2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

I think it's incredibly unlikely anything will jeopardize their positions, they'd have to suddenly lose all their jumps!

But see that's a problem if Sasha skated the same as she did then and suddenly gets 10 or more points (allowing her to challenge a clean Kamila) then that proves the scoring system is completely bogus. Sasha's lovely skates at Nats should be worth what they were worth. How can they score higher without noticible improvement or more difficult content? To me that's like if in a running race or swimming event they suddenly decided a minute wasn't 60 seconds this time it's now 70 seconds. You can't just change things like that)

I still don't understand when consistency became an acceptable way to get higher scores? I clearly recall a time where people said consistency was pretty much a cheat and just because a skater always landed this or that jump didn't mean they were any good at said jump or had good skating skills at all.

The consistancy factor became important in the 2019 season when they changed the rules quite drastically. BVs for quads got lower, +5/-5 was introduced meaning that if you fall you get punished A LOT. Back in the Zagitova Olympic season 2018 it wasn't like this at all. Back then, the men with their quads could put in a lot of quads that they knew they would never land but they got the points anyway - and they might beat a clean skater.

You forget that Sasha at RusNats had her best score ever. It was fantastic. She was a bit overscored, and yes, so were the others, but she would still have been third when the others are clean. And yes, Anna had more difficult content, Kamila had not, but they both surpass Sasha in the artistic department and in spins.

It's no use in seeing Sasha as the victim here, she has chosen her path and she has to deal with that. So, another clean skate at RC Final would mean that she will probably score higher, not because of the judges, but because she is getting more confident in what she is doing.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I hear your point about consistency

Well to be honest I actually rate consistency rather highly but I remember that when Sofia Samodurova was having her stellar season and won Euros most people now on the consistency bandwagon were not pleased. She had tiny jumps and even if they were fully rotated she was overscored for them anyway and her programs were empty choreo-wise and all that jazz. Why should Sofia get the benefit of the doubt they said.

You forget that Sasha at RusNats had her best score ever. It was fantastic.

Fantastic until we saw Anna and Kamila's scores then it was just so-so. It was like the time T/M had their best score ever at 2019 World after two wonderful programs only for Sui/Han to come out and smash it to smithereens. It was like "Pysche, you thought you had a chance. You should have done something REALLY special."

they both surpass Sasha in the artistic department

That's my problem in a nutshell, I don't agree, Kamila and Anna don't stand out to me like Sasha does, I don't get excited when they skate and I don't see that their artistry is waaay better than Sasha's. Just like with Sui/Han everyone just loves them and their programs, especially the judges, but I like T/M way more. This is obviously my problem and clearly I pick the wrong skaters to back. But alas I cannot get on the Anna/Kamila/Sui-Han train, I have tried but I can't.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Could you please point out some present female skater you consider having average skating skills, so I may fully understand your standpoint?

In the Russian crowd maybe someone like Medvedeva or Zagitova or from the juniors Petrosyan or Zhilina. Actually to be fair I don't think it's that much weaker than average, because both of them have been improving (especially Sasha). So maybe just average now. But like back in the day (when they were 12) their skating skills were really quite weak (especially noticeable when you compared them to their main competitiors - the snow leopards).

 

[icybear]

Maybe your explanation as to why they are keeping this program for Kamola is why they are keeping this program for her. I would imagine she would be able to do this free skate even better next season than this season. Next season this girl will be 15 and she will know she belongs with Ana and sasha and the very top of ladies figure skating.

I cannot see the program choreography being performed better than Rus Nats. If they change the choreo a bit, maybe. But I just think a special skater like Kamila can do better than that choreo. She has such beautiful arm movements capable of creating gorgeous poses. If she wins the Olympics, I want it to be a good program that wins it.

 

[Shayuki]

In the Russian crowd maybe someone like Medvedeva or Zagitova or from the juniors Petrosyan or Zhilina.

This makes no sense.

Petrosyan has far better skating skills than Zhilina, how can you group them together like this?

And Zagitova or Medvedeva barely have better skating skills than Trusova, if at all.

 

[chasingneverland]

To be fair, the three girls who were expected to make the podium (Akatieva, Samodelkina, Zhilina) all didn't have a great competition. Obviously they all were amazing and the quads which were done were done very well, but Akatieva wasn't performing as much as she could in either segment, Samodelkina tripped a bit in her step sequence (such a shame because I love that step sequence), and Zhilina just wasn't having a great competition. At their best, I honestly think they can challenge the trio. And keep in mind that they are younger, especially Akatieva and Zhilina who aren't even internationally junior eligible. To be completely fair, Sasha/Anna/Aliona weren't that exciting as 12 year olds (they were really great, but not as exciting as the potential of these three quad-wise or full-package wise).

And actually, Sasha and Anna's SS are noticeably weaker than the average. Sasha's spins are very average. Anna's combo jumps are a bit muscled. Alyona has a weak I-spin and a leg wrap. Samodelkina, Akatieva and Zhilina on a good day are above average in SS, have pretty good flow in their combo jumps, and have good flexibility. Obviously they have other faults but in certain areas they are honestly more "full-package" or have more full-package potential than the 3A at this age.

