2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 796 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Status
Not open for further replies.
It was a bad program. It's not anyone else's problem if some can view any criticism only through one lens
Except Shae-Lynn is also helping to choreo this new FS along with Sergei R, but Sergei R is the only one getting flack. Didn't he choreo Aliona's exhibition skate? The one that a number of people thought should be her FS? So why Sergei R is only capable of butchering choreo now is a mystery to me. 🙄
 
If we're talking about Alyona's new FS I would like it to be something jazzy and upbeat or dramatic. I think Shae-Lynn is best at the fun stuff (Wakaba's SPs, Kaori's No Roots, Marin's Seven Nation Army and Elena's Porgy and Bess come to mind), or the dramatic (Wakaba's James Bond). If Alyona wants to do lyrical (which, given her obsession with Billie Eilish and Twilight I kind of doubt), I feel like maybe Averbukh or Buttle would a better choice.
 
It looks like many people are "assisting" Shae-Lynn, and I don't even understand why a world-class choreographer would need any assistance to being with.
Well considering the dumpster fire (I actually had no issue with it, but the criticism was loud and continuous) that was Aliona's original FS, maybe assistance is needed.

Of course now everyone's changed their opinion and Shae-Lynn's choreo is not to be touched and if it looks bad it was obviously the fault of crappy skaters and their crappy coaches. Or maybe just particular skaters and coaches. I bet you a million dollars if this were Anna or Kamila and their team this discussion wouldn't be happening this way. If anything Shae-Lynn would be blacklisted forever for daring to make those skaters and that team look anything less than perfect.
 
Last edited:
By the way Stockholm organizing committee says worlds happening. What I said it was not in a light mood. I don't see a particular involvement of Lakernik to a program if this is not going to be somewhere worthy. Poor Tuktamysheva probably will be out-taken in votes again.
I saw! And I did flash back to your post when I saw Tatjana Flade's tweet! :laugh:

And yes, Tuktamysheva's probably out if Kostornaia's getting a Lakernik-approved program.
 
Everyone has some degree of "subjectivity" in their opinion, but it should be based on as much objective knowledge and consideration as possible. It is not "dated" to want important aspects about skating to be properly assessed in the scores. It's educated.

The way some people talk, they seem to think everything about skating can be known from looking at a protocol sheet, or that the recent trends in skating are inherently what must be best. People hold up the scoring system as if its the bible, when it's nothing more than a very fallible constructed mechanism for trying to introduce more concrete evaluation into the judging of figure skating, following the 2002 scandal. As with all instances of trying to take superficial things on paper as inherently correct and unmovable, it leads to a whole lot of red-tape and other sorts of bad decisions or bad practices taking place.

Another similarity I see in a lot of viewpoints is like comparing typical new-age digital cinematography to film. Most modern viewers just accept the kind of visuals that are now more commonly seen in TV/Movies, when digital frequently removes a lot of possible beauty and nuance from the kind of images that can be created. Or comparing computer animation to hand-drawn. Or comparing the depth of discussion generally found on twitter, to what can be found in an in-person or forum conversation.
It's figure skating we are talking about and it is a subjective sport. Being "educated" doesn't mean necessesarily to be objective. Being educated just means that you have been around a lot and have lots of history to compare with. And it doesn't mean that it used to be "so much better before".

I consider myself educated. I know I am not an expert, but I know this much...the current judging system is way better than the old one. And that is because I am educated and know how the old system worked. I am not holding up the current scoring system as a bible, it sure has it flaws, but it is a sport we are dealing with here, and the current judging system is what we have...so let's accept the system - or question it. That is what we can do.

I find it a bit hilarious to question scores here and there, and techniques and whatnot, and directing it to certain skaters - and also comparing it to old time skaters. It just can't be done. I was re-watching Medvedeva's World wins the other day, and wow how things have changed just in a couple of years. Those programs just doesn't cut it anymore. They were lovely, yes, but they are not comparable. Which also means that we can't compare scores, techniques, skating skills and whatever, because they were judged back then with what was the norm in those days.
If we have certain opinions about the scoring and judging- turn them to the ISU. It's a a numbers game now, and if athletes know a way, whatever technique they have, to get the numbers, of course they will go for it.
Unfortunately though, figure skating fans tend to turn on the skaters, or the judges, or have conspiracy theories about the judging. Not helping. The skaters, as always, are innocent in all this and is doing their job trying to get those darn points. And as it is a subjective sport, there will always be discussions. But fans tend to turn against skaters instead of the ISU if they are not pleased.

Sometimes I wonder if figure skating fans realise that this is a numbers game like in every other sport. It didn't used to be (like in the scandal 2002 year), but even back then, the numbers were there, the difference was that we never saw them. I'm pretty sure no one wants that sneaky era back.
 
So what's this talk about virtual competitions, anyway? Skaters skating in their local rinks and begin judged by a panel elsewhere? Seems pretty complex but might be the only possibility for proper competitions with international travel restrictions and quarantines.
Well now, this just is completely incorrect. I think if you're going to criticize a skater, using facts would be a good starting point.

If I state that Trusova didn't won Russian nationals it's not criticism to Trusova. You can go count the frames and do the calculations. Both lutz and flip from Kawabata are around 55-60cm height. Shcherbakovas quad flip and Lutz are not there. Trusova in some of her jumps reaches 60+ cm. Maybe Valieva too, didn't check her.

