2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Lechat]

Not that it matters, but Kamila's layout was a ridiculous decision imo. She just did her first 2 clean triple axels 2 weeks ago, and immediately Eteri says, "Not good enough - go do 2 more, a quad salchow for the first time, a quad toe-triple salchow for the first time, and a backloaded quad toe for the first time. Now!" Trying out an Olympic layout makes no sense. Even if she had gone clean, it would have no bearing on what she could do in 12 months from now, or even 6 months. Eteri flexing gone too far.

Maybe it’s Kamila herself who asked to put more difficulties. If she wants to compete with Sasha and Anna who have more difficult quads. 15 points for 4lutz and flip vs 9 points for the 4T and 4S.

Congrats to Maiia, she's not my favorite skater by any means but I was very impressed that she finally landed both quads in the same competition. Desperately needs a better program.

Yes she surprised us today finally Danny was right and Eteri was smiling like yesh we did it

Daria was my favorite of the night, I just find her skating lovely and would much rather watch her skate than most of the others.

yup I agree. She’s one of my favorite. She’s so elegant and graceful. She maybe not a big shot but she steals your heart

Elizaveta skated great,

She deserves her spot. she was the best senior of this competition.

Aliona was both better and worse than I was expecting.

Alena did her best today with her current situation, I’m glad she didn’t withdraw and decided to fight. This is what a champion has to do.

 

[Shayuki]

Best 14 year old girl until Akatieva comes along, who will be the best 14 year old until the one after her arrives.

Valieva is good, great even, in many ways. But people used to say the same about the 3A and look where we are now. Utterly outclassed after they were the “ultimate best, historic trio, greatest rivalry FS had ever seen“ just last year.

Yep, you're correct. But while currently it is an era of progress, eventually there won't be a better skater coming up. While Akatieva was known for a long time - even before Valieva entered juniors - currently there's no one of that level in a younger age group, at least for a while.

Akatieva and Valieva also are a little different because Valieva was known as a talented skater but wasn't really dominating left and right the way Akatieva has, Akatieva's just had amazing results for years and years and hasn't had a single weak season in ages. And next season we'll hopefully get to see how Akatieva looks in international juniors.

 

[Arbitrary]

Elizaveta Tuktamisheva will be in Sweden this March, I'm pretty sure.
The only question will she be there as Russian number 2 or number 3?

3/3/21 the FFKKR must decide.

 

[MaggieLin]

They wouldn't have done that layout if there was a World's or an Olympic spot on the line.

It actually was the PERFECT time to try it. You need to try things in competition and she had nothing to lose here. Even if she had fallen off the podium it STILL wouldn't have mattered. She's still more consistent than any of her challenges with a higher BV. She's already on the Russian senior national team and going to get 2 GP spots - which is all it would have mattered for anyone not in the running for a World's spot. Even if she fell on every jump imaginable that wouldn't change. It was an experiment in letting her have fun and try everything. Better try that where there is minimal pressure than try for the first time next year when she's a senior and there are World's spots on the line. It's like in their last year of juniors - Anna and Sasha didn't need to try their quads - and they fell ALL the time, especially Anna. They would have won without them and had a couple of disastrous skates because they did. But now both of them have quite stable 4Lzs. It's like Rika with her 3A, etc. Trying in competition is HOW you get your jumps stable - by performing them in front of judges with adrenaline and this is really the easiest time for Kamila to try.

Why do you think trying it out makes no sense? Now's as good a time as ever isn't it, in a meaningless competition. The next time she'll have this experience under her belt, and can make use of it. What if she had not tried it and had skated a safe program cleanly? Then she'd be trying this layout for the first time next season, most likely in some important competition like a senior GP event. Isn't it better to try now and have the entire summer to use the information to their advantage?

Fully agree with both. Anna and Sasha's quads took a lot of trying and failing to get to their stability at the moment. I always admire risk-taking skaters who stretch their potential to the fullest. On the other hand, I find Alena (not today but in the past) and even Rika a bit too conservative regarding upgrading technical content.