Also to be completely fair, Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were 2nd year juniors. As first year juniors Anna wasn't even there due to a broken bone and they weren't nearly as dominant as first year juniors. For goodness sakes, the winner isn't even junior eligible yet. It's as if Aliona won the year before her junior debut. These girls are actually BETTER than Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were at that age. A better comparison is Anna, Sasha, and Aliona vs Kamila, Daria, and Maiia.

 

[Jontor]

That's my problem in a nutshell, I don't agree, Kamila and Anna don't stand out to me like Sasha does, I don't get excited when they skate and I don't see that their artistry is waaay better than Sasha's. Just like with Sui/Han everyone just loves them and their programs, especially the judges, but I like T/M way more. This is obviously my problem and clearly I pick the wrong skaters to back. But alas I cannot get on the Anna/Kamila/Sui-Han train, I have tried but I can't.

I think your problem in a nutshell is that you have your own specific taste - just like all of us. It's not about backing the wrong skaters, it's about learning what weaknesses your skaters have compared to others, and also see the strength in other skaters allthough you might not like them.
Then you can appreciate and fully compare them.

There will always be skaters that you will never understand why they got so big, but apparently others love them (including the judges!).

Figure skating is a very special sport. It triggers emotions, and emotions are mostly illogical. Add to that a logical system with numbers that judge these emotions. It's bound to be different opinions.

That's why we see so different styles from American skaters, Russian skaters and Japanese skaters. It is like three different worlds imo.

 

[Blades of Passion]

'Yet another simplistic and incorrect take.'

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

It's not my opinion. Vladimir is factually wrong to say "people only dislike Kamila's program because it's avante-garde and not soft enough for their tastes."

It creates emotion/mood of monotony, which is exactly what Bolero is. And it creates a felling/mood of a snake crawling being monotone as snake's crawling is. And that, throughout the whole programme (comparing to Caro's Bolero and majority of old programmes as it is The Red Violine programme you mentioned, which comes alive only during the step sequence and choreo sequence).

That is not what Bolero is, LOL.

If you think Giada Russo's Red Violin program only comes alive in the step sequence, there's no way you've watched it. Or it's just outside of your comprehension, somehow. And trying to say Kostner's original Bolero only came alive in the step sequence. Sigh. Just can't waste any more time with that.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, the bets are off for next season so anything can happen. Not even Anna and Kamila are safe.

I love Sasha too, and I want her to be at the Olympics. And I don't think that the judges have dismissed her or anything, it's just that she is a powerful tech skater, that's the image she has, but she needs to prove that to the judges with CLEAN skates. (I'm pretty sure that if she can repeat her wonderful skate from RusNats at RC Final, the judges will believe in her).

I don't think Sasha's biggest competition is only Kostornaia, I would also look out for Usacheva (and even Khromykh) for that last Olympic spot. It will be tough for sure, we know that.

But, anything can happen in a year, I just hope that no one gets injured and can't go because of that. I hope for a fair GP season and a decisive RusNats next year that will pick the three most deserving.

Anna and KV are safe if healthy. We also have to remember who they are coached by.

The only thing that could change for either of them are injuries or if one of them bombs next season which is like a 1 in a million chance of happening.

 

[Scott512]

Also to be completely fair, Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were 2nd year juniors. As first year juniors Anna wasn't even there due to a broken bone and they weren't nearly as dominant as first year juniors. For goodness sakes, the winer isn't even junior eligible yet. It's as if Aliona won the year before her junior debut. These girls are actually BETTER than Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were at that age. A better comparison is Anna, Sasha, and Aliona vs Kamila, Daria, and Maiia.

True.

 

[colormyworld240]

Also to be completely fair, Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were 2nd year juniors. As first year juniors Anna wasn't even there due to a broken bone and they weren't nearly as dominant as first year juniors. For goodness sakes, the winer isn't even junior eligible yet. It's as if Aliona won the year before her junior debut. These girls are actually BETTER than Anna, Sasha, and Aliona were at that age. A better comparison is Anna, Sasha, and Aliona vs Kamila, Daria, and Maiia.

They are indeed much better if we compare them in the same timeframe. This is their junior nationals before their international debuts. I'm not 100% sure on these numbers because they're from memory, but junior nationals before international's JGP went something like this:

Sasha: 4th place, no quads or 3A, clean skate
Alena: 16th place, no quads or 3A, many mistakes
Anna: 13th place, no quads or 3A, many mistakes (also 1 year later as she missed her first junior season)

So yeah, landing any quad/3A and getting a medal at junior nationals before even skating internationally is something that has never been accomplished by Sasha/Alena/Anna.

It is important to note that the "main juniors" Kamila, Daria, Ksenia, and Maiia did not skate here as the other top juniors did previously, so the girls might not have medalled, but they did land quads and 3As, and were much more consistent with their triples. The statement that they do not measure up to Sasha/Alena/Anna is a complete lie.

