2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

GPs are named before test skates. And Russia has never been shy about giving opportunities to 15 year olds. Her age shouldn't be the limiting factor.

I want them to hold some of the GPs back until after test skates so we know who's healthy and who's not.

There are too many girls to consider to just give them all out in June after an abbreviated season anyway. And we're still going to have the coronavirus Factor but hopefully it will be on the decline big time.

 

[Mathman]

What's stopping them from naming Zagitova to whichever GP (even knowing she won't really go),

Because that wuld be dishonest and a cheat, falsely pretending to send someone when you know it's not really going to happen.

 

[Amei]

First of All, Kseniia hasn't really showed anything more than Evgenia or Alina this year so that's not really a good comparison. And no one competed internationally.

Second of all, Sofia earned her World Ranking - how is that unfair? (For that matter Alina and Evgenia more than earned theres too.)

This issue is there needs to be more spots - not that they don't deserve spots.

That's because the Worlds standings take the last 3 seasons into account to determine the ranking so the fact that Samodurova won Europeans 2 seasons ago is why she's ranked so high, its the similar thing that happened with several Russian skaters like Sotskova and Konstantinova (though they didn't win Europeans) they have a really good season then a fairly mediocre season but then the following season they are still eligible for GP assignments based on world ranking even though they aren't near the form they were 2 seasons ago when they were really good and their country has better skaters that should be getting a shot at the GP. I think the Fed's should be able to prioritize skater's that are in better shape to compete.

 

[Amei]

Because that wuld be dishonest and a cheat, falsely pretending to send someone when you know it's not really going to happen.

Kinda like advertising she was going to be at test skates?

 

[lopsilceci]

As sad as it is for me to admit it, I also don't think Alina is coming back next season, even though I think she could still give a lot of good fights in the GP/challenger circuit.
But I really doubt she will take GP spots or a national team spot if she knows she's not going to skate. Financially and psychologically, it wouldn't make a lot of sense either.
If she does come back, I'm sure she'll be on the reserve team. Same for Evgenia. It would be really surprising if any of them are included in the main team without having competed at all this season and without at least proving that they're back at their top competitive shape.

 

[Skatesocs]

Because that wuld be dishonest and a cheat, falsely pretending to send someone when you know it's not really going to happen.

This doesn't answer the question "what's stopping them?".

 

[ruga]

This doesn't answer the question "what's stopping them?".

The fact that host federation chooses skaters. Senior GP is not like Junior where countries choose who to send . Also, full assignments are published in summer. So Russia can neither wait for Test skates, nor withdraw anyone and hope that a Russian skater will be chosen. It only applies to Rostelecom and Russia usually leaves 1 TBD spot there or none at all by the time assignments are published.

 

[flanker]

When Daria was talked about here, she already has a place in hearts of little girls

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLV7LxbJW0c/

 

[Vilord]

The fact that host federation chooses skaters. Senior GP is not like Junior where countries choose who to send . Also, full assignments are published in summer. So Russia can neither wait for Test skates, nor withdraw anyone and hope that a Russian skater will be chosen. It only applies to Rostelecom and Russia usually leaves 1 TBD spot there or none at all by the time assignments are published.

I would say that normally when I russian (or japanese) skaters withdraws from a GP they are replaced with the next (by SB ranking) skater from that contry. The reserve list for GPs is if im not incorrect based on the SB ranking and since Russia (and Japan) allways gets the maximum number of spots (at least in ladies) the top of the Reserve list is filled with russians (and japanese) who can only be subsituted in if someone from their own contry withdraws. However as you say RusFed dont get to choose who (if anyone) gets to replace the withdrawn skater so I dont think its in their best interest to submit skaters with no intention of actually competing.

 

[PiggytailProdigy]

Apparently, Melkumova switched to CSKA, while Dzepka changed coached within CSKA. Snowman is disappointed.

can anyone translate this please? what is the video talking about?

 

[chasingneverland]

That's because the Worlds standings take the last 3 seasons into account to determine the ranking so the fact that Samodurova won Europeans 2 seasons ago is why she's ranked so high, its the similar thing that happened with several Russian skaters like Sotskova and Konstantinova (though they didn't win Europeans) they have a really good season then a fairly mediocre season but then the following season they are still eligible for GP assignments based on world ranking even though they aren't near the form they were 2 seasons ago when they were really good and their country has better skaters that should be getting a shot at the GP. I think the Fed's should be able to prioritize skater's that are in better shape to compete.

I know why.

