2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[lappo]

The last I heard of Ksenia she was back to training after healing her injury (end of October), there were also some interactions with her fan groups later on in November and December and that was it.
She’s probably just taking her time with gaining her shape back.

Im similarly worried for Maria, she’s been through so much, and erratic behavior of her (ex-)husband must be hard for her to take in. Hopefully he’ll be able to heal fully in that mental institution.

Good to hear about Ksenia, I hope she is back as soon as her health permits. Do we know if she has new programs for this season or is she keeping her previous ones?
As for Maria, her (ex?) husband seems of the manipulative kind from what I gathered on forums, hopefully she is not with him anymore and her family is staying close to her.

 

[Shayuki]

The last I heard of Ksenia she was back to training after healing her injury (end of October), there were also some interactions with her fan groups later on in November and December and that was it.
She’s probably just taking her time with gaining her shape back.

Im similarly worried for Maria, she’s been through so much, and erratic behavior of her (ex-)husband must be hard for her to take in. Hopefully he’ll be able to heal fully in that mental institution.

Before the season started my expectation was that Sinitsyna would miss the entire season and I'll probably stick with it. Although a late season comeback could be possible(for the Russian older age championships for example) if it's absolutely crucial for her funding and such.

 

[flanker]

The fact that she only wins over the other girls in domestic competitions says enough. Now, we can move on and not post about it every second day? It gets very tiring.

Fact?

 

[Magill]

It is not that I think that kind of judging is 100% correct, but it is universal and international. When Satoko has UR jumps, they are called now, but they were not often called internationally when she was No.1 in Japan.
As for overall PCS, the way they are judged in a corridor as it was explained to me, doesn't contribute to real evaluation of abilities. If judges NEED to be explained in advance what scores to award, where is the sense of the whole system?

The corridor scoring is particularly worrisome. Imagine, going to school and here comes the principal to instruct your teachers that any essay written by X should be graded between B+ and A+ while Y's essays deserve to be graded between C+ and B+ regardless of what they are. That's both ridiculous and scandalous and makes the whole judging/scoring procedure a joke.

 

[Scott512]

The fact that she only wins over the other girls in domestic competitions says enough. Now, we can move on and not post about it every second day? It gets very tiring.

You mean like Skate America where she blew away an International field as a 15 year old rookie?

What kind of nonsense is this about only domestic events? They didn't have an International season this year. She couldn't win in an International event because there weren't any.

Also winning one ladies senior Russian nationals let alone 3 in a row is more impressive than winning any International competition Besides Olympics or Worlds or GPF. Russian nationals these days is much better than Europeans these days for instance for the ladies.

 

[Scott512]

Apparently so... from what I gathered on another forum Masha's (ex?) husband is a nut case and posted unpleasant things about her on social media and apparently ended up in a mental facility. That's why I'm a bit concerned for Masha, who already had it very hard in the recent past.

Man Maria has had it crazy since she retired. Sometimes you don't know who you marry. Her dad died unexpectedly at a young age then her paperwork was not filed when she retired and failed some drug test and now she's divorced in a messy situation.

 

[catchie]

Im similarly worried for Maria, she’s been through so much, and erratic behavior of her (ex-)husband must be hard for her to take in. Hopefully he’ll be able to heal fully in that mental institution.

It doesn’t look too good. Now, her ex-husband’s Instagram profile is locked and the profile’s description says “27.12.1998-24.01.2021”. I’m fearing the worst.

https://instagram.com/m_omelchukm?igshid=1l5o06gnicfwf

 

[silveruskate]

It depends on which of the other bullet points you think she should get. I'd give her a ! and deduct the take off point because of the edge, but for her quad I'd give her height and distance, body position, on the music, and landing. That'd bring her to around a +3, which she does get internationally (and sometimes +4 too but I don't remember her having transitions into it here where as she normally does). I also think her other jumps have those bullets - the 4F, 3Lz, 3F, and 2A. However, she's not the only one who'd have a score change. Kamila and Sasha would also have to have their TES recalculated to see how much the different would be.

