2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

Yes they're both around 200 but Ksenia does have proof that internationally she can score over 210 with a junior program. Her 176 was from two years ago.

I got Daria's average as 200 and Ksenia's as 203.9? (Only counting 18/19 seasons scores)

Ksenia Sinitsyna:
JGP RUS - 204.25
JGP ITA - 215.58
JGPF - 195.57
Youth Olympics - 200.03

Daria Usacheva:
JGP LAT - 194.40
JGP CRO - 197.19
JGPF - 200.37
Junior World's - 207.74

Anyway, my point was in opposition to the statement that Sinitsyna hasn't even shown Usacheva level skating.

Her 176 is from 2019-2020. The same year as her 215.58, in fact a month later.

Ksenia:

JGP Russia: 204.25
JGP Italy - 215.58
Volo Open Cup - 176.57
JGP Final - 195.57
Winter Youth Olympics - 200.03

Daria:

JGP Latvia: 194.40
JGP Croatia: 197.19
Denis Ten Challenge: 211.25
JGP Final: 200.37
World Juniors: 207.74

But regardless, the fact remains that they're both at roughly the same level. But regardless you said that Ksenia has a higher international average than Daria. That's pretty misleading as they're essentially the same. That's what I was pointing out.

 

[chasingneverland]

I'm still kind of mad about JGPF. I think Kseniia absolutely should have been bronze and I don't understand how she wasn't (and I think everyone here knows that Daria is one of my favorites).

The fact that she wasn't should tell you why she's not really a threat to go to Worlds, at least as things stand.

 

[Lzbee]

Her 176 is from 2019-2020. The same year as her 215.58, in fact a month later.

Ksenia:

JGP Russia: 204.25
JGP Italy - 215.58
Volo Open Cup - 176.57
JGP Final - 195.57
Winter Youth Olympics - 200.03

Daria:

JGP Latvia: 194.40
JGP Croatia: 197.19
Denis Ten Challenge: 211.25
JGP Final: 200.37
World Juniors: 207.74

But regardless, the fact remains that they're both at roughly the same level. But regardless you said that Ksenia has a higher international average than Daria. That's pretty misleading as they're essentially the same. That's what I was pointing out.

Oh! Apologies I didn't know there was Volvo Open Cup and Denis Ten Challenge too since Skating scores website doesn't keep track of those competitions.

 

[Amei]

Anyone know why Anya seemed to be in such a downcast mood after the competition yesterday...?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLAbRhuJqdQ/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLB_NHGKmTh/

I don't think it had to do with her performance; she seemed reasonably happy with how she had skated. So I'm curious what else might have been on her mind.

3 things:

1. Shcherbakova wasn't happy with her FS performance, the team aspect was clearly fun for the skaters but a bad performance possibly hurting someone else's chances at winning might have been the source
2. I don't think she's a 100% heallthy, pneumonia takes time to heal from plus she has to recover her stamina, she did no program run throughs prior to nationals and at this event she had 3 days of performing to do.
3. The clips you posted were fancam moments, similar to Valieva not smiling at Nationals till she noticed the camera on her, they are human not everyone is happy/perky or necessarily in the mood all the time.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

The fact that she wasn't should tell you why she's not really a threat to go to Worlds, at least as things stand.

No?
She wasn't on the podium because she was underscored. She got a 69 in the SP and it had literally zero flaws. Her PCS were way too low. Her step sequence was incorrectly called level 3 for the SP. Her GOEs were way too low (how did she get less GOE than Kami on the combo?). Her PCS were literally all lower than Kamila (except for IN) which is just blatantly incorrect considering only the SP.
In the free skate she literally had the same SS score as Alysa Liu! And Alysa Liu with a lot of mistakes too! Kseniia made one big mistake which was an UR, but Daria literally made two big step-outs. Kseniia got mostly 1s on a step sequence filled with intricacy, attention to music, ice coverage, speed and clean turns.