For example Tsurskay's underotated triple Lutz was around 60cm. My point here is that just because this skaters can rotate fast (due to their body type, which apparently in Russia changes only when you retire) doesn't mean that they are doing something athletically better than skaters like Tsurskaya, Tyktamesheva etc.
 
Well considering the dumpster fire (I actually had no issue with it, but the criticism was loud and continuous) that was Aliona's original FS, maybe assistance is needed.

Of course now everyone's changed their opinion and Shae-Lynn's choreo is not to be touched and if it looks bad it was obviously the fault of crappy skaters and their crappy coaches. Or maybe just particular skaters and coaches. I bet you a million dollars if this were Anna or Kamila and their team this discussion wouldn't be happening this way. If anything Shae-Lynn would be blacklisted forever for daring to make those skaters and that team look anything less than perfect.

TBH I love Kostornaia, and I love Shae-Lynn but the program wasn't either of their best works. Probably as it was a new program, and the choreography was done online though.
I would have liked to see her work with Emanual Sandhu when he was their in person - he was Plushenko's only real competition after Yagudin (of course when he wasn't having a splatfest).
 
TBH I love Kostornaia, and I love Shae-Lynn but the program wasn't either of their best works. Probably as it was a new program, and the choreography was done online though.
I would have liked to see her work with Emanual Sandhu when he was their in person - he was Plushenko's only real competition after Yagudin (of course when he wasn't having a splatfest).
I usually love Shae-Lynn's choreo, but this hasn't been a great year for her. I feel like almost all her programs with the possible exception of her programs for Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu have been misses. It is likely due to not working with skaters in person and, perhaps, the stress of pandemic which is taking a toll on all of us.

The LP for Aliona wasn't bad, but Aliona wasn't in a position to lend it her special charisma. I have rarely been a fan of Aliona's programs but I have always been a fan of the way that she has performed them. If she is back in form, I am sure she will make any program magical.
 
Except Shae-Lynn is also helping to choreo this new FS along with Sergei R, but Sergei R is the only one getting flack. Didn't he choreo Aliona's exhibition skate? The one that a number of people thought should be her FS? So why Sergei R is only capable of butchering choreo now is a mystery to me. 🙄
When Rosanov was with Eteri his programs was usually my favorites from that camp so its not that I dont like him as a choreographer. I just question the point of paying a verry expensive choreographer from halfway across the world if you are going to redo it yourself anywhay. Then just have Rosanov do the choreo from the start.

(The chance of using a high profile choreographer for the branding is the only reason I can think of)
 
I just question the point of paying a verry expensive choreographer from halfway across the world if you are going to redo it yourself anywhay.
Who says they're going to redo the whole thing? For all we know Sergei R will participate in the Zoom with Aliona and Shae-Lynn to come up with the best FS possible.
(The chance of using a high profile choreographer for the branding is the only reason I can think of)
Oh right I forgot that everything that happens at that school is just branding and PR. The owner is a total fraud and probably steals money out of skaters pockets just because he can. 🙄

It's not like Aliona mentioned always wanting to work with Shae-Lynn or anything.
 
Who says they're going to redo the whole thing? For all we know Sergei R will participate in the Zoom with Aliona and Shae-Lynn to come up with the best FS possible.

Oh right I forgot that everything that happens at that school is just branding and PR. The owner is a total fraud and probably steals money out of skaters pockets just because he can. 🙄

It's not like Aliona mentioned always wanting to work with Shae-Lynn or anything.
You really need a break from the forum, IMO.
 
Yulia.
Yulia Lipnitskaya is such an Olympic champion, remembered fondly and well loved, although her career was short and dramatic. Still, everyone who knows anything about FS is thrilled with even a memory of the litttle girl in the red coat....
Yulia is the exception. I am sure that different people have their own stories about her. Mine is like that. I myself was a figure skater in the mid 70s. Up until Torino I followed figure skating to the extent it was shown on the Soviet/Russian TV. Back then the ladies discipline was the least interesting to me. Even dance where stars like Torville/Dean, Bestemyanova/Bukin and others moved the frontier was much more exciting. After Torino I lost the interest completely. But when I saw Yulia in Sochi she completely blew up my mind. That was the strongest emotional impact that a performance had on me. I rewatched her "girl in a red coat" about 100 times. She is the reason why I am here and why I did not miss Russian nationals since 2014 up until this year.
 
Oh right I forgot that everything that happens at that school is just branding and PR. The owner is a total fraud and probably steals money out of skaters pockets just because he can. 🙄

It's not like Aliona mentioned always wanting to work with Shae-Lynn or anything.
This is not at all what I meant. If anything I think Plushenko spend a lot of money on all of his students (high profile anywhay) to keep them happy. Which is a good thing.

I just think that if Aliona really wanted to work with Shae-Lynn it would be money better spent in a season when they could actually meet up in person and work that way.
 
If I state that Trusova didn't won Russian nationals it's not criticism to Trusova. You can go count the frames and do the calculations. Both lutz and flip from Kawabata are around 55-60cm height. Shcherbakovas quad flip and Lutz are not there. Trusova in some of her jumps reaches 60+ cm. Maybe Valieva too, didn't check her.

For example Tsurskay's underotated triple Lutz was around 60cm. My point here is that just because this skaters can rotate fast (due to their body type, which apparently in Russia changes only when you retire) doesn't mean that they are doing something athletically better than skaters like Tsurskaya, Tyktamesheva etc.
To be frank I believe if skater jumps her triples 60+ it is a sign there is something wrong either with technique or condition or even with both.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top