There's also no standard in the rules for what is considered good height and distance. Some may only consider Kamila's 4T to have that, in which case none of the other ladies' jumps would get that bullet. But apart from Kamila's 4T, the biggest jumps here were Anna and Sasha's 4Lz, and Anna's 4F. Same goes for triples.

The other problem is what is good height for a triple and what is good height for a quad. There may not be enough quad lutzes in the field to compare, but I don't think all jumps should be compared with each other when they're different jumps. In my opinion Anna's quad lutz wouldn't be qualified to have good height or distance.

We see how a Lutz-Loop still gets access to +4/+5 without anywhere close to as much distance (except for Alina's which is too underrated ) as Lutz-Toe, but it's completely understandable.

Edit: More than distance, I think with Anna it's the height I don't think she gets.

Edit: No, actually I think it's both again.

 

[Shayuki]

In my opinion Anna's quad lutz wouldn't be qualified to have good height or distance.

Mm? It was 20/30 frames of ice time almost every time I checked, which is either same or higher than Trusova's, who was either 19 or 20 frames.

Of course we could use men's standards for every lady's jump and give next to no one good height GOE bulletpoints, but my opinion is that it needs to be done within the context of ladies. And the highest quad Lutz should probably have good height.

Otherwise, the only quad that would get "good height" is Kamila Valieva's 4T, as well as Veronika Zhilina's quads starting next season.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

These skaters follow the rules. What is the point of learning "a perfect 3.0 air rotation Triple Lutz from a deep outside edge" if it is not rewarded ?
That's just dumb. Athletes are competing to win, not to please trolls and haters.
And i am fairly certain she would be jumping a perfect rotation whatever if the rules originally gave her the most points for it. Why ? Cause Anna is an exceptional athlete and she is training at the best skating club in the world.
So it happens that doing additional .25 air rotations is out of reach for the vast majority of the ladies field. Hence i think the reward is accurate and completely justified. Not to mention that most skaters jump 2.5 air rotation triples, nobody bothers with 3.0 anyway.

Perfect technique is rewarded though. Yuzuru Hanyu has textbook technique and his jumps have minimal pre-rotation. He is:
- Two time Olympic champion
- Two time World champion
- Three time World silver medalist
- One time World bronze medalist
- Four time GPF champion
- Two time GPF silver medalist
- One time Four continents champion
- Three time Four continents silver medalist
- Eight time GP event champion
- Seven time GP even silver medalist
- Seven time B event champion
- One time B event silver medalist

Yuna Kim also has textbook technique and jumps who have minimal pre-rotation. She is:
- One time Olympic champion
- One time Olympic silver medalist
- Two time World champion
- Two time World silver medalist
- Two time World bronze medalist
- Three time GPF champion
- One time GPF silver medalist
- One time Four continents champion
- Seven time GP event champion
- One time GP event bronze medalist
- Two time B event champion

Carolina Kostner who has textbook technique is also winner of multiple medals.

So as you can see textbook technique is clearly rewarded. What is your point?
If Anna was capable of jumping with textbook technique she would jump with textbook technique. She is obviously not capable of that for whatever reason - not good enough coaches, her own inability or both. So she is using easier, more "efficient" technique to jump "triples" and "quads".

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I find it interesting that you forgive under-rotations while not pre-rotations. Isn't your argument directly related to number of revolutions in the air? Would that also not mean that Veronika also does not have a "real" 4Lz? Personally, I think you're looking for things to criticize Anna for and bring it up regardless of the prior topic of conversation - which is neither helpful nor constructive.

I do not forgive anything. That is why I mentioned so many times that Veronika jumped 4Lz which was underrotated. I do not pretend that there is no problem like some of the users here who insist that Anna does have outside edge lutz which she obviously does not have.
Also Veronika 4Lz had 3.50 in the air, perfect take off and minimal pre-rotation. No other lady jumping 4Lz has ever achieved that.

 

[silveruskate]

Mm? It was 20/30 frames of ice time almost every time I checked, which is either same or higher than Trusova's, who was either 19 or 20 frames.