Kseniia definitely deserved to be bronze there. Her not being bronze doesn't mean she is somehow not a threat. I don't even know what you mean by that. If anything I'd even argue she should've been silver (or even... and this might be extremely controversial... gold). Her programs and her performance has a level of maturity no one else at the final (except for Haein when clean and I'd say Daria if she went clean) can match.

 

[Dawn825]

I don't mind Daniil because I think he's a stabilizing presence for Anna and he was with Kamila too. He's gone to sooo many of their junior competitions (for all of them) and they're comfortable with him. Even with Eteri there it's Danil that Anna goes to right before she skates. I don't love his antics but he's not the only one putting on a show. (Plushy anyone?)

Regardless, I would prefer for them to be comfortable and confident (same with Sasha with Plushy). I can roll my eyes for two seconds - it doesn't really inconvenience me lol. (Besides I think regardless he and Plushy and all coaches DO care about their skaters.)

I hear you. I don't know how stabilizing it would be to see my coach throw up their hands and turn away in disgust everytime I made a mistake, but maybe they don't watch that part of the replays. I don't see Plushenko doing that, though I don't like how he looks disgusted everytime Sasha gets her scores. I get that he doesn't agree with them, but it's gonna get in Sasha's head if he keeps telling her that the judges have it out for her, whether it's true or not.

 

[chasingneverland]

I hear you. I don't know how stabilizing it would be to see my coach throw up their hands and turn away in disgust everytime I made a mistake, but maybe they don't watch that part of the replays. I don't see Plushenko doing that, though I don't like how he looks disgusted everytime Sasha gets her scores. I get that he doesn't agree with them, but it's gonna get in Sasha's head if he keeps telling her that the judges have it out for her, whether it's true or not.

Or maybe they do and are disappointed too?

It's also in theory working so I won't question it really haha.

And yeah, I am worried about Plushy and Sasha too but she seems happy so once again it's working so I won't question it.

 

[chasingneverland]

No?
She wasn't on the podium because she was underscored. She got a 69 in the SP and it had literally zero flaws. Her PCS were way too low. Her step sequence was incorrectly called level 3 for the SP. Her GOEs were way too low (how did she get less GOE than Kami on the combo?). Her PCS were literally all lower than Kamila (except for IN) which is just blatantly incorrect considering only the SP.
In the free skate she literally had the same SS score as Alysa Liu! And Alysa Liu with a lot of mistakes too! Kseniia made one big mistake which was an UR, but Daria literally made two big step-outs. Kseniia got mostly 1s on a step sequence filled with intricacy, attention to music, ice coverage, speed and clean turns.

Kseniia definitely deserved to be bronze there. Her not being bronze doesn't mean she is somehow not a threat. I don't even know what you mean by that. If anything I'd even argue she should've been silver (or even... and this might be extremely controversial... gold). Her programs and her performance has a level of maturity no one else at the final (except for Haein when clean and I'd say Daria if she went clean) can match.

That's what I mean though. She's NOT getting the PCS and GOEs so they're not going to send her over someone who will. The fact that she was scored so low with "zero flaws" should tell you where she stands with national and international judges and WHY she's not a threat as things stand. Because she doesn't have the support of the Fed or the judges..

She needs to do well enough that the fact that she doesn't get favourable scoring internationally will be overlooked..She needs to do well enough that any mistakes she makes - and with riskier skates mistakes are increasingly more likely - the judges will do everything to save her. A 3A-less quad-less Kamila could do that. A 3A-less Aliona can do that. (Evgenia could do that. Alina could do that. Anna also can do that to some extent. Even Sasha and Liza have the reputation that judges won't let them fail completely.) (Even Daria and Alysa are examples of that. They made mistakes and Alysa was hammered for it more than she's ever been before but even then the judges somewhat had their backs. Everything you're saying supports that. Also being outscored by Alysa and Daria internationally is NOT going to help her case. As even Daria they likely won't send as things stand.) They have the PCS and GOE internationally. Ksenia doesn't - that's why she needs to dramatically outperform Aliona and Liza for it to even be a question of sending her. And even then it'll probably be looked as a one-off and they won't trust it. Especially with spots for the Olympics in play. It's also why if Aliona gets a 3A back it's over. She'll get favourable scoring without it and when she has it..she can beat anyone.