 

[halulupu]

Liza Berestovskaya is indeed the most charming and adorable skater in recent years. Everything about her reminds me incredibly of little Elena Radionova, playing fun and all kinds of characters in different programs. They catch your heart even if you know absolutely nothing about figure skating. You know they both love, love the sport from the bottom of their heart.

I wouldn't say Tarusina and Samodelkina are in the same type. Tarusina reminds me a bit of Frovlova, elegant but not memorable. Samodelkina is quite talented technically though I find her style of skating more...pensive/melancholicic (I don't know the word for it!)

Its called Davydovs signature 0 style. But seriously he is the only top coach with no choreographer at his side and its showing

 

[Lechat]

Elizaveta Tuktamisheva will be in Sweden this March, I'm pretty sure.
The only question will she be there as Russian number 2 or number 3?

3/3/21 the FFKKR must decide.

I think Sasha and Anna are locked this is why they didn’t compete. They have to focus for worlds.

 

[chasingneverland]

I wouldn't compare Kami here to Yuzu at Sochi. At Sochi like all the men flopped, it wasn't just Yuzu - he just happened to flop a tiny bit less. Kami here wasn't great obviously, but like Maiia was! So I honestly don't think it's that similar a situation.

Maybe something similar would be Anna at JGP Bratislava who won over Tarusina despite having a mistake on her experimental quad.

But yes, if Kami got 238 for these two performances, imagine what she would get if she was clean with 3A in SP and FS with 4S, 4T+1Eu+3S and 4T in the second half.

I don‘t think the judges doing whatever they want with the GOE and PCS has a lot to do with Maths lol. And can we please not compare this to Hanyu or even Sasha? Hanyu skated the best in a terrible field, how is that even close to what happened with Khromykh and Valieva today? And Trusova won against skaters without any ultra-c elements (and we can debate about the fairness of that all we want, but it‘s another discussion altogether). Not against someone who landed two clean quads. I don‘t particularly care who of the two won and I guess with Valieva’s SP advantage, there is a valid discussion to be made. She’s also clearly the better skater. But it‘s not like the judges didn‘t do their very best to prevent the chosen star from losing against Khromykh whose reputation is that of a very inconsistent skater...



She knows that there‘s no one else they could send and made the obvious conclusion. Good for her, she’s gutsy and gritty and it finally paid off.

That's why I looked at their base values and tech - even with downgraded and under-rotated quads Kamila is only about 2.5 points behind in BV in the FS. And why it's stupid to ignore the SP advantage Kamila has in the FS as people were trying to do in the Rus Cup Final thread. You can't ignore that. And Maiia doesn't have the tech to overcome the SP advantage. Anna does (even with 2 quads as hers are worth more and she has a 3Lo combo), if Kamila skated like she did today. And Sasha does too (depending on her layout), if she's clean as well. If both Anna and Sasha are clean or with minor mistakes, they have the tech to make up Kamila's SP advantage if she has a meltdown skate. Ignoring GOE and PCS, even with downgrades and underrotated jumps Kamila is still ahead in BV compared to Maiia. Also Kamila had -5 GOE on both 4S and 4T plus the 4T was downgraded. What else are you going to do to her scores? You can't argue GOE because they didn't give it to her. Plus the -2 for the falls. Plus she lost an entire combo because they didn't give her the 4T-eu-3S as that. They counted it as a SEQ and pretty much invalidated it. And she still was less than 3 points behind in BV. And they gave them almost the same PCS in the FS anyway so that takes away from the PCS argument. That's why ignoring the 3A lead in the short is soo silly. It took a 4Lz-3T, 4F, and 4Lz from Anna in the FS to erase it when it came from Alena. To have a chance at erasing it you need to have a BV at least in the 80s (and hope Kamila isn't clean), because Kamila will have around a 7 point lead from the SP (and more if you mess up your SP like Maiia did.) That's why it's basically math. Because PCS and GOE didn't save Kamila in the FS really. Her SP (and it's BV with a 3A) and overall BV did.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I've been trying to figure out my feelings about Nana, erm, Frolova. I think she particularly stands out amongst the other CSKA skaters. I suppose yes, her choreography is a little old fashioned and stolen from Carol Heiss' 1956 long program, but I don't think that's it. I love her presentation. But I think I understand the Grandma vibe I was getting from her. I think it might be due to her coloring (hair, skin, eyes) and her classic features. But on ice she fades out and we actually think we are seeing exactly what she will look like at 90! Right?!?!

