2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Sasha is a difficult case for conclusions. We don't know how the ulimate showdown among 3A would go if the worlds weren't cancelled.

But without any proof I believe that she could do better with TT than she is doing now. With Eteri Sasha tried to jump 5 quads. She was the main candidate for gold in any competition that she entered. Gold was always hers to lose so that her last year loss to Anna was like a cold shower. I was flying back with the team and Sasha looked embarassed.

This year it is Anna's gold to lose. That's a big difference no matter what real and imaginary improvements one sees in Sasha's skating.

That's an amazing story on flying back with the team and that Sasha looked embarrassed but she should not have been. We all know if she hit her quads she would have won. The level Sasha Anna and Aliona gave us last season is like nothing we've ever seen from 3 skaters in the same discipline from the same country. Only covid stopped their record setting dominance.

Sasha has been a bit limited this short season with an injury. I don't think she can train 4 quads let alone 5.

Sure we don't know or cant tell yet if she will be better or worse away from TT. It's too soon to tell. But Sasha is still a threat for 240 and gold any event she enters.

 

[chasingneverland]

And skaters are normaly at the the downfall already when they leave. Why is this being ignored? No matter if Yulia, Medvedeva or Trusova, they all already struggled when they were with Eteri. It's not something that startet miraculously AFTER leaving her. These skaters at least try to fix the issues and keep competing under another coach, while others stay and go down despite staying with Eteri. Let's remember Zagitova's last competition, where she ended on the last place, or where is Tursynbaeva? You can't claim this happend to them because they left TT, because they never did

Alina's last competiton she ended in last place at a Grand Prix FINALS!! (Do you remember what it takes to reach the GPF and how many skaters in the world qualify??) AND she took SECOND in the SP and scored over 200 points which few else in the world can do. Let's not pretend that she forgot how to skate or had a precipitous drop off.

And as for Elizabet let's not act like injuries only happen to one coaches' skaters. And she won a SILVER at 4CCs and World's. Those are achievements that few others have done.

Evgenia left Eteri after winning a silver medal at the OLYMPICS. Sasha left Eteri after winning a bronze medal at the GPFs and at Euros. Let's not act like that's a downfall.

If you're going to diminish people's accomplishments it's probably not a good idea to do so by talking about Olympic and World's medalists, one of whom achieved that after returning to Eteri. (You might have a better chance doing so if talking about someone like Polina but even she is a JGPF champion.)

 

[chasingneverland]

That's an amazing story on flying back with the team and that Sasha looked embarrassed but she should not have been.

Which competition is this?

 

[Scott512]

I wish that Kolyada did a 3Lz in the SP instead of his disastrous attempt on 4Lz. That poor decision was the key driver of Russia's loss. I was there and I was very depressed to see his meltdown. I think that he was very disappointed himself to drop the ball when it mattered most.

Whose decision was that and did it cost them the team gold? Hopefully the men won't be the issue in Beijing.

If Russia had won the team gold in 2018 Alina would have another gold and Zhenya would have a team gold. It looks like Russia will have men skating at a higher level in 2022 Winter Olympics than they did in the 2018. That should help because we know Russian ladies and pairs are loaded.

 

[Scott512]

Which competition is this?

I think Sam was talking about Russian nationals inside the area when satia was still with EG. I think Sam probably flew back to Moscow with them.

I also think sasha put an enormous amount of pressure on herself since she was 14. And if you can't live up to your own standards which are in the stratosphere which is like Edwin used to call her from the cosmos or whatever it was then that could negatively affect your performance too.

This is a different Sashs and now but she still plays for 240 points and is contention for gold every event she enters.

 

[Scott512]

Alina's last competiton she ended in last place at a Grand Prix FINALS!! (Do you remember what it takes to reach the GPF and how many skaters in the world qualify??) AND she took SECOND in the SP and scored over 200 points which few else in the world can do. Let's not pretend that she forgot how to skate or had a precipitous drop off.

And as for Elizabet let's not act like injuries only happen to one coaches' skaters. And she won a SILVER at 4CCs and World's. Those are achievements that few others have done.