 

[RatedPG]

OMG I just caught up with figure skating because I was busy at work and it is like someone upstairs granted my wishes. My favourite three ladies juniors all made it to the podium. I thought only Akatieva would make it and was just praying for Adeliya and Sofia to just finish in the top six. Adeliya, my fav, was fantastic. She skated that free skate so well. What a way to end the competition.

So happy with the results including Frolova at 6th, where she can now compete in the Junior GP Circuit next year. The field is so competitive. But, not too crazy with the technical difficulty, where athletes with no 3A or quads, can still make it to the team. I like that.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

This makes no sense.

Petrosyan has far better skating skills than Zhilina, how can you group them together like this?

And Zagitova or Medvedeva barely have better skating skills than Trusova, if at all.

I think Zagitova and Trusova may have similar skating skills (I did say that Anna and Sasha are average now didn't I?). But to be honest, I think Alina in 17/18 was stronger than Trusova in 19/20. She had better speed and didn't really hop her turns like Trusova sometimes did. I think Zhenya is just a bit stronger since she has better one-foot skating and uses less crossovers overall in her programs.

Yeah sorry that was a mistake on my part about Petrosyan and Zhilina. I must have remembered some other skater because I looked back at Zhilina's SP and while she has good speed she lacks control.

Just out of curiosity since I know you are a seasoned fan and I really respect how much knowledge you have about the sport: what would you say is the best determining factor in assessing quality of skating skills? Is it edge depth? Crossovers? Quality of one-foot skating? And how do the top Russian ladies score in SS in a more fair world?

 

[brakes]

In the Russian crowd maybe someone like Medvedeva or Zagitova or from the juniors Petrosyan or Zhilina. Actually to be fair I don't think it's that much weaker than average, because both of them have been improving (especially Sasha). So maybe just average now. But like back in the day (when they were 12) their skating skills were really quite weak (especially noticeable when you compared them to their main competitiors - the snow leopards).

I see Anna's progressing fast.
So which present female senior Russian skater's skating skills are above average in your opinion?

 

[Jontor]

It's not my opinion. Vladimir is factually wrong to say "people only dislike Kamila's program because it's avante-garde and not soft enough for their tastes."



That is not what Bolero is, LOL.

If you think Giada Russo's Red Violin program only comes alive in the step sequence, there's no way you've watched it. Or it's just outside of your comprehension, somehow. And trying to say Kostner's original Bolero only came alive in the step sequence. Sigh. Just can't waste any more time with that.

Again. "IMHO" is missing.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I see Anna's progressing fast.
So which present female senior Russian skater's skating skills are above average in your opinion?

Obviously Alyona.
But besides Alyona I would say Kseniia Sinitsyna is up there as well.
I think Nugumanova has good flow and edge control but I do wish she had a bit more speed and use of acceleration/decleration.
Oh yes and Gubanova has good skating skills as well.
Back in the day I think Maria Sotskova was a bit underrated for her SS, she had really deep edges and very good use of the upper body. She just lacked a bit of speed.

But honestly I don't want to say that this is the ultimate opinion. Again, I'm just learning about the different turns and I'm no seasoned fan. Sorry if I make things sound super concrete. The fact that Anna and Sasha don't have good SS though is one I'm sure about because I have seen people who do understand what they're talking about discuss it. But I do want to learn more about skating skills because I do think it's one of the most important parts of figure skating and the basis of artistry.

 

[Amei]

The consistancy factor became important in the 2019 season when they changed the rules quite drastically. BVs for quads got lower, +5/-5 was introduced meaning that if you fall you get punished A LOT. Back in the Zagitova Olympic season 2018 it wasn't like this at all. Back then, the men with their quads could put in a lot of quads that they knew they would never land but they got the points anyway - and they might beat a clean skater.

Consistency is what Trusova needs to prove she can be; her most impressive thing is her jumps, but in 2 seasons as a senior she's been a wild card on whether she lands or falls/pops them.

 

[Jontor]

Consistency is what Trusova needs to prove she can be; her most impressive thing is her jumps, but in 2 seasons as a senior she's been a wild card on whether she lands or falls/pops them.

I think so too. Consistency is important. Last time Sasha had a clean skate was at Junior Worlds two seasons ago (I think ). And that's crazy when you think about it.

 

[anonymoose_au]

It's not about backing the wrong skaters, it's about learning what weaknesses your skaters have compared to others, and also see the strength in other skaters allthough you might not like them.

Right I know Sasha and T/M's weaknesses, but what are Anna's, Kamila's and Sui/Han's? As far as I can tell they have none or if they do they're easily overcome not like Sasha's poor spins, skating skills and lack of artistry or T/Ms lack of emotions and terrible program choices.

I just find it so frustrating that when my faves try their best to address their weaknesses it doesn't make a lot of difference or sometimes they do even worse. Never forget Candyman

 

[brakes]

Obviously Alyona.

You consider this skater's skating skills:




better than this skater's skating skills?





You claim the skater in the first video is faster, more fluent, precise, using more edges, one-foot and multi-directional skating, with more variety, difficulty and intricacy in her footwork, more effortless and expressing the music better?

Is this what you see in above videos?