Plushenko: "What is happening is absurd."

[kolyadafan2002]

Well, I have a problem with Anna‘s lutz edges not being called, too, but in this example, I think her scoring higher than Sasha is justified.

You say Anna‘s quads are “pre-rotated and with a full-blade take-off“ but... if you want to call it that - so are Sasha‘s! At least on the quad lutz! Their take off looks the exact same. And here Anna had a better, smoother landing. Not to mention that Sasha‘s landing looked borderline UR. So, if you deduct points for Anna‘s edges, but also deduct points for Sasha‘s q (or UR) landing, you end up at about the same GOE. If not an advantage for Anna if they’d called Sasha’s quad UR. I don‘t think the rippon changes that much - is it even still a GOE bullet?

I do agree that Sasha was more penalized than others here (though, let‘s not kid ourselves, she also got some gifts by the judges) - especially in the SP, where she should have been closer to the leaders. And overall, I disagree with the difference of almost 20 (!) points between her and Anna. Where did that come from? They both did really, really well but not perfectly and it should have been much closer than it ended up being. Still, I think Anna‘s the deserved champion and now an absolute legend with those three titles.

The problem with Plushenko‘s complaining is that it‘s so selective and over the top. I appreciate him trying to change things but I don‘t think he has the right motivation - if it was his skaters being overscored, I doubt he‘d say a word. Which is...natural but also makes him look like a hypocrite.

Sasha's first one was clean, second I'd call q/UR.
I'd definitely call Anna's 4lz q/UR if I looked in slow motion when considering the angle and trajectory, despite looking backwards in fast motion.

 

[Alex65]

....Sasha's quad at nationals can be judged with +2 at max, due to the not good landing (lack of full rotation on the landing) and jump not being integral part of the whole skating programme.

At first. She really got + 2.1 GOE for this jump.
Secondly. It is not better and not worse than Anna. Does this riding on two legs with lowered arms really contribute to the involvement of the jump in the program? https://youtu.be/0_KhxKAhRQE?t=9411
How can you explain Sasha's low GOE for 4Lz + 3T, which was excellently done, in relation to Anna, who received huge GOE for both of her quads?

 

[sinus]

Pluschenko tried to avoid another disaster by changing program layouts so that Sasha could skate both programs cleanly

Sasha just couldn't jump 3A or 4T/4S because of injury.

 

[MintGreen]

That's why not every judges mark is counted in the final scores (minimum and maximum mark in the panel of judges is omitted from the final scores), as it is the case with many of the marks of that particular judge. He/she can certainly explain to you his/her decisions, but in a statistical sense some of the scores of that judge can be define as an error, and they are being eliminated.

Thanks for your input. Sounds like you feel the score is unexplainably out of norm or erroneous as well?

If Plushy feels the same thing or knows more that we do, he has every right to speak up his mind and defend his skaters.

 

[sinus]

If Plushy feels the same thing or knows more that we do, he has every right to speak up his mind and defend his skaters.

He sounds like a sore loser publically accusing judges of bribery without a single evidence presented.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Well, I have a problem with Anna‘s lutz edges not being called, too, but in this example, I think her scoring higher than Sasha is justified.

You say Anna‘s quads are “pre-rotated and with a full-blade take-off“ but... if you want to call it that - so are Sasha‘s! At least on the quad lutz! Their take off looks the exact same. And here Anna had a better, smoother landing. Not to mention that Sasha‘s landing looked borderline UR. So, if you deduct points for Anna‘s edges, but also deduct points for Sasha‘s q (or UR) landing, you end up at about the same GOE.

Their takeoffs do not look the same at all in the video I posted. Look at the direction Shcherbakova is facing on her takeoff when her blade leaves the ice. Her pre-rotation here means her landing is extremely UR.

 

[MintGreen]

He sounds like a sore loser publically accusing judges of bribery without a single evidence presented.