I can understand the descriptors 'old-fashioned' and 'classic' but if Frolova looks like anybody did at 90 years of age it would be Galadriel, a.k.a. an elf in adolescence.

 

[chasingneverland]

Best 14 year old girl until Akatieva comes along, who will be the best 14 year old until the one after her arrives.

Valieva is good, great even, in many ways. But people used to say the same about the 3A and look where we are now. Utterly outclassed after they were the “ultimate best, historic trio, greatest rivalry FS had ever seen“ just last year.

No. Kamila is a more complete skater and was at 13 than Sofia is now. With the 3A each one had weaknesses as juniors. Aliona didn't have a ultra-c and had a questionable lutz edge, Anna needed to work on her skating skills (and her spins depending what age we're talking about) and wasn't as good at jumps as Sasha or as good at everything else as Aliona and also had a questionable lutz edge, and Sasha was only jumps and needed to work on her skating skills, spins, and artistry.

Kamila doesn't have any of those issues. (She has her own but they're scored differently as Kamila can pretty much get points both technically and artistically which none of the above could do completely.)

Kamila is better at 14 than they were. She was also better at 13 then they were at 14/15.

 

[yume]

Best 14 year old girl until Akatieva comes along, who will be the best 14 year old until the one after her arrives.

Valieva is good, great even, in many ways. But people used to say the same about the 3A and look where we are now. Utterly outclassed after they were the “ultimate best, historic trio, greatest rivalry FS had ever seen“ just last year.

Just two seasons apart. Two trios of 14-15yo beating a whole bunch of seniors.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL2DAxRpKz_/?igshid=lwaopn37tnfp

 

[Scott512]

I would say the best ever in history. It's the speed she uses across the ice and into the jumps. And then there is the extension.

Agreed.

But here's the key question can she become a little more consistent next season the Olympic season? Because KV will need to become more consistent. She's a bit up-and-down and Box mount Kilimanjaro high!

Anya seems very consistent especially for a quadster. Of course shes a couple years older than Kamila so she should be more consistent and mature.

 

[chasingneverland]

Yep, you're correct. But while currently it is an era of progress, eventually there won't be a better skater coming up. While Akatieva was known for a long time - even before Valieva entered juniors - currently there's no one of that level in a younger age group, at least for a while.

Akatieva and Valieva also are a little different because Valieva was known as a talented skater but wasn't really dominating left and right the way Akatieva has, Akatieva's just had amazing results for years and years and hasn't had a single weak season in ages. And next season we'll hopefully get to see how Akatieva looks in international juniors.

In what world wasn't Kamila dominating left and right? We've known about Kamila at least since she was 10 or 11.