Of course we could use men's standards for every lady's jump and give next to no one good height GOE bulletpoints, but my opinion is that it needs to be done within the context of ladies. And the highest quad Lutz should probably have good height.

Otherwise, the only quad that would get "good height" is Kamila Valieva's 4T, as well as Veronika Zhilina's quads starting next season.

On quads I think Sasha's 4T and 4S are great jumps when landed. It's all subjective since you have Kolyada who sometimes jumps high but not necessarily as long, but it's still something others are unable to do and widely seen as impressive.

We already saw Sasha slightly overscored on quads when she started landing because a quad is a quad and we should take the scraps we can get. The problem with that method in my opinion is then every quad qualifies for good height and distance.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

On quads I think Sasha's 4T and 4S are great jumps when landed. It's all subjective since you have Kolyada who sometimes jumps high but not necessarily as long, but it's still something others are unable to do and widely seen as impressive.

We already saw Sasha slightly overscored on quads when she started landing because a quad is a quad and we should take the scraps we can get. The problem with that method in my opinion is then every quad qualifies for good height and distance.

Agree. Kamila's 4T is quite impressive.
But all the quad lutzes and quad flips are subpar.

 

[Skatefan15]

Interesting enough, amidst the conversation (or maybe argument lol) from yesterday, I got this video in my YouTube recommended. I would watch it, if you can, it’s very interesting (slows some things down)! Also, not sharing this to degrade anyone, just thought it was relevant to the topic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBgdPtsPTMc

 

[Dawn825]

I'm just wondering, are there any examples of skaters who jumped for years on the wrong edge or with full blade assists and were then able to fix it? Obviously the above skaters aren't trying to fix theirs because they aren't losing any points and their coaches don't care, but would it even be possible to correct after doing it that way for so long if they tried?

 

[Vilord]

I also like this suggestion. However, I think it is difficult to get that many judges to participate in smaller competitions and would be a financial burden for small competitions also. However, it should at least be implemented at GP events, and major international competitions.

I think this would mainly be for Championchips and GPs. For the challenger series it will probably be difficult to achive and probably also in most national competitions apart from maybe national championchips.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I'm just wondering, are there any examples of skaters who jumped for years on the wrong edge or with full blade assists and were then able to fix it? Obviously the above skaters aren't trying to fix theirs because they aren't losing any points and their coaches don't care, but would it even be possible to correct after doing it that way for so long if they tried?

I do not think so.
Plus with Anna I remember clearly that it was posted here how she had problem learning her triples and since TT had better students than her they simply did not have time to help her. So she learned them elsewhere and then returned to TT.

 

[Shayuki]

Interesting enough, amidst the conversation (or maybe argument lol) from yesterday, I got this video in my YouTube recommended. I would watch it, if you can, it’s very interesting (slows some things down)! Also, not sharing this to degrade anyone, just thought it was relevant to the topic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBgdPtsPTMc

Yeah, very interesting. If one can't press the 0.25x button on Youtube themselves, it might be of some value.

 

[Shayuki]

I'm just wondering, are there any examples of skaters who jumped for years on the wrong edge or with full blade assists and were then able to fix it? Obviously the above skaters aren't trying to fix theirs because they aren't losing any points and their coaches don't care, but would it even be possible to correct after doing it that way for so long if they tried?

Full blade assist has been fixed numerous times. Didn't even Medvedeva do that?

Wrong edge is almost unheard of. I've seen young children fix it completely, but by the time they're like, 10 or something, even that becomes exceedingly rare. I guess some optimistic people would say Mao Asada.

 

[Mathman]

I'm just wondering, are there any examples of skaters who jumped for years on the wrong edge or with full blade assists and were then able to fix it? Obviously the above skaters aren't trying to fix theirs because they aren't losing any points and their coaches don't care, but would it even be possible to correct after doing it that way for so long if they tried?

It seems to be virtually impossible to fix jump habits, although many skaters have changed coaches in an attempt to do just that. Mao Asada, even after winning two world championships and a silver medal at the Olympics, worked and worked and worked on her Lutz for years without any measurable improvement.

(Still one of the all-time greats, though.)