I felt nothing" where I felt something a vice versa.

 

[charlotte14]

Just that the original statement (not related to those skaters)


has no background, because that would simply require that triples aren't allowed to gain higher mark than +2 and that such program is not allowed to receive higher components than 9.00.

What is your personal opinion on this or that skater and that for you only Aliona is worthy to receive such score has little to no importance to me. Many times this or that person says "I felt nothing" where I felt something a vice versa.

Nah, I was lazy so I did not type it clear enough. The thing is, I saw them live and they were just... meh. So those numbers do not seem to be justified or "acceptable". Indeed it is rare to see a lady skate so well to the point "WOW 80-85 is fine". But that is what I am saying, it has to feel "WOWWWWW" and I did not see that and it was average.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hmm, I think there was a misunderstanding, I wasn't talking about the 2014 Plushenko/Kovtun situation. My outrage was directed towards the way RusFed discarded Artur Gachinski after one bad competition. My bad for going off-topic in this thread, but since @anonymoose_au mentioned it, the memories of that whole mess came back to my mind.

Sorry, I thought I had quoted @anonymoose’s post on page 5 about steel nerves and all that stuff. And yes, the Russian fed was not great to Gachinski, but at least he had his World bronze!!

 

[Scott512]

Have you read Plushchenko's recent interview where he accuses judges of bribery? I wonder if RusFed has some sort of ethics commission? Such insolence should not go unpunished.

Agreed. The ethics commission of the Russian federation may come after him. And for him to complain about KV like he continually does is poor sportsmanship never seen before in the illustrious history of Russian figure skating.. Stay classy man stay classy. The Eteri bounce is real. Build a dynasty by coaching and you might get a Plushenko bounce for your skaters. But by the time that happens Alions could be a neurosurgeon.

Why Evgeni why?

As great as Plushenka was and he was the GOAT before Yuzu he got over scored many times in his career. All the great ones do. All his complaining about Kamila is gonna get her to want fo punish any girl hes coaching in the future! And she has the game to do so. Can you imagine if Kamila actually masters of 3A? It's going to happen it's just a matter of when.

 

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[trkvy]

Trusova's unclear 3F was a clear b/s.

The overall idea was to strip Sasha from 2nd place and drop her from the Words Team.

Was it?

 

[trkvy]

Really? They called it UR? Then how did she get 80 in that program?

Maybe you'd better read protocols before posting smth about the score?

 

[trkvy]

I don't know was he drunk or he is just an idiot, but no sane person could make such unsupported bribery accusations.

 

[Alex65]

I don't know was he drunk or he is just an idiot, but no sane person could make such usupported bribery accusations.

The entire Russian system is riddled with corruption. In sports as well. This is not a secret for any of the Russians. Plushenko knows what he's talking about. He spent his whole life in this environment. He should know that fighting corruption in Russia is Sisyphean's work. He tries to fight for justice for his athletes in any way. Оnly this . I want to believe that he knows what he is doing, and that he will achieve the result in this.
Only an absolutely unprincipled person who justifies corruption, or a complete idiot, zombified by propaganda, can call an outstanding person in sports who is trying to defend his legal rights to justice. I don't know which one you are, but you did it.
I will add for the uninformed. Justice in Russia now is not about universal honesty and righteous judgment. People are not idiots and understand that this is not possible. It's more about equal rights on unrighteous judgment.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Was it?

Receipts!

She’s lucky it was only a “!”.

 

[Amei]

My problem fundamentally with his comments, outside of the fact that the bribery comments are a huge no-no unless you have solid evidence to back your claims up, is that he's an active coach with skaters that are actively competing and getting some advantageous calls of their own. If you want to get on your pulpit about bad judging then the only way it works is that you have to be that way about all bad judging and an active coach is not only not going to call out bad judging when it's in their skater's favor but in all likelihood they will find a way to excuse it.

 

[Alex65]

Receipts!

She’s lucky it was only a “!”.

We can say that Sasha was lucky. But who is more fortunate? All these jumps got no "!" or "e" in general.

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[Alex65]

Wait to see that people would say Plushenko is within his right to complain the scoring of his own skaters, however, in regarding to the clips above, it is completely unacceptable, unprofessional and unethical for Plushenko to comment on the scoring of other skaters. Therefore, whether those jumps should get called "!" or "e" is totally irrelevant.

If the judgment is manifestly unfair and biased, but the coach has no right to say this? An interesting point of view. And who has this right? Me or you? Who cares about our opinion ..