2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 868 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Fluture said:
Correction: Evgenia chose first in pairs and dance, while Alina was allowed first pick in men and ladies. See here:


Criticism could be made that generally, singles are the more decisive disciplines, so getting first choice in both makes it a bit unbalanced. Maybe something to consider for future editions.
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Also there were only four pairs so the scoring potential the team could gain based off of the strength of pairs was also decreased.

Like say if there were six pairs (the top six at RusNats), Zhenya might've been able to gain more of a lead because P/R would be able to overtake K/B by quite some on a good day (or on a bad day tbh).
 
anonymoose_au said:
Oh yeah and THEN she went a reposted a story from her fan club showing that in some other (unofficial) poll her team would have won the audience award too. Wow, that's stellar sportsmanship isn't it? Bravo.
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Alina always reposts polls, where her fans vote for her, she’s done so numerous times before. She does it to thank her fans for supporting her.
oh, and the poll came from an OFFICIAL Russian Olympic committee VK page.
 
TripleAxelQueens3 said:
Also there were only four pairs so the scoring potential the team could gain based off of the strength of pairs was also decreased.

Like say if there were six pairs (the top six at RusNats), Zhenya might've been able to gain more of a lead because P/R would be able to overtake K/B by quite some on a good day (or on a bad day tbh).
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Well, who could be the other two pairs? Panfilova/Rylov and Kadyrova/Balchenko (probably not Artemeva/Nazarychev as they just skated at junior nationals)? I don't think that dividing them among the teams in either combination would affect the whole results in a decesive ways if they would deliver their standard. I would't mind if there were two more pairs, but I think it would require to divide the pairs into two warm-up groups and that was probably considered as too long, so four pairs were the just for the practical reasons from the perspective of the competition format.
 
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Oh my, this thread is wild.
So Medvedeva felt she was set up to lose and verbalized it. She said they’re all winners and Alina stressed that HER team won.
Does that sum up all the drama?
I doubt these 2 are seriously fighting over it almost a week later. Wasn’t Zhenya winking after making comments? They’re both extremely competitive and wanted their team to win, but come on.....do you honestly think this silly press conference was that important to either of them?
I feel sorry for both these girls. Alina won the Olympics by a very slim margin and maybe she feels insecure because it was so close despite her backloading and many people suggesting it was so close that they should both have gold. Maybe Medvedeva doesn’t like losing to Alina, but let’s not forget that she lost to her at Worlds also. So all of our opinions are speculation. I just don’t know that the girls deserve all the drama and negativity.
I feel sorry for Kamila and Anna if Kamila gets gold at the Olympics. I see this situation all over again. There is no villain.
 
Znowflake, I see that you like facts, so this one's for you...

So, just out of curiosity, I made a few experiments with the ladies scores in a helpful excel sheet, to be able to see if there was actually any basis to Evgenia's claim that the teams weren't balanced in scoring potential. I used different scenarios:

1) Actual results: Team Alina wins by 28,73 points.
2) Without ladies: Team Evgenia wins by 54,76 points.
3) Switching first seeds Sasha-Anna: Team Alina wins by 7,21 points.
4) Switching second seeds Liza - Kamila: Team Evgenia wins by 68,57 points.
5) Switching third seeds Maiia - Daria: Team Evgenia wins by 19,43 points.
6) Switching Kamila/Daria for Liza/Maiia: Team Evgenia wins by 116,73 points.
7) Switching ALL the ladies: Team Evgenia wins by 138,25 points.

The only other scenario where Team Alina could have won is by switching teams for Sasha and Anna, and by a minimal difference.

It's interesting that by switching Daria and Maiia, team Evgenia would have won but the difference is actually very small, so it seems like Maiia's performance didn't significantly influence the actual results.

Basically, the only thing that made possible Team Alina's win is that Kamila not only added difficulty to her jump layout but actually landed all her jumps cleanly, while Sasha didn't attempt 3A in the short, fell on one quad and had a bad landing on the second quad and only landed the third quad cleanly. Liza also popped her SP 3A and then didn't have clean landing on her other 3As. Maiia also added difficulty but unfortunately fell on one quad and had a bad landing on the other quad.

Kamila would have won Nationals if she had skated the way she did here. The scoring potential for both ladies teams was more or less balanced if they had all been clean, but pretty much only Kamila exceeded the expectations and skated to her full potential, while all the other ladies had at least one mistake (Daria doubled one jump in her combo but otherwise had two great skates and she had the lowest scoring potential).

So my final conclusion is that, if the teams were unbalanced, it was more in favor of Team Evgenia, because she had the strongest team without ladies and even by switching the ladies, her team would have won by a much larger margin in most scenarios than the actual final result.
 
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lopsilceci said:
The scoring potential for both ladies teams was more or less balanced if they had all been clean, but pretty much only Kamila exceeded the expectations and skated to her full potential, while all the other ladies had at least one mistake (Daria doubled one jump in her combo but otherwise had two great skates and she had the lowest scoring potential).