However, that's how it's evaluated - your issue can be with that not that Sofia should get a spot she's earned through the same method everyone goes through. And through that she earned her spot - if the RusFed names her. And her competitors will have their chances - remember Mishin's skaters go to 2-3 CS events a year (in addition to GP events) - that's actually how they earn some of their points - other skaters are welcome to do the same. Sofia took her chances when she had them also - skating consistently and exceeding expectations. She should be rewarded for that as she's earned it. Also other than Anna, Sasha, Kamila, Daria, Maiia (maybe), Aliona, and Liza T (who are definitely getting spots so she's not taking theirs), she's at the same level as most of the other skaters. Yes, I love Liza N and she's stunning, however all of Sofia S, Anastasia G, Maria T, Liza N, Anastasia T, and Anna F are at about the same level - they're all 185-200 skaters. So it's not like Sofia is stealing someone's spot - none of the above are 215+ skaters and none are known for their consistency, rotations, or competitive prowess. Liza N had the skate of her life here and scored around 200 (at a domestic event) - plus she's prone to under rotations and can't count on favourable calls internationally, nor does she have the PCS or GOE internationally either. For that matter you can probably add Kseniia too this too, as it stands. She's got a higher ceiling and is an absolutely beautiful skater but she's not known for her consistency either (particularly in the SP) - she's had one skate at 215 and the rest tend to be same range as the rest - 185-200. (She'll probably upgrade but right now she's not at all a better bet than Sofia S and if she proves to be - she'll get her chances.)

 

[silveruskate]

Not competing during the Covid season shouldn't be held against them. I think the main problem for Alina and Zhenya is that this is 2 Nationals in a row now that they haven't completed.

But it's also true that 2020 Nationals, the 4th best score was 204 by Tuktamysheva, and 2021 the 5th best score was Khromykh at 212.

 

[Shayuki]

But wasn't Melkumova's old coach bad at teaching jumps? I recall she had to learn all triples by herself or something.

I wonder if Dzepka switched to Davydov.

Hm, that'd be problematic if Melkumova had to learn them on her own... Melkumova's problem of course was that she could never skate clean. She was jumping layouts that were way too difficult, and was falling some 5 times per competition on average, and had tiny elevation most of the time, although by the end of 2019 it was getting better. It's no wonder she would get injured with such layouts competition after competition, and it also is no surprise she might have wanted a change.

The group's girls had extremely tiny jumps, and Krivonosova for example used to do very simple jump layouts for her age. This is the first reason her layout's even been competitive at all with her peers, to be honest. In my opinion, the jump tech on Melkumova and Krivonosova has been quite proper, correct edges, good picking.

Melkumova always had major issues with power transfer, she got zero elevation even with seemingly proper technique. I think she was swinging too much and wasn't using her legs enough. Krivonosova has better, more steady technique and actually gets some fantastic power transfer now, it seems very economic. She's honestly improved so much in a year it's hard to believe.


Krivonosova repeated the same FS, so it's pretty easy to see the difference.

FS from Moscow Championships 2020:

- YouTube

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FS from Moscow Championships 2021:

- YouTube

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Such an improvement, especially in terms of jumping. She had tiny jumps with disasterous rotation speed, now the jumps can actually even be considered good. Also some pretty visible skating skill improvement, although she was good back then too.


I'd say Melkumova also showed some improvements in terms of jumps but she never got any consistency with them at all... Not sure CSKA's the right place to fix that. And the unfortunate thing is, CSKA also is such a big club that switching to a better one isn't an obvious choice either, like it would be with Moskvich.

I don't think anyone's even entered JGP from Moskvich recently. Viktoria Vasilieva switched to CSKA, and Kamila Valieva to Sambo-70, of course.

 

[Scott512]

That's because the Worlds standings take the last 3 seasons into account to determine the ranking so the fact that Samodurova won Europeans 2 seasons ago is why she's ranked so high, its the similar thing that happened with several Russian skaters like Sotskova and Konstantinova (though they didn't win Europeans) they have a really good season then a fairly mediocre season but then the following season they are still eligible for GP assignments based on world ranking even though they aren't near the form they were 2 seasons ago when they were really good and their country has better skaters that should be getting a shot at the GP. I think the Fed's should be able to prioritize skater's that are in better shape to compete.

So well said Amei..

Russian federation cannot afford to waste Grand Prix events anymore like they did 2 years ago with so many girls deserving these events. And like you said the federation needs to pinpoint which skaters are in good form to give a Grand Prix event to versus who did well 2 or 3 years before.