 

[MaggieLin]

I disagree.
Her short program really shows off a level of maturity and seriousness and dedication that I honestly haven't seen after Alyona. Daria's SP this season is also very good but I think Kseniia takes the trophy because not only does she interpret it well, but the choreography is actually good and lets her hold movements and match the music. She is a level above Zhenya in SS and better than Daria too (not by an insane amount though). Her FS is weaker in terms of interpretation and facial expression but the step sequence is much more unique and interesting than everything from the Eteri girls this season (and unique and interesting in a good way). She has good flexibility, especially in laybacks and ina bauers, she has wonderful transitions and makes wonderful use of them to match the music. She has good jumps, technically or aesthetically. The only thing I find lacking is facial expression, but in all honesty, when her movements are able to be so expressive I don't see a need to be facially expressive. Obviously it would be nice and would boost her even higher but I don't think it's something lacking per se.

I second this - Ksenia is such an overall underrated skater, and I do think her skating is more mature and dedicated compare to Alyona. I read her interview on how she went to the US to choreograph her programs (not that US choreography is it's necessarily better, but this is fairly rare for Russian skaters and I do appreciate her dedication. Plus, her programs are indeed better. She's so careful regarding every single move in her program. Ksenia tell stories in her programs, whereas Alyona does beautiful but plain step works. To some extent, I think Alyona has the potential to do what Ksenia is doing right now, but her programs have just been going downhill ever since her first junior season. Especially her FS in the recent two seasons are just...awful. Give this girl better programs!! Her PCS is not convincing to me at the moment.

That said, I don't think Ksenia should get a Worlds spot this season. She's still in recovery and her few results this season is not convincing enough. Might be a good thing for her - so she gets to stabilize her 3A & quad and she'll certainly earn more opportunities next season.

As for the third Worlds spot - I'd say if Alyona's 3A is back, I'd let her go. If not, I'd let Liza go. But the RusFed will probably send Alyona regardless...

 

[chasingneverland]

I second this - Ksenia is such an overall underrated skater, and I do think her skating is more mature and dedicated compare to Alyona. I read her interview on how she went to the US to choreograph her programs (not that US choreography is it's necessarily better, but this is fairly rare for Russian skaters and I do appreciate her dedication. Plus, her programs are indeed better. She's so careful regarding every single move in her program. Ksenia tell stories in her programs, whereas Alyona does beautiful but plain step works. To some extent, I think Alyona has the potential to do what Ksenia is doing right now, but her programs have just been going downhill ever since her first junior season. Especially her FS in the recent two seasons are just...awful. Give this girl better programs!! Her PCS is not convincing to me at the moment.

That said, I don't think Ksenia should get a Worlds spot this season. She's still in recovery and her few results this season is not convincing enough. Might be a good thing for her - so she gets to stabilize her 3A & quad and she'll certainly earn more opportunities next season.

As for the third Worlds spot - I'd say if Alyona's 3A is back, I'd let her go. If not, I'd let Liza go. But the RusFed will probably send Alyona regardless...

I agree! I love Ksenia!! She's beautiful. I just don't think she has a realistic chance of going this year.

If she can get her 3A/quad and score consistently well internationally next year, she has a change. She'd have to outscore one of Kamila, Sasha, or Anna consistently (as well as be ahead of Aliona, Daria, Liza, etc) and not due to them having a random fall but consistently and not have it be close because if it's close or due to fluke mistake they'll go with the others all of them have better reputations internationally and more Fed support. A lot can happen in a year so she has a chance, it's a lot to ask but there's a chance!!

