Ladies' Long Program
- Thread starter fumie_fumie
- Start date
Those cheekbones!!!
A poster on the MKF posted a link to a downloadable clip of Caroline's LP as it was shown on widescreen on NBC. I wasn't too impressed with her skate watching it on the crappy Russian WebTV streaming broadcast, but her program really does bring chills, especially when she hits the spiral as the voices come in. I recommend watching this version if possible, it really does make a whole lot of difference.
To me, watching Ladies is usually like watching Showgirls:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0114436/
lots and lots of bad acting.
I'm not happy seeing Miki joining the club, b/c I like the girl.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0114436/
lots and lots of bad acting.
I'm not happy seeing Miki joining the club, b/c I like the girl.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
That's not a good comparison at all. Evan both underrotated and fell on the opening part of this combination jump at this recent competition. So, in addition to making that jump worth 0 points, he also lost the points for the second jump too.
Those deductions in the SP for Sarah would have been minor or non-existing these days. Didn't complete a full Spiral Sequence pattern? Doesn't matter. There is no such thing. A Spiral Sequence requires 3 Spiral positions in both the SP and LP. There are various other requirements to score well but the pattern you create is not one of them. Her Spiral Sequence surely would have scored lower than Michelle's, though, yes.
The 3Flutz + 2Loop wasn't cheated to where it would have been downgraded. She would have lost -1 GOE and that's it. The Flip wasn't two-footed, either, she just had a tight landing. The toepick of the free foot maybe brushed the ice slightly. Would have been a -1 GOE at most.
There's no way of knowing, but I'm pretty sure the way she skated in the LP vs. the way Michelle skated would have let her win the Gold medal under CoP. Sarah had 2 Triple-Triples and made no big mistakes (just the Flutz) vs. Michelle having no Triple-Triple, a double-footed jump, a bad Flip, and only slightly higher presentation marks.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
About all the downgrading, etc., the absolute worst thing that can happen to a spectator sport is for the outcome to be determined by the referees decisions instead of by the performances of the athletes.
When the crowd leaves the stadium they should be talking about, wow, wasn't that exciting, did you see that great skate? Rather than having folks scratching their heads saying, well, she skated like crap but I guess maybe she got away with her cheated jumps while the other girl got caught.
When the crowd leaves the stadium they should be talking about, wow, wasn't that exciting, did you see that great skate? Rather than having folks scratching their heads saying, well, she skated like crap but I guess maybe she got away with her cheated jumps while the other girl got caught.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
Oh, most definitely. The GOE marks need to be kept out of it entirely. I also don't think the actual penalty of the downgrade itself should be as severe (I know some of you have heard me say this a million times, but, an underrotated Triple is NOT a double and it's harder to do an underrotated Triple than a Double -- it should be worth more).
The act of the downgrade being applied should be happening frequently, though. (assuming that people make the mistake)
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
i thought that there were some good moments in miki's perfomance. She made a good carmen but terrible dress.
Here's the pic:
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20071028/i/r395910767.jpg?
The vids are on fsvids
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
Here's a pic of Mira
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/photo?sportId=1850&photoId=1721084
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/photo?sportId=1850&photoId=1721084
I don't disagree but curious: do you think Evan should have gold, or Miki, or Caroline? I can see why Takahashi won given the short and fell like it was close; with the women, I'm truly less sure....but i THINK it was between Miki and Kimmie and I'm talking gut reaction, not CoP
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
Well I certanly wasn't scratching my head. I thought the results were pretty much right on for the ladies.
And downgrades shouldn't be taken away just becuase the audience doesn't see or understand them, that's worse for the sport not better.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually I liked it just fine. But I could not for the life of me see anything in it that remotely referenced the music.I take it you did not like Kimmie's performance.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I didnt think it was that bad. I guess the fact she seemed so much more confident and sure of herself then Miki had me not noticing a detachment from her skating to the music too much.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
My $0.02 on the ladies' LP...
ITA with most of the comments about Mira's new look. I wouldn't even have recognized her this afternoon! I don't know whether Mira or someone on her team have read any of the "makeover" comments posted here and on certain other boards, but she's definitely made a huge step in the right direction, both in her appearance and her skating.
She still needs to improve her speed, among other things (if she comes across that slow on TV, I can only imagine how much slower she must be live!) But for the first time, Mira truly looks like she belongs among the senior ladies, and that's a big step in the right direction.
Despite Emily's jump problems, I really like her new LP. I can't think of too many women who could pull off "Carmina Burana," but I think it's a perfect choice for Emily since she's such a powerful skater. I hope she can skate it cleanly sometime this season, and I hope she can combine Harvard and skating as successfully as a certain other skater who once used this music.
This was the first time I've seen Caroline skate other than the 2007 US Nationals gala, and while I agree she's got a lot of potential, her skating is still kind of juniorish to me, and she needs to work not only on completely rotating her jumps, but adding more inbetween the jumps and her awesome spins. Those last two spins, in particular, really made me go "ouch!"