Well, I am not so sure about the claim that he doesn't have a single shred of evidence. Or he is under any obligation to present it to me or most of the posters on this forum.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

He sounds like a sore loser publically accusing judges of bribery without a single evidence presented.

His skater lost, and didn't get as many points as desired. That's all the evidence he needs apparently.

The worst part of all of this is that Trusova was splendid, and Plushenko's complaining can also gaslight her into thinking the judges have it in for her, instead of Plushenko motivating her to simply get better. Such thinking can wrack a skater's confidence.

I'm sure if Trusova won, he would then complain that the margin of victory wasn't big enough.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Thanks for your input. Sounds like you feel the score is unexplainably out of norm or erroneous as well?

If Plushy feels the same thing or knows more that we do, he has every right to speak up his mind and defend his skaters.

You can say how some marks are out of 'norm', but the scoring system is already made to 'protect' skater in that particular case you mentioned. I'm personally not seeing any reason to complain in that way. Even if Anna really got a couple of points more than she should, that is always the case with the reigning champion at every Nationals and it is not something new in the world of sports. He certainly knows that. At the end of the day, Anna was the clear winner (at least to me). And I don't think that the difference of more than ten points (or less than ten points otherwise) should be that important thing to consider. It's not like the points difference will have an impact or decide the outcome of their next competition as it is happening in some other sports.

 

[MintGreen]

His skater lost, and didn't get as many points as desired. That's all the evidence he needs apparently.

The worst part of all of this is that Trusova was splendid, and Plushenko's complaining can also gaslight her into thinking the judges have it in for her, instead of Plushenko motivating her to simply get better. Such thinking can wrack a skater's confidence.

I'm sure if Trusova won, he would then complain that the margin of victory wasn't big enough.

Trusova skated so splendid that she lost by a 18 points margin with comparable BV. And she has to believe that it is fair and unbiased judging. That certainly helps her confidence.

 

[Alex65]

His skater lost, and didn't get as many points as desired. That's all the evidence he needs apparently.

The worst part of all of this is that Trusova was splendid, and Plushenko's complaining can also gaslight her into thinking the judges have it in for her, instead of Plushenko motivating her to simply get better. Such thinking can wrack a skater's confidence.

I'm sure if Trusova won, he would then complain that the margin of victory wasn't big enough.

I think that your fears in this are unfounded. There is no reason to worry. Everyone could see how Anna and Sasha communicated carefree and cheerfully at the awards ceremony and press conference. These girls are better than the adults around them.

 

[sinus]

Well, I am not so sure about the claim that he doesn't have a single shred of evidence. Or he is under any obligation to present it to me or most of the posters on this forum.

I don't know if he has anything and I don't oblige him to do anything. I'm just saying that he sounds like a sore loser publically accusing judges of bribery without a single evidence presented.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Trusova skated so splendid that she lost by a 18 points margin with comparable BV. And she has to believe that it is fair and unbiased judging. That certainly helps her confidence.

Yeah, but the grade of execution was better by the top 2 skaters (especially Anna), and artistically they're much better than Trusova. All of them were overscored (I'd put Anna around the 72 ish mark, and Trusova and Valieva both sub 70.

Sorry, but Trusova is all quads - and she is capable of doing 2 more of them, and would need to do 2 more in order to hang with Scherbackova. Also, instead of complaining about her flip ! edge, they should see that as a reason to improve it. I hope Plushenko isn't telling her "the judges were just wrong, your flip is fine" because if she skates internationally, the same call might be applied to her.

 

[readernick]

Yeah, but the grade of execution was better by the top 2 skaters (especially Anna), and artistically they're much better than Trusova. All of them were overscored (I'd put Anna around the 72 ish mark, and Trusova and Valieva both sub 70.

Sorry, but Trusova is all quads - and she is capable of doing 2 more of them, and would need to do 2 more in order to hang with Scherbackova. Also, instead of complaining about her flip ! edge, they should see that as a reason to improve it. I hope Plushenko isn't telling her "the judges were just wrong, your flip is fine" because if she skates internationally, the same call might be applied to her.

