2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

But what is Anna thinking when they're adding all these extras into KVs free skate? Anya has been the Phenom that has stayed there for 13 years. She is finally the number one girl after Sasha and aliona left. But Milla is coming.

I'm sure she's thinking the same thing she was thinking when Sasha and Alena were upgrading. Remember she trains with these girls and watched them grow up and grew up with them. I think Anna is thinking the same thing she always does - just keep getting better and do my best. That's all I can control. She's upgrading too keep in mind. And knew well before we did what Kamila can do. Remember they land these in practice well before they ever debut them.

 

[chasingneverland]

This will never happen. Like Eminem said about "one shot" there are not that many of those. And you cannot match the peak of your condition with those shots. It was always like this. I can't remember who it was but many years and even decades ago there was a case when Russian skaters won either Olympics or worlds with very high fever.

Yeah I know. There's a difference between not being at your best and being slightly injured/ill and having something being hazardous to your health though..

The fever isn't what anyone was concerned about really - at the core.

 

[Mathman]

Yeah, I do know how sports work. I don’t want unbeatable champions - as much as I‘m an Evgenia fan and thus biased, I can imagine that those two years of her domination were a very boring time for other FS fans.

For me, I could go either way. It's cool when a young challenger comes along to upset th apple cart. And it's equally cool whn the grizzled champion says, "Please, child," and slaps her down.

The only part that concerns me about figure skating is that we may be seeing a change in the sport where only a fourteen year old has the right kind of physique / loose tendons / muscle-weight ratio, etc., to do all the required tricks, and then they have to hope and pray that they can hold on at least until they are 15 before their skills deteriorate and thy are not comptitive any more.

 

[Skatesocs]

Not that it matters, but Kamila's layout was a ridiculous decision imo. She just did her first 2 clean triple axels 2 weeks ago, and immediately Eteri says, "Not good enough - go do 2 more, a quad salchow for the first time, a quad toe-triple salchow for the first time, and a backloaded quad toe for the first time. Now!"

I don't think it's a ridiculous decision in terms of trying a new jump since this comp was entirely pointless. However, I did say earlier on the thread it would be silly to put both the 3A and the 4S - two new jumps into the layout.

I also don't get why any of the quad girls is going for a 4+1+3. None of them have particularly good rhythm out of the quad with the +Eu+3S (Trusova's has been much improved this season, but not really good), and Valieva's +3S especially hasn't been good even out of triples. I hope they drop it and get the 3Lz+3Lo in. I don't think they're going to stop going for 3 quads + 3A, I think they know it's what Plushy will get Trusova to do next season by the Olympics AND it's a good way to start psyching them early on.

 

[Amei]

I would have preferred next season so she could work on all these other things in the offseason. Kamila didn't seem to mind a bit and she seemed to enjoy trying different things are harder program too. I don't I doubt they know what they're doing at TT.

But what is Anna thinking when they're adding all these extras into KVs free skate? Anya has been the Phenom that has stayed there for 13 years. She is finally the number one girl after Sasha and aliona left. But Milla is coming.

Shcherbakova has been at Sambo for the Lipnitskaia and Medvedeva divorces, and she saw that Eteri did not sacrifice Zagitova to see to it that Medvedeva had an easier road to Olympic gold. If she is half as smart as most people on this board talk about her, its unlikely she expects Eteri to sacrifice another skater for her chances, and I don't know if she necessarily was the "number 1 girl" this year, at Test skates there was already chatter about Valieva surpassing her as the favorite. She was with Eteri before Kostornaia and Trusova and she saw Eteri add to those girls' arsenal things that would allow them to beat her and she stayed with Eteri. The good thing for any of the girls training with Eteri is that they know what several of their competitors are going to be bringing to competition, so they can push themselves to match/exceed their competitors. All Eteri and her coaching staff can do regarding their girls is make sure each girl knows that the staff will do everything they can to help her be the best skater she can be to have a shot at gold but that doesn't mean 'sabotaging' or not helping another 1 of their skaters be the best skater that she can be; they have 4 girls actively training to get to the Olympics in all likelihood anywhere from 1-3 of them won't be at the Olympics.