 

[lopsilceci]

All ladies won big points for the team. Aside ladies SP and FS, did red machine won another program?

Tarasova and Morozov won both the SP and FS for team Red Machine.

That's another thing that bothered me after the first day of competition. Evgenia was bragging that her team won 3:1 individual disciplines when it was actually 2:2

And the teams really were balanced overall in scoring potential. What really made the difference for the winning team was which skaters had a good day and which ones had a bad day. That's it, no conspiracies from the organizers or anything like that.

 

[DougDorsey]

3 things:

1. Shcherbakova wasn't happy with her FS performance, the team aspect was clearly fun for the skaters but a bad performance possibly hurting someone else's chances at winning might have been the source
2. I don't think she's a 100% heallthy, pneumonia takes time to heal from plus she has to recover her stamina, she did no program run throughs prior to nationals and at this event she had 3 days of performing to do.
3. The clips you posted were fancam moments, similar to Valieva not smiling at Nationals till she noticed the camera on her, they are human not everyone is happy/perky or necessarily in the mood all the time.

Makes sense. I get that you don't want to read too much into any one clip, but it was pretty clear across multiple clips that Anya was in a foul mood, and Eteri was visibly consoling her in that one video.

And there's also the 1TV footage, which I didn't link to, of Anya not clapping after Kami's skate. (Which I don't interpret as anything anti-Kami; again, it just seemed that Anya was dispirited.)

 

[yume]

Tarasova and Morozov won both the SP and FS for team Red Machine.

That's another thing that bothered me after the first day of competition. Evgenia was bragging that her team won 3:1 individual disciplines when it was actually 2:2

And the teams really were balanced overall in scoring potential. What really made the difference for the winning team was which skaters had a good day and which ones had a bad day. That's it, no conspiracies from the organizers or anything like that.

I was talking about the total score in each segment, not the skater/pair who scored the most.

Zagitova had the edge only in ladies and if those ladies had not skated close to their full potential, red machine would have probably lost.

 

[Jontor]

I second this - Ksenia is such an overall underrated skater, and I do think her skating is more mature and dedicated compare to Alyona. I read her interview on how she went to the US to choreograph her programs (not that US choreography is it's necessarily better, but this is fairly rare for Russian skaters and I do appreciate her dedication. Plus, her programs are indeed better. She's so careful regarding every single move in her program. Ksenia tell stories in her programs, whereas Alyona does beautiful but plain step works. To some extent, I think Alyona has the potential to do what Ksenia is doing right now, but her programs have just been going downhill ever since her first junior season. Especially her FS in the recent two seasons are just...awful. Give this girl better programs!! Her PCS is not convincing to me at the moment.

That said, I don't think Ksenia should get a Worlds spot this season. She's still in recovery and her few results this season is not convincing enough. Might be a good thing for her - so she gets to stabilize her 3A & quad and she'll certainly earn more opportunities next season.

As for the third Worlds spot - I'd say if Alyona's 3A is back, I'd let her go. If not, I'd let Liza go. But the RusFed will probably send Alyona regardless...

I agree with you. As much as I love Ksenia, I don't think she can get a Worlds spot unless Kostornaia and Tuktamysheva are injured. But if Ksenia can have a clean skate at RC Final (if she's invited!), she would be my favourite to go. But I see that as a 1% chance...

Speaking of Kostornaia...I am not completely sure we will see her at RC Final. I have a funny feeling she might withdraw...again. And I also don't think we will see her 3A back anytime soon. I am probably wrong, but let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if any of that happens.
I think the Eteri team was masterful in disguising her weaknesses, the Plushy team not so much. And the little we've seen of her this season has been underwhelming. Sure, she had a troublesome season, but so did everyone! I wonder where Alëna's motivations are, I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem like she has the same drive and determination as Shcherbakova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva and others.