Don't really disagree with what you say. Trusova's quads here didn't really deserve high GOE and she definitely shouldn't be getting particularly high PCS. She should also work on her flip edge. However, the degree of overscoring for Valieva and Anna at nationals was insane ( both PCS and GOE) as was the fact that no other skater ( excluding Sasha) including Anna( who most definitely has edge issues) was called. Plus both Trusova and Anna had one UR quad that wasn't called, but Anna got really high GOE on hers It isn't correct judging. However, the best thing for Trusova and Plushenko to do is work hard and fix the problems. Prove how biased the scoring is by scoring better internationally. Claims of bribery do no good.

 

[MintGreen]

You can say how some marks are out of 'norm', but the scoring system is already made to 'protect' skater in that particular case you mentioned. I'm personally not seeing any reason to complain in that way. Even if Anna really got a couple of points more than she should, that is always the case with the reigning champion at every Nationals and it is not something new in the world of sports. He certainly knows that. At the end of the day, Anna was the clear winner (at least to me). And I don't think that the difference of more than ten points (or less than ten points otherwise) should be that important thing to consider. It's not like the points difference will have an impact or decide the outcome of their next competition as it is happening in some other sports.

Thanks for replying my post. I understand how the overall score works. So you admit in this case the system works to "protect" the skater. Protect from what? Aren't the judges alway right? And "thankful" for the layer of "protection". Had the judge be one of the "norm", Sasha would have left without a medal. I assume in that case, many on this forum would still say the judges are alway right because they know better than us here?

Perhaps you don't mind me asking, do you truly believe placing Daria ahead of Sasha in free skate despite 16 points BV difference in this particular competition, based on their actual performance, is out of impartial and professional judgement, within the statistical fluctuation? Maybe I shouldn't address this question directly to you. But since you're so patiently explaining to me perhaps you don't mind to comment the obvious thing to me.

I'm not disputing the final ranking of the top three. To me it is in the right order. My point is the overall score and edge calls heavily favored other three skaters over Sasha. Judge no 6. is a prominent example. If there was something shady going on Plushenko has every right to raise his concern.

 

[MintGreen]

I don't know if he has anything and I don't oblige him to do anything. I'm just saying that he sounds like a sore loser publically accusing judges of bribery without a single evidence presented.

I'm confused. If you don't know, then what is the point of your argument? Is it passing judgement prematurely?

I don't necessarily agree with everything Plushenko said or the way he handled the situation. But he has his fair share of benefit of doubt from me.

 

[sinus]

I'm confused. If you don't know, then what is the point of your argument?

My point is that he accused judges of bribery without presenting any evidence. I don't guess what he knows of don't know, he don't say any facts. Accusation is baseless unless it's substantiated. If next time he will accuse of bribery judges from Japan, US or France the same way are you gonna be ok with that?

 

[MintGreen]

My point is that he accused judges of bribery without presenting any evidence. I don't guess what he knows of don't know, he don't say any facts. Accusation is baseless unless it's substantiated. If next time he will accuse of bribery judges from Japan, US or France the same way are you gonna be ok with that?

It seems like this is going on in circle. My point is that neither you or me know if he had presented evidence to Rusfed or not. Then why you insist that "he accused judges of bribery without presenting any evidence."?

 

[sinus]

It seems like this is going on in circle. My point is that neither you or me know if he had presented evidence to Rusfed or not. Then why you insist that "he accused judges of bribery without presenting any evidence."?

Do you have any information that he presented any evidence to RusFed? No. Nobody has. He didn't say he did, RusFed didn't say he did. So all we hear is his cheap talk about 'bribery' etc. There no such thing as secretly substantiated public accusations.

 

[Pale]

Anna's quads were fully rotated. No need to make up a call that fits your agenda when you don't have any arguments left