 

[Jontor]

Hope someome gives Sophia a few hugs. She unfortunately is one of the sad stories coming out of today.

The happy go lucky, effervescent, and jovial Sophia has been snatched and in her place is a morose shell of the original.

Hope it turns around soon.

I might sound heartless here, but give me a break. That's the reality of sports. One day you're in, one day you're out. There is no point in sulking. You just have to keep fighting and don't give up. That's the spirit we see in Anna, Sasha, Liza, and that is the spirit of what sports is all about.

 

[Skatesocs]

The only part that concerns me about figure skating is that we may be seeing a change in the sport where only a fourteen year old has the right kind of physique / loose tendons / muscle-weight ratio, etc., to do all the required tricks, and then they have to hope and pray that they can hold on at least until they are 15 before their skills deteriorate and thy are not comptitive any more.

I think if they just fixed the tech calls, we can see it becoming better than it is. Though I must say I'll see what comes of Trsuova's tech improvements (but then again she is doing much harder content than anyone ever), and Zhilina (and in HER case, she's started 4Lzing at 12).

 

[Amei]

I don't think it's a ridiculous decision in terms of trying a new jump since this comp was entirely pointless. However, I did say earlier on the thread it would be silly to put both the 3A and the 4S - two new jumps into the layout.

I also don't get why any of the quad girls is going for a 4+1+3. None of them have particularly good rhythm out of the quad with the +Eu+3S (Trusova's has been much improved this season, but not really good), and Valieva's +3S especially hasn't been good even out of triples. I hope they drop it and get the 3Lz+3Lo in. I don't think they're going to stop going for 3 quads + 3A, I think they know it's what Plushy will get Trusova to do next season AND it's a good way to start psyching them early on.

she's been doing the triple axel for a good chunk of the season (she started competing it at the Cup stage in early December, I would imagine she was landing it in practice for at least a few weeks prior to that), at what point is it no longer characterized as "new jump" for her?

 

[Skatesocs]

she's been doing the triple axel for a good chuck of the season (she started competing it at the Cup stage in early December, I would imagine she was landing it in practice for at least a few weeks prior to that), at what point is it no longer characterized as "new jump" for her?

How is her first time landing it in comp at the Channel One trophy anything but new? And how is two-three months of competing it anything but new?

 

[chasingneverland]

Yeah, I do know how sports work. I don’t want unbeatable champions - as much as I‘m an Evgenia fan and thus biased, I can imagine that those two years of her domination were a very boring time for other FS fans. And that’s not the point either. Tell me any other discipline where 17 year olds are considered “veterans“ and “old“, where your life cycle at the top is at best 3 years. Your usage of the word ”forever“ is especially noteworthy and kind of hilarious there. Maybe rhythmic gymnastics? From what I‘ve seen, the system there is similar. But other than that?

And like I said, it‘s not about having a predetermined winner either. Long lasting rivalries, where anyone can get the gold on any given day, are excting and good for a sport. But what we‘re seeing now, isn‘t that. Instead, we‘re going through an ever changing crop of talented youngsters who have a year where they‘ll be the “best 14-15 year old ever and “game-changing, historic etc.“ until there‘s a new shiny kid on the block. I’ve not been a skating fan for long but in my time, we’ve already gone through four generations of Russian ladies. Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Zagitova, 3A. We‘re now at the end of the 3A cycle, beginning Valieva and co. Is that the essence of sport? Children fighting it out, until they’re replaced with even younger children, a few adults scattered in between? Maybe so.