Evgenia left Eteri after winning a silver medal at the OLYMPICS. Sasha left Eteri after winning a bronze medal at the GPFs and at Euros. Let's not act like that's a downfall.

If you're going to diminish people's accomplishments it's probably not a good idea to do so by talking about Olympic and World's medalists, one of whom achieved that after returning to Eteri. (You might have a better chance doing so if talking about someone like Polina but even she is a JGPF champion.)

That is the perfect detailed answer.

 

[chasingneverland]

I think Sam was talking about Russian nationals inside the area when satia was still with EG. I think Sam probably flew back to Moscow with them.

I also think sasha put an enormous amount of pressure on herself since she was 14. And if you can't live up to your own standards which are in the stratosphere which is like Edwin used to call her from the cosmos or whatever it was then that could negatively affect your performance too.

This is a different Sashs and now but she still plays for 240 points and is contention for gold every event she enters.

Oh agreed. I think with Sasha it's all mental. (Or was, it's hard to know how much her injury is playing a role now.)

I think they're all under an incredible amount of pressure but being the trendsetter and not feeling like you're living up to external expectations (and your own too) must be crushing. I really feel for her - she's such a talented cutie. That said, it's not like she hasn't. She IS still skating incredibly difficult programs with multiple quads - she almost always has the highest planned tech content - and she's getting much better artistically!! It's just that (1) she sometimes seems to melt a bit under pressure (understandable even when she lands everything in practices) and (2) her rivals have upped their tech to be able to match her and for the most part they're better competitors.

Although to say she isn't a gold medal threat in every competition she enters is to massively underestimate her talent, skill, and potential (as well as showing a blatant ignorance for things like math.) It's disrespectful to both her and her competitors. Russia is just deep and there are many gold medal threats; however, Sasha is VERY MUCH one of them and has made the switch to senior beautifully - which is all anyone could have hoped for.

 

[Shayuki]

Hm Alena Zhilina FS didn't go very well, and total competition score of just 110 and 3rd place. Should be in another competition in a week though(Alena Krivonosova also there) and then the younger age nationals would likely be next. There's also some CSKA competition in just over a week I believe with the CSKA skaters such as Prineva and Nosova.

They really compete a lot at this age don't they? A competition every week, multiple ones some weeks. Meanwhile these seniors compete just a couple of times per season, quite a drastic contrast. You'd imagine competing more often would make one a stronger competitor since no training can replicate the feeling of a genuine competition but...

Feels like they've gone through some 3 or 4 competitions while we've been waiting for Cup of Russia final to begin.

 

[Scott512]

Oh agreed. I think with Sasha it's all mental. (Or was, it's hard to know how much her injury is playing a role now.)

I think they're all under an incredible amount of pressure but being the trendsetter and not feeling like you're living up to external expectations (and your own too) must be crushing. I really feel for her - she's such a talented cutie. That said, it's not like she hasn't. She IS still skating incredibly difficult programs with multiple quads - she almost always has the highest planned tech content - and she's getting much better artistically!! It's just that (1) she sometimes seems to melt a bit under pressure (understandable even when she lands everything in practices) and (2) her rivals have upped their tech to be able to match her and for the most part they're better competitors.

Although to say she isn't a gold medal threat in every competition she enters is to massively underestimate her talent, skill, and potential (as well as showing a blatant ignorance for things like math.) It's disrespectful to both her and her competitors. Russia is just deep and there are many gold medal threats; however, Sasha is VERY MUCH one of them and has made the switch to senior beautifully - which is all anyone could have hoped for.

I don't know it will show has better competitors than sasha. I think they have many great competitors and Sasha is one.

Y que I think some of this is mental and the internal expectations she has are off the charts. Hope the way this injury of hers will not hamper sasha at worlds

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Hm Alena Zhilina FS didn't go very well, and total competition score of just 110 and 3rd place. Should be in another competition in a week though(Alena Krivonosova also there) and then the younger age nationals would likely be next. There's also some CSKA competition in just over a week I believe with the CSKA skaters such as Prineva and Nosova.