So my final conclusion is that, if the teams were unbalanced, it was more in favor of Team Evgenia, because she had the strongest team without ladies and even by switching the ladies, her team would have won by a much larger margin in most scenarios than the actual final result.
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The scoring potential of the ladies was not balanced at all. You can't really compare the scoring potential of Kamila, Anna and Sasha to the rest. And worse of all, the ladies is the discipline that had the most dramatic scoring difference (one person ~180 and another ~130. ~50 point difference !), another issue was that the top athletes were seeded, which was very unnecessary, so it made it impossible for for Evgenia to pick her dream team. I can see how she can feel salty about it especially because it was not planned and it sprung upon her at the last minute.
 
I'm having problems understanding all those theories, ideas and explanations on why Team Evgenia lost.

They lost because they made too many mistakes, simple as that.
While Alinas ladies were relatively clean, without major mistakes, lets sum up blue team ladies:
- Maia a quad fall, a quad pop and a mistake on 2A.
-Sasha a quad fall, questionable combination.
-Liza a 3A pop, a few "turn outs".

And that's only from what I saw amd remember.
Errors make you lose points and losing points makes you lose competitions.

Do we really have to analyse and look for a hidden agenda in everything?
 
*~RussianBleux~* said:
This assumes they actually care and are not trying to rig it from the start.
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What?

How can they rig this event when there's so much talent? Both teams were loaded with skilled skaters. Also didn't Zhenyas team win 3 of the 4 disciplines?

I thought the teams were evenly balanced for the most part. I also thought it was a nice of that great comaraderie. Something nice for the Russian federation to do replacing Europeans. I think if this happens again it should be like Russia against the rest of Europe that would be more interesting.
 
lopsilceci said:
Znowflake, I see that you like facts, so this one's for you...

So, just out of curiosity, I made a few experiments with the ladies scores in a helpful excel sheet, to be able to see if there was actually any basis to Evgenia's claim that the teams weren't balanced in scoring potential. I used different scenarios:

1) Actual results: Team Alina wins by 28,73 points.
2) Without ladies: Team Evgenia wins by 54,76 points.
3) Switching first seeds Sasha-Anna: Team Alina wins by 7,21 points.
4) Switching second seeds Liza - Kamila: Team Evgenia wins by 68,57 points.
5) Switching third seeds Maiia - Daria: Team Evgenia wins by 19,43 points.
6) Switching Kamila/Daria for Liza/Maiia: Team Evgenia wins by 116,73 points.
7) Switching ALL the ladies: Team Evgenia wins by 138,25 points.

The only other scenario where Team Alina could have won is by switching teams for Sasha and Anna, and by a minimal difference.

It's interesting that by switching Daria and Maiia, team Evgenia would have won but the difference is actually very small, so it seems like Maiia's performance didn't significantly influence the actual results.

Basically, the only thing that made possible Team Alina's win is that Kamila not only added difficulty to her jump layout but actually landed all her jumps cleanly, while Sasha didn't attempt 3A in the short, fell on one quad and had a bad landing on the second quad and only landed the third quad cleanly. Liza also popped her SP 3A and then didn't have clean landing on her other 3As. Maiia also added difficulty but unfortunately fell on one quad and had a bad landing on the other quad.

Kamila would have won Nationals if she had skated the way she did here. The scoring potential for both ladies teams was more or less balanced if they had all been clean, but pretty much only Kamila exceeded the expectations and skated to her full potential, while all the other ladies had at least one mistake (Daria doubled one jump in her combo but otherwise had two great skates and she had the lowest scoring potential).

So my final conclusion is that, if the teams were unbalanced, it was more in favor of Team Evgenia, because she had the strongest team without ladies and even by switching the ladies, her team would have won by a much larger margin in most scenarios than the actual final result.
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That was kinda my point. Acting like Maiia threw away the win is wrong, objectively and mathematically. If anything Kamila completely exceeded expectations. Daria skated to potential. EVERYONE ELSE did NOT - Anna, Sasha, Liza, AND Maiia all did not skate to potential.
 
Thrashergurl said:
Oh my, this thread is wild.
So Medvedeva felt she was set up to lose and verbalized it. She said they’re all winners and Alina stressed that HER team won.
Does that sum up all the drama?
I doubt these 2 are seriously fighting over it almost a week later. Wasn’t Zhenya winking after making comments? They’re both extremely competitive and wanted their team to win, but come on.....do you honestly think this silly press conference was that important to either of them?
I feel sorry for both these girls. Alina won the Olympics by a very slim margin and maybe she feels insecure because it was so close despite her backloading and many people suggesting it was so close that they should both have gold. Maybe Medvedeva doesn’t like losing to Alina, but let’s not forget that she lost to her at Worlds also. So all of our opinions are speculation. I just don’t know that the girls deserve all the drama and negativity.
I feel sorry for Kamila and Anna if Kamila gets gold at the Olympics. I see this situation all over again. There is no villain.
Click to expand...
Very true there are no villains here

The Anna and KV situation parallels Zhenya and Alina. Its unbelievable. I just don't know if Anna is s mentor to Kamilla the way Zhenya was to Alina. Remember Anna saw the entire Zhenya and Alina Olympic situation unfold. Anna seems like nothing fazes her so maybe Kamila nipping at her heels does not bother a dam bit.

The question now is how can the great coach straddle the fence with Anna and KV to the point where they both stay happy the next couple years? I mean Anna has been with EG for 13 years she is like the 3rd daughter of this woman. ;) KV is a phenom at 14 like we've not seen before. It should be interesting to see what happens and if Eteri can keep them happy as well as all the other great female talent she coaches.
 
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