The federation also has to get AZ to make a commitment or not. I cut her slack for this season because of Coronavirus thinking maybe she wanted to compete but who wants to compete when you can catch the virus crippling the world? Like I said yesterday I think there's about a 1% chance that she will compete again. Alina just has too much going on in her life especially with University to devote her life to figure skating competitively again. So she loses any Grand Prix events or challengers or funding.

The more interesting case right now is Zhenya. We know she wants to compete again but she has to get healthy first and become stronger. If she can do that I think she gets at least one Grand Prix event probably 2 and 2 or 3 challengers. Plus Russian cup events and nationals she will have a full schedule next season if she's physically up to it.

But Zhenya is suffering from the after effects in Corona virus right now and she also has what is it a lesion on her lung and nerve damage near her spine. That's some scary stuff. Can she get healthier is the key questions?

 

[NaVi]

I wonder if Dzepka switched to Davydov.

Buyanova

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLV7UGKp8n8/

 

[Shayuki]

Well, I assume that Dzepka's just a natural skating skill talent because no one else from her past groups showed any significant skating skills, so I just hope that her jumps can be helped, although I am pretty sceptical at this point. Next season will be very telling already, she'll actually be 12 years old and might even aim for junior nationals.

Melkumova as well but her status is a complete mystery to me. Generally I'd assume that to mean bad things but we'll see...

 

[Dawn825]

The more interesting case right now is Zhenya. We know she wants to compete again but she has to get healthy first and become stronger. If she can do that I think she gets at least one Grand Prix event probably 2 and 2 or 3 challengers. Plus Russian cup events and nationals she will have a full schedule next season if she's physically up to it.

But Zhenya is suffering from the after effects in Corona virus right now and she also has what is it a lesion on her lung and nerve damage near her spine. That's some scary stuff. Can she get healthier is the key questions?

That's what I'm worried about - I know Evgenia really wants to compete (whereas I don't think Alina feels the need), but I suspect her body will not be able to sustain prolonged high level training anymore.

 

[halulupu]

Hm, that'd be problematic if Melkumova had to learn them on her own... Melkumova's problem of course was that she could never skate clean. She was jumping layouts that were way too difficult, and was falling some 5 times per competition on average, and had tiny elevation most of the time, although by the end of 2019 it was getting better. It's no wonder she would get injured with such layouts competition after competition, and it also is no surprise she might have wanted a change.

The group's girls had extremely tiny jumps, and Krivonosova for example used to do very simple jump layouts for her age. This is the first reason her layout's even been competitive at all with her peers, to be honest. In my opinion, the jump tech on Melkumova and Krivonosova has been quite proper, correct edges, good picking.

Melkumova always had major issues with power transfer, she got zero elevation even with seemingly proper technique. I think she was swinging too much and wasn't using her legs enough. Krivonosova has better, more steady technique and actually gets some fantastic power transfer now, it seems very economic. She's honestly improved so much in a year it's hard to believe.


Krivonosova repeated the same FS, so it's pretty easy to see the difference.

FS from Moscow Championships 2020:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

FS from Moscow Championships 2021:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Such an improvement, especially in terms of jumping. She had tiny jumps with disasterous rotation speed, now the jumps can actually even be considered good. Also some pretty visible skating skill improvement, although she was good back then too.


I'd say Melkumova also showed some improvements in terms of jumps but she never got any consistency with them at all... Not sure CSKA's the right place to fix that. And the unfortunate thing is, CSKA also is such a big club that switching to a better one isn't an obvious choice either, like it would be with Moskvich.

I don't think anyone's even entered JGP from Moskvich recently. Viktoria Vasilieva switched to CSKA, and Kamila Valieva to Sambo-70, of course.

Isn't this a ladies threat?

 

[MaggieLin]

Oh dear, Melkumova and Dzepka are two of my favourite younger skaters...such skating skills and musicality!!
Especially Melkumova - her talent amazed me since early 2018, even when she was messing her jumps all over the place. The way she used two Waltz jumps to enter 3T was very imaginative (2017-2018, sky blue dress). And boy, those spins, skating skills and knee bend...I still watch her Ice Age programs time to time.

That spin starting 1:30...is from a 10yo??

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That's what I'm worried about - I know Evgenia really wants to compete (whereas I don't think Alina feels the need), but I suspect her body will not be able to sustain prolonged high level training anymore.

In Italy it would be possible to go between high and low level training depending of the season, competitions, and readiness of the body in the competitive season (and Caro is a perfect example). In Russia, i doubt that is possible (and i'm so sorry for it, but that's the reality).
Edit: But i'm expecting one more try from her to qualify for the Olympics (just that), and i will be more than happy with her competitive career