2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Amei]

Indeed, I thought Anna, Aliona and Alexandra were already big stars, although I guess it's true their names aren't recognisable globally like Usain Bolt or Roger Federer. But as far as figure skating goes they're pretty famous.

Could they be more famous if one of them won the Olympics? I guess, apparently Alina Z has appeared on Nike posters outside of Russia - I think in New York even, which is pretty cool.

But as it is I don't see that even winning the Olympics would make one if them more hugely popular than the others. Although being super popular in Japan certainly helps! They have amazing line-ups for their shows. My hope is to one day go to one since Japan is much closer to Australia than any of the other big skating countries. Plus my older brother and his family live there, so it'd be win, win!

That's super impressive considering she's sponsored by Puma

I think it is best for the sport if the best skater at the time wins, not if a federation pushes an athlete, young or older, for any political reasons. Kamila seems well equipped to fight for Olympic gold and I hope she, as well as the others, have a fair chance for winning it.

Agree, but we know that's not what always happens.

"Puberty" doesn't last for only a few months....
Shcherbakova only had one good competition so far ( nationals), which doesn't say a lot about her form in 3 months. Trusova is as inconsistent as always, but i don't know where you see Kostornaia "struggling"? Just because she doesn't have her 3A back yet? She is still the same skater as before, but people's perception changes all the time Interestingly, you mocking the "puberty" prediction of others, but in the end you're doing the same thing with Kostornaia in this case Let's not fly to high just because of one competition

Well the heart of my comment was about the remarks of the survival of the ultra difficult jumps; the predictions were that Kostornaia and her triple axel would survive as it has a track record of being done post-puberty vs. the quads - Trusova and Shcherbakova both have their quads back and Shcherbakova has gotten her least consistent quad more consistent and looking quite good this season; whereas Kostornaia doesn't have triple axel back at this point (if you want to go compare last season to this season her performance level in general is not as crisp)

 

[Vilord]

Interesting for Kamila. I thought Lutz was a good jump for her! Are there any videos of her solo Salchow to see the quality?

The biggest advantage with Lutz is easy speed and lift from the toe-pick, but Sal does have the rotation advantage I guess.

She gets good GOE but when it comes to jump biomechanics I think its her worst jump. She just doesnt get the extra height from using the toepick at all. Im allways surpried she manages to rotate it as well as she does.

I dont think Ive see any videos of solo 3S but the ones she does in combo have generally good quality

 

[Vilord]

That's super impressive considering she's sponsored by Puma

 

[Vilord]

Her problem jump for the Russian cup competitions was really the lutz (out of the four falls she had, 3 were on lutzes). I would almost think 4F is more possible than 4Lz for her. I'm no physics master, but I would suppose that since she doesn't really lift from the toe-pick it makes it harder to get height and distance. But she got the 4T with that technique so who knows?

Her picking technique on the 4T/3T is much better than on the 3F and 3Lz its something in the timing thats just a bit off there so I find it unlikely that she like Anna would get that extra needed height to make them quads. But since we have never seen any attempts we cant relly say for sure

 

[anonymoose_au]

That's super impressive considering she's sponsored by Puma

Oh dear.

Make that the Puma store in New York... Which I find cool because I'm not sure even Yuzu has shown up in an international ad!

 

[colormyworld240]

The status of Anna's injury is one of the biggest mysteries. If it doesn't affect her anymore I could see that as the next quad. Training it end of 2019 suggests she's willing to try again.

But from what I understand, she's always preferred the highest value quads route and limited quantity. 3 quads will already limit the program aesthetic, 4 is even worse. So I can't see space for it.

I think those are just the ones she can do. She had the 4T as her first one, but said she can't do it after injury. 3S Anna's worst jump so likely no 4S. Her solo 3Lo was good, but she also broke her leg on a -3Lo so maybe too traumatic to try 4Lo.

With the 4Lz and 4F, looking at her jumps and reading about her experiences, I'd say 3A is her next big jump. Her 2A has always been one of her stronger, if not strongest, jumps. From what was measured at the GPF, the stats are essentially the same as Kamila's, with less speed.

 

[Draculus]

She would be the first woman in the world to land a quad and a 3A in the same program.

Rika is that woman already.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Rika is that woman already.