I thought her placement was fair and a great accomplishment for her first senior GP event. I'm looking forward to seeing how she progresses and I hope someday, she can live up to all the hype.
I actually liked both Miki's program and her costume, and thought it worked well for her artistically, despite the jump problems.
I also thought Kimmie's program worked really well for her and she's really improved artistically since last season. I agree she deserved her gold here and thought she had the best costume in the final group.
As for the whole downgrading debate, maybe the judges used it a little too harshly at this competition, but I don't have a problem with underrotated jumps getting deducted overall. The judges also deduct heavily for popped jumps under COP, IIRC, and there were also a lot of those in this event. If this motivates skaters to learn proper technique and fully rotate their jumps, I have no problem with it.
And I'm also disappointed NBC chacked the winning pairs and dance LPs, except for those very brief clips at the very end.
I know I can see those programs on certain other sites, but it's still not the same as watching it on my own TV somehow.
ITA with most of the comments about Mira's new look. I wouldn't even have recognized her this afternoon! I don't know whether Mira or someone on her team have read any of the "makeover" comments posted here and on certain other boards, but she's definitely made a huge step in the right direction, both in her appearance and her skating.
She still needs to improve her speed, among other things (if she comes across that slow on TV, I can only imagine how much slower she must be live!) But for the first time, Mira truly looks like she belongs among the senior ladies, and that's a big step in the right direction. Despite Emily's jump problems, I really like her new LP. I can't think of too many women who could pull off "Carmina Burana," but I think it's a perfect choice for Emily since she's such a powerful skater. I hope she can skate it cleanly sometime this season, and I hope she can combine Harvard and skating as successfully as a certain other skater who once used this music.
This was the first time I've seen Caroline skate other than the 2007 US Nationals gala, and while I agree she's got a lot of potential, her skating is still kind of juniorish to me, and she needs to work not only on completely rotating her jumps, but adding more inbetween the jumps and her awesome spins. Those last two spins, in particular, really made me go "ouch!"
I thought her placement was fair and a great accomplishment for her first senior GP event. I'm looking forward to seeing how she progresses and I hope someday, she can live up to all the hype.I actually liked both Miki's program and her costume, and thought it worked well for her artistically, despite the jump problems.
I also thought Kimmie's program worked really well for her and she's really improved artistically since last season. I agree she deserved her gold here and thought she had the best costume in the final group.
As for the whole downgrading debate, maybe the judges used it a little too harshly at this competition, but I don't have a problem with underrotated jumps getting deducted overall. The judges also deduct heavily for popped jumps under COP, IIRC, and there were also a lot of those in this event. If this motivates skaters to learn proper technique and fully rotate their jumps, I have no problem with it.
And I'm also disappointed NBC chacked the winning pairs and dance LPs, except for those very brief clips at the very end.
I know I can see those programs on certain other sites, but it's still not the same as watching it on my own TV somehow.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I guess what I really think is this. If they re going to put this on television and hope that people will watch (like a football game, for instance), number one, there should not be a short program at all.
I would not have any interest in turning on a football game only to hear the announcer say, well, too bad, sucker, we didn't televise the first half, but now team Takahashi is so far ahead it doesn't really matter what anyone else does. Want to watch the second half anyway? (No.)
As for the ladies, I could have gone either way between Miki and Kimmie (I was not very impressed with either today). But the point I was trying to make is this. It can't be good for the sport when people leave the arena saying, well, I liked that little girl pretty well, I wonder why she didn't win? I guess I'll have to go on the Internet tomorrow when they post the protocols and see if i can figure out how many points she lost for having her triple flip downgraded.
In a football game, to be sure a controversial referee's call may take back a touchdown and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but at least it's right there for the spectators to see (and grouse about). In skating contests, all we can do is accept what the little man behind the curtain tells us -- you won, you lost, my smoke and mirrors says so, pay no attention to the question of who skated the best.
Well, Math, the problem you mentioned is something that can be corrected. They can say, over the anouncement 5 jumps downgraded. (for example).. If the issue isn't the audience understanding.
However, the point I'd like to make is that it's a judged sport. And as a judged sport, there are going to be things that the laymen don't see, which the judges do see. I think most people watching can understand that one.
However, the point I'd like to make is that it's a judged sport. And as a judged sport, there are going to be things that the laymen don't see, which the judges do see. I think most people watching can understand that one.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
IMO, under 6.0 judging, this was perfectly explicit. Figure skating is a judged sport. The person wins whose performance best pleases the judges. If you as a spectator liked someone else better, that's OK, too -- that's why God created wuz-robbin'.
To me, CoP judging just tries to pull the wool over peoples' eyes. To the average person, when they say Caroline Zhang just got 96 and 87/100 points for her free skate, that doesn't mean a thing.
In fact, I have to confess, it doesn't mean much to me, either, and I have invested a lot of time in studying the scoring system and analyzing protocols. I do not feel that I am any the wiser -- and I certainly don't enjoy figure skating any the more -- for having done so.
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