They really compete a lot at this age don't they? A competition every week, multiple ones some weeks. Meanwhile these seniors compete just a couple of times per season, quite a drastic contrast. You'd imagine competing more often would make one a stronger competitor since no training can replicate the feeling of a genuine competition but...

Feels like they've gone through some 3 or 4 competitions while we've been waiting for Cup of Russia final to begin.

I thought Alena Zhilina didn't qualify for younger age nationals?

And yes, I was looking at Krivonosova and Sarymsakova's all skaters.info pages and It feels like they have a competition every week! I guess at this age, building up confidence in competitions is key. I just hope they don't tire these girls out before the big and important competitions come up later.

 

[Amei]

Isn't that the ego problem that Tarakanova had which caused her to leave TT? She wanted to be the STAR and didn't like skating with all the Eteri girls that routinely beat her even when she was clean. She shoulda stayed. Look where she is now. Actually who even knows where she is now. Unwise choice.

Tarakanova was only with Eteri the 2017-2018 season and the only other Eteri skaters that beat her were Kostornaia/Trusova at the JGPF and Jr. Nationals, at Nationals she beat Shcherbakova (this was when Shcherbakova was returning from the leg break). In seasons prior to that she was actually beating the Eteri girls at some of the pre-Junior age divisions. Tarakanova's problem based on what I can see is that she's typical teenager a bit flighty (based on what's been said when she left Eteri, she was actually going to leave the sport) and over-emotional (if we believe what Plushenko said) which doesn't work well with elite level training. Hopefully she doesn't regret choices that she has made too much and is happy; I don't remember Eteri commenting about her when she left and Eteri is not backwards about airing the dirty laundry of her students that decide to leave, so if there was an ego or attitude problem I don't think Eteri would have specially shielded Tarakanova.

 

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Which competition is this?

Rusnats in Krasnoyarsk

 

[Shayuki]

I thought Alena Zhilina didn't qualify for younger age nationals?

And yes, I was looking at Krivonosova and Sarymsakova's all skaters.info pages and It feels like they have a competition every week! I guess at this age, building up confidence in competitions is key. I just hope they don't tire these girls out before the big and important competitions come up later.

She didn't, I didn't mean to use that when talking about her specifically which is why I edited my post but I guess you caught it before that.

Not every skater is skating all the time, this year there seems to be more than usual...Making up for lost time earlier? Hm

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't know it will show has better competitors than sasha. I think they have many great competitors and Sasha is one.

Y que I think some of this is mental and the internal expectations she has are off the charts. Hope the way this injury of hers will not hamper sasha at worlds

By better competitors I meant they - as it stands - seem to have more of a competitors mindset. Not that they aren't all talented skaters.

 

[Finley]

Alina's last competiton she ended in last place at a Grand Prix FINALS!! (Do you remember what it takes to reach the GPF and how many skaters in the world qualify??) AND she took SECOND in the SP and scored over 200 points which few else in the world can do. Let's not pretend that she forgot how to skate or had a precipitous drop off.

And as for Elizabet let's not act like injuries only happen to one coaches' skaters. And she won a SILVER at 4CCs and World's. Those are achievements that few others have done.

Evgenia left Eteri after winning a silver medal at the OLYMPICS. Sasha left Eteri after winning a bronze medal at the GPFs and at Euros. Let's not act like that's a downfall.

If you're going to diminish people's accomplishments it's probably not a good idea to do so by talking about Olympic and World's medalists, one of whom achieved that after returning to Eteri. (You might have a better chance doing so if talking about someone like Polina but even she is a JGPF champion.)

for every word of this post.

Why diminish any of these skater's achievements? Anyone can have a bad skate and finish off the podium. And it is the measure of a champion how they respond to that and come back from it. For me, Alina's yearlong comeback from WC 2018 in Milan (5th place?) to WC 2019 in Saitama (Gold!), says everything. It wasn't a perfect road to get there, but she got there.

Like the road she had with her Black Swan program during the Olympic season. She struggled to skate it clean in competition almost all season long. Mistake after mistake happened. Then, when it counted the most, she broke a World record with it. Her performance of that program put her over the top for Olympic Gold. All those other mistake filled short programs were just steps in the road.