Alysa Liu??
Also Rika only did that domestically. If we counted domestic events, then it would really be:
1. Alysa Liu
2. Sofia Akatieva
3. Sofia Samodelkina
4. Rika Kihira

 

[Draculus]

Interestingly unlike Mao and Liza who basically stand still before their 3A and try to jump high, Kamila jumps long. It's the distance she jumps with her flow and long legs that's supposed to give the time for the 3 rotations.

This is against physics, only height is directly related to time in the air. Long distance (horizonal) does not.

 

[Draculus]

Alysa Liu??
Also Rika only did that domestically. If we counted domestic events, then it would really be:
1. Alysa Liu
2. Sofia Akatieva
3. Sofia Samodelkina
4. Rika Kihira

I meant within seniors.

 

[Tonight's the Night]

This is against physics, only height is directly related to time in the air. Long distance (horizonal) does not.

Time of Flight Calculator – Projectile Motion

Check out how long a projectile remains in the air with this time of flight calculator.

www.omnicalculator.com

Isn't it the case that the higher the takeoff angle the more time in the air you get? So the tradeoff seems to be that you will have less speed on the landing. Given a constant speed before you commit to an angle.

Of course there are other factors, like the efficiency, friction-wise, of the takeoff. But more or less is makes sense: Liza T. jumps at a high angle on her 3A. Alyona jumps at a lesser angle on hers. But Alyona also has so much more speed going in that she also gets great height. (0.56 meters at 2019 GPF.)

But I expect this has been spelled out nicely before somewhere on this golden forum.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Does someone know the name of the green-haired Anna's cousin? Is he a superstar star in Russia?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJglfXhp_dq/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Vilord]

Time of Flight Calculator – Projectile Motion

Check out how long a projectile remains in the air with this time of flight calculator.

www.omnicalculator.com

Isn't it the case that the higher the takeoff angle the more time in the air you get? So the tradeoff seems to be that you will have less speed on the landing. Given a constant speed before you commit to an angle.

Of course there are other factors, like the efficiency, friction-wise, of the takeoff. But more or less is makes sense: Liza T. jumps at a high angle on her 3A. Alyona jumps at a lesser angle on hers. But Alyona also has so much more speed going in that she also gets great height. (0.56 meters at 2019 GPF.)

But I expect this has been spelled out nicely before somewhere on this golden forum.

The air time is directly related to the height achived. But when taking off of a jump you can use the toe picks to transfer some horisontial speed to vertical. But in skating unlike a projectile it isnt possible to aim strait up and therefore the angle is relly more an indication of how much excess horisontial speed you com in with than the height.

Another important thing that has noting to do with the physics of a projectile is how quickly a skater can snap into rotation. Some skaters find that with more speed it is harder to do this as quickly and is probably therefore they do difficult jumps with low speed.

Edit: In the case of a projectile its assumed that it launches in the same velocity regardless of the angle. And in that cae it makes sense that if you direct as much of that velocity upwards as possible you will get the maximum height. But jumping doesnt quite work the same way. A skater will allways lose speed when jumping because the mechanics of a human body is just different from the mechanics of a canon (obviously).

 

[Tonight's the Night]

The air time is directly related to the height achived. But when taking off of a jump you can use the toe picks to transfer some horisontial speed to vertical. But in skating unlike a projectile it isnt possible to aim strait up and therefore the angle is relly more an indication of how much excess horisontial speed you com in with than the height.

Indeed, I agree with you and draculus that air time varies directly with height; it would have to, given that the only downward force is gravity, right? But the amount of height you get depends on the incoming angle: the greater the angle, the greater the height -- and thus the greater the air time. I don't quite follow your third sentence.

I guess it just seems to me that every skater is going to make a decision about whether she's going to try for more of the low-angle approach or the high-angle approach, and we see different approaches in different skaters. I think that the high-angle approach is usually paired with less incoming speed and the low-angle approach is usually paired with more incoming speed.

Which I now see is maybe what you mean with your third sentence...

Another important thing that has noting to do with the physics of a projectile is how quickly a skater can snap into rotation. Some skaters find that with more speed it is harder to do this as quickly and is probably therefore they do difficult jumps with low speed.

This is super interesting and previously unknown to me, thank you!