 

[Dawn825]

Speaking of Kostornaia...I am not completely sure we will see her at RC Final. I have a funny feeling she might withdraw...again. And I also don't think we will see her 3A back anytime soon. I am probably wrong, but let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if any of that happens.
I think the Eteri team was masterful in disguising her weaknesses, the Plushy team not so much. And the little we've see of her this season has been underwhelming. Sure, she had a troublesome season, but so did everyone! I wonder where Alëna's motivations are, I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem like she has the same drive and determination as Shcherbakova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva and others.

I really hope not. She needs to be at that event in great shape or her chances of making the Olympic team will shrivel. It's probably too much to hope that she gets her triple axel back in a month but I'm gonna keep hoping anyways. She could possibly make the World team without it, but she probably won't win a medal. (I'm still not convinced the event will happen but let's pretend it's going to.) I suppose even if she does withdraw, there's a chance she gets her act together with triple axels in the 6 months or so before next season. But then Trusova will probably have a World medal and she won't, which will work against her if the last spot on the Olympic team comes down to the 2 of them.

 

[macy]

i guess i didn't realize there was still so much tension between Alina and Evgenia. its unfortunate this competition and the conference that followed only gave new fuel to the fan wars. i also didn't know they didn't follow each other on IG, i figured they were at least civil.

 

[chasingneverland]

Oh! Apologies I didn't know there was Volvo Open Cup and Denis Ten Challenge too since Skating scores website doesn't keep track of those competitions.

All good! Both are outliers. I would say the 215 and 176 was for Ksenia and the 211 was for Daria. Although both are better this year than the were last year.

I would say both are around 210 internationally right now baring meltdowns or surprises.

 

[macy]

I agree with you. As much as I love Ksenia, I don't think she can get a Worlds spot unless Kostornaia and Tuktamysheva are injured. But if Ksenia can have a clean skate at RC Final (if she's invited!), she would be my favourite to go. But I see that as a 1% chance...

Speaking of Kostornaia...I am not completely sure we will see her at RC Final. I have a funny feeling she might withdraw...again. And I also don't think we will see her 3A back anytime soon. I am probably wrong, but let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if any of that happens.
I think the Eteri team was masterful in disguising her weaknesses, the Plushy team not so much. And the little we've see of her this season has been underwhelming. Sure, she had a troublesome season, but so did everyone! I wonder where Alëna's motivations are, I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem like she has the same drive and determination as Shcherbakova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva and others.

it's pretty unfair to assume she doesn't have the same drive as other skaters, who didn't face all the problems she had this season. yes, it was a tougher season for everyone than normal, but she missed way more training time, changed coaches, had boot problems, was injured, and had covid. all of this kept her off the ice much longer than the other skaters. she hasn't been able to get in shape and stay in shape...if she's not in competitive shape then she's not going to compete. why would this point to not being driven?

 

[chasingneverland]

Makes sense. I get that you don't want to read too much into any one clip, but it was pretty clear across multiple clips that Anya was in a foul mood, and Eteri was visibly consoling her in that one video.

And there's also the 1TV footage, which I didn't link to, of Anya not clapping after Kami's skate. (Which I don't interpret as anything anti-Kami; again, it just seemed that Anya was dispirited.)

After the FS she still had to go. She was focused on her own performance. After the SP she did clap, just not overly excitedly. Besides she's not the only one who looked disappointed after her skate. I thought Sasha did too especially after her scores came up.

 

[chasingneverland]

I was talking about the total score in each segment, not the skater/pair who scored the most.

Zagitova had the edge only in ladies and if those ladies had not skated close to their full potential, red machine would have probably lost.

Eh, I would say Anna didn't skate close to full potential. She hasn't had a big mistake on a non-quad element in a while.

And even then - Sasha and Maiia also had mistakes. (And Liza had little ones.) The issue is that Sasha (Blue team #1) (with mistakes) barely outscored Daria (Red team #3) (clean but with no difficult elements). (Although that's an interesting question for judging. But I also think Sasha was a bit lucky with that 4Lz combo thing.)