Yes she finished 6th (out of, arguably, the top 6 six best skaters in the world at that moment in time) at the GPF. And she suspended her career afterwards. But that is not the entire picture and to pretend like it is feels unjust to me.

What all of these ladies who reached the top have accomplished is amazing and deserves to be celebrated, not diminished.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

for every word of this post.

Why diminish any of these skater's achievements? Anyone can have a bad skate and finish off the podium. And it is the measure of a champion how they respond to that and come back from it. For me, Alina's yearlong comeback from WC 2018 in Milan (5th place?) to WC 2019 in Saitama (Gold!), says everything. It wasn't a perfect road to get there, but she got there.

Like the road she had with her Black Swan program during the Olympic season. She struggled to skate it clean in competition almost all season long. Mistake after mistake happened. Then, when it counted the most, she broke a World record with it. Her performance of that program put her over the top for Olympic Gold. All those other mistake filled short programs were just steps in the road.

Yes she finished 6th (out of, arguably, the top 6 six best skaters in the world at that moment in time) at the GPF. And she suspended her career afterwards. But that is not the entire picture and to pretend like it is feels unjust to me.

What all of these ladies who reached the top have accomplished is amazing and deserves to be celebrated, not diminished.

What's more is that Alina was never consistency queen anyways. Sure the GPF performance was definitely one of her worst ones, but just a few weeks before she had one of her best free skates at NHK and just the day before she had one of her best short programs. This pattern is seen in her 2016/17 season where she had a rough beginning to the season and came back with a World Junior title, same goes for 2017/18 where she couldn't pull together a clean SP until Euros, same goes for 2018/19 where she had a few rough competitions in the middle of the season but came back with a gold medal at Worlds.

 

[Scott512]

What's more is that Alina was never consistency queen anyways. Sure the GPF performance was definitely one of her worst ones, but just a few weeks before she had one of her best free skates at NHK and just the day before she had one of her best short programs. This pattern is seen in her 2016/17 season where she had a rough beginning to the season and came back with a World Junior title, same goes for 2017/18 where she couldn't pull together a clean SP until Euros, same goes for 2018/19 where she had a few rough competitions in the middle of the season but came back with a gold medal at Worlds.

Once she won worlds I think alina had 1 foot out the door. She earned everything she got.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Once she won worlds I think alina had 1 foot out the door. She earned everything she got.

Yeah I remember she spoke about how she kind of lost motivation since she had already won everything. It's totally understandable to me - I mean there is a life outside of figure skating after all. Of course it would be great if Alina collected like a medal at every GP or something like that (she's missing America and Canada from what I recall). But at the end of the day, she's doing want she wants to do and that's most important to me.

 

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Alina is the last champion of the pre-quad era. Anyone in her place would do the same after winning it all. She has not quit yet may be because of the contracts, may be because Eteri or someone convinced her to wait and see whether this quad era is going to stay or it was just a short burst by 2 kid-prodigies who would lose those quads as soon as puberty starts. Then all would turn to Alina and she would start preparing for her second Olympics. I think that the same logic has been true with Zhenya.

But as the time passed it is absolutely clear now that quadsters have come to stay. And Alina cannot compete with them under current system. Quadsters have made it impossible to see long-playing champions like Katarina, Irina or Michelle any more. Well, unless we see the first skater who can keep them well past puberty. Some people have issues with that - I don't. I am glad that there are new faces.

There is a meaningless discussion (for me) about the GOAT. It is meaningless because the sport has technically evolved - it is a different sport now. Anna, Sasha, Kamila would beat any of the former champions should they compete now. Including Alina.

 

[Scott512]

Yeah I remember she spoke about how she kind of lost motivation since she had already won everything. It's totally understandable to me - I mean there is a life outside of figure skating after all. Of course it would be great if Alina collected like a medal at every GP or something like that (she's missing America and Canada from what I recall). But at the end of the day, she's doing want she wants to do and that's most important to me.

Alina is experiencing that life you speak of.
She can do what she wants as far as I'm concerned if she wants to hang around training and then figuring out if she's going to come back or not that's fine.