 

[Vilord]

Indeed, I agree with you and draculus that air time varies directly with height; it would have to, given that the only downward force is gravity, right? But the amount of height you get depends on the incoming angle: the greater the angle, the greater the height -- and thus the greater the air time. I don't quite follow your third sentence.

I guess it just seems to me that every skater is going to make a decision about whether she's going to try for more of the low-angle approach or the high-angle approach, and we see different approaches in different skaters. I think that the high-angle approach is usually paired with less incoming speed and the low-angle approach is usually paired with more incoming speed.

Which I now see is maybe what you mean with your third sentence...

The thing about height is its not really the angle that matters but the amount of vertical velocity you can get at takeoff. The angle is really the difference between vertical and horisontial speed but the horisontial speed has no real impact of the air time. The reason it matters in the case of the projectile is that it is assumed that the total launching velocity is the same regardless of angle and then the higher the angle the more vertical velocity. But that assumtion doesnt hold up for skating.

Therefore a skater that comes into the jump with great speed will use some of that to get vertical speed but still have some left over. Where as a skater with low incoming speed might use almost all of that to gain vertical speed. It is in these cases completely possible for these two skaters to take off with the same vertical velocity and therefore get the same height but the first skater will have a much lower angle than the second due to having more horisontial speed.

 

[starlight97]

Alysa Liu??
Also Rika only did that domestically. If we counted domestic events, then it would really be:
1. Alysa Liu
2. Sofia Akatieva
3. Sofia Samodelkina
4. Rika Kihira

If you wanted to count national competitions then WR and all things would look very different, there's reasons most people don't.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

The status of Anna's injury is one of the biggest mysteries. If it doesn't affect her anymore I could see that as the next quad. Training it end of 2019 suggests she's willing to try again.

But from what I understand, she's always preferred the highest value quads route and limited quantity. 3 quads will already limit the program aesthetic, 4 is even worse. So I can't see space for it.

Last season there were clips of Anna trying a 4T on a harness again. So seems like they tried to get it back (and it didn't work out? Or they decided to focus on the 3A)

 

[Amei]

I think those are just the ones she can do. She had the 4T as her first one, but said she can't do it after injury. 3S Anna's worst jump so likely no 4S. Her solo 3Lo was good, but she also broke her leg on a -3Lo so maybe too traumatic to try 4Lo.

With the 4Lz and 4F, looking at her jumps and reading about her experiences, I'd say 3A is her next big jump. Her 2A has always been one of her stronger, if not strongest, jumps. From what was measured at the GPF, the stats are essentially the same as Kamila's, with less speed.

Shcherbakova said in an interview earlier this season that after stabilizing her quads she would work on getting the triple axel.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

If I were Trusova I'd be practicing run-throughs of an Olympic program with most quads possible (4 quads reasonably), then when the important competitions come I'd react to Anna if she skated before me.
If Anna fell once i'd remove a quad and shoot for three.
If Anna fell twice I'd only jump 2 quads.
If I were skating before Anna I'd play it midway and shoot for three quads, and hope that Anna fell once.

The SP 3A depends wildly on Trusova's future consistency with it. If the jump is 90% in practice, then I'd attempt. If not, then the upside isn't worth the massive loss of points from falling/downgrading.

 

[chasingneverland]

If I were Trusova I'd be practicing run-throughs of an Olympic program with most quads possible (4 quads reasonably), then when the important competitions come I'd react to Anna if she skated before me.
If Anna fell once i'd remove a quad and shoot for three.
If Anna fell twice I'd only jump 2 quads.
If I were skating before Anna I'd play it midway and shoot for three quads, and hope that Anna fell once.

The SP 3A depends wildly on Trusova's future consistency with it. If the jump is 90% in practice, then I'd attempt. If not, then the upside isn't worth the massive loss of points from falling/downgrading.

That's incredibly reactionary and I don't think would actually help Sasha. She already doesn't like skating last or after others. And that will mess with her warmup. Also skates need to rely on their muscle memory and confidence of prior training not on what skaters ahead of them do. Besides Sasha's biggest problem seems to be mental. That actually forces her to focus even more on what others do and could lead to a meltdown in a program when she feels like she HAS to be clean. It's one thing to plan with what your competitors are doing and in the practices leading up to it. It's a completely different thing to make that decision RIGHT before her skate. Especially because Sasha (and others can't control how they'll be scored and their PCS) they can only control what they do on the ice.