 

[Scott512]

Not that it matters, but Kamila's layout was a ridiculous decision imo. She just did her first 2 clean triple axels 2 weeks ago, and immediately Eteri says, "Not good enough - go do 2 more, a quad salchow for the first time, a quad toe-triple salchow for the first time, and a backloaded quad toe for the first time. Now!" Trying out an Olympic layout makes no sense. Even if she had gone clean, it would have no bearing on what she could do in 12 months from now, or even 6 months. Eteri flexing gone too far.
Congrats to Maiia, she's not my favorite skater by any means but I was very impressed that she finally landed both quads in the same competition. Desperately needs a better program.
Daria was my favorite of the night, I just find her skating lovely and would much rather watch her skate than most of the others.
Elizaveta skated great, really earning the world spot and not just getting it because AK messed up. I hope she skates that well at Worlds - I'm not a huge fan of her skating but she was my second favorite program today.
Aliona was both better and worse than I was expecting. She jumped much better than I anticipated, the double salchow was really the only mistake though I wish she had gone for the triple. Idk anything about step sequences, I know a level 2 is bad but Idk why that's what she got. She was obviously extremely nervous, I mostly noticed how slow and expressionless she was skating. She has a long time now to recover and regroup, hopefully her luck (and the state of the world) improves, and she can be healthy and strong come next season.

We are not great coaches but I totally agree with you Dawn this was the wrong time to do this for KV especially since she was just starting to become somewhat consistent with her clawed and triple axel programs.

I guess EG wanted to play mad scientist and KV was OK with it.

 

[chasingneverland]

Just two seasons apart. Two trios of 14-15yo beating a whole bunch of seniors.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL2DAxRpKz_/?igshid=lwaopn37tnfp

The difference is that Anna and Sasha can still compete and outscore them - and didn't get their spots in spite of the age rule - both of them would likely be going even if there was no age restrictions. That wasn't the case when the 3A burst onto the scene as juniors. Also none of Kamila, Daria, and Maiia are 15 yet.

 

[chasingneverland]

Elizaveta Tuktamisheva will be in Sweden this March, I'm pretty sure.
The only question will she be there as Russian number 2 or number 3?

3/3/21 the FFKKR must decide.

Lol she'll be number 3 haha. She can't compete with Anna and Sasha in tech even if they skate watered down programs, as long as they're clean. And Liza isn't clean either. Also Anna and Sasha will have higher PCS.

 

[Shayuki]

In what world wasn't Kamila dominating left and right? We've known about Kamila at least since she was 10 or 11.

She had big struggles until 18-19.

I've known about Kamila since she was 7 years old, that wasn't the point.

 

[chasingneverland]

Fully agree with both. Anna and Sasha's quads took a lot of trying and failing to get to their stability at the moment. I always admire risk-taking skaters who stretch their potential to the fullest. On the other hand, I find Alena (not today but in the past) and even Rika a bit too conservative regarding upgrading technical content.

I mean even with falls Anna and Sasha could do it in practice. And Rika took a while to be able to get her 3A consistent in competition. It's not being conservative if you are struggling to get it consistent. As for Alena, if you can't do something in practice that's not being conservative. There's a difference between introducing a jump and struggling to get it consistent and just throwing jumps that you're not even doing in practice..

 

[Lechat]

Agreed.

But here's the key question can she become a little more consistent next season the Olympic season? Because KV will need to become more consistent. She's a bit up-and-down and Box mount Kilimanjaro high!

Anya seems very consistent especially for a quadster. Of course shes a couple years older than Kamila so she should be more consistent and mature.

well it´s not even her first season among the seniors and she did well, better than the 3A two years ago.

 

[chasingneverland]

She had big struggles until 18-19.

I've known about Kamila since she was 7 years old, that wasn't the point.

Also Sofia hasn't won everything she's entered either for that matter. And her 18-19 season is Sofia's 19-20 season.

 

[chasingneverland]

Agreed.

But here's the key question can she become a little more consistent next season the Olympic season? Because KV will need to become more consistent. She's a bit up-and-down and Box mount Kilimanjaro high!

Anya seems very consistent especially for a quadster. Of course shes a couple years older than Kamila so she should be more consistent and mature.

Right now she doesn't need her full layout. A 3A in the SP and a 3A, 4T-combo, 4T in the FS is more than enough.

And it's much better than what the 3A did at 14/15. It's arguably even better than what the 3A did as first year seniors.