And yes, I‘m bitter. The sport I fell in love with (was an Eteri skater, by the way, who made that happen) is changing and I, personally, do not like what I‘m seeing whatsoever. And for clarification: it‘s not about athletes being pushed out of the top, that‘s normal, that‘s natural. It’s about the time line. It’s also not about 15 year olds competing and winning - this has always happened. But it is about 15 being the default peak age, with everyone older having to fight their very hardest to even have a shot. For me, it‘s not progress, I don‘t find it normal. Everyone has their own definition, though, I realise that there are others who like these changes. And my bitterness will only last so long as to I let go of the rest of my emotional attachment and find a sport/discipline better suited to my tastes. Or miraculously fall back in love with it again. Sasha, at the very least, seems to be intent on staying for at least two Olympic cycles. Maybe she can do it. Let‘s see.

Gymnastics in general - not just rhythmic. 15/16 is peak in gymnastics too and and it's only the age rule that keeps it that high - the best are actually younger but too young to be seniors. Diving and swimming tend to be pretty young too. Basically anything that is improved by light fast bodies, where rotation is key. And a fast rotation is hindered by puberty/growth as that changes both your centre of gravity and aerodynamics.

Also women in general peak younger than men anyway.

Also perhaps you forget a 14 year old Tara Lipinski. Who also retired ASAP. Yes, Michelle continued but I think that's because she DIDN'T win. And the harder the sport becomes the harder it is to maintain that level of difficulty especially as age, injures, and etc keep playing a role. And it'll continue to do so as long as technical content keeps rising.

Ice dance tends to peak later but that's because they don't rely on quick, fast rotation. There maturity plays more of a role and tends to be more rewarded but that's a different scoring system and no one needs to do 4 revolutions in the air. (In fact they're not allowed to revolutions through the air haha.) There are different elements and bullet points that are looked for there - lifts, spins, step sequences, twizzles, etc - not spinning quickly through the air. Also because it's dance choreography, performance, etc play a bigger role as does just overall packaging - costumes, music, etc. And you can maintain that for longer because it's a different strain on your body and peak older because maturity brings an added benefit to your dance and performance.

 

[chasingneverland]

Shcherbakova has been at Sambo for the Lipnitskaia and Medvedeva divorces, and she saw that Eteri did not sacrifice Zagitova to see to it that Medvedeva had an easier road to Olympic gold. If she is half as smart as most people on this board talk about her, its unlikely she expects Eteri to sacrifice another skater for her chances, and I don't know if she necessarily was the "number 1 girl" this year, at Test skates there was already chatter about Valieva surpassing her as the favorite. She was with Eteri before Kostornaia and Trusova and she saw Eteri add to those girls' arsenal things that would allow them to beat her and she stayed with Eteri. The good thing for any of the girls training with Eteri is that they know what several of their competitors are going to be bringing to competition, so they can push themselves to match/exceed their competitors. All Eteri and her coaching staff can do regarding their girls is make sure each girl knows that the staff will do everything they can to help her be the best skater she can be to have a shot at gold but that doesn't mean 'sabotaging' or not helping another 1 of their skaters be the best skater that she can be; they have 4 girls actively training to get to the Olympics in all likelihood anywhere from 1-3 of them won't be at the Olympics.

Yeah, that's why I don't think her outlook has changed.

I think she's much more upset she got sick and couldn't bring her 3 quad program back and train upgrades as early as she wanted then concerned about what everyone else is doing.

 

[chasingneverland]

I might sound heartless here, but give me a break. That's the reality of sports. One day you're in, one day you're out. There is no point in sulking. You just have to keep fighting and don't give up. That's the spirit we see in Anna, Sasha, Liza, and that is the spirit of what sports is all about.

Sofia IS still fighting and skating.

 

[alexocfp]

I might sound heartless here, but give me a break. That's the reality of sports. One day you're in, one day you're out. There is no point in sulking. You just have to keep fighting and don't give up. That's the spirit we see in Anna, Sasha, Liza, and that is the spirit of what sports is all about.

Of course, nobody is saying she should be given a spot or that past results mean anything.

But it’s still sad to see her decline like this. For me at least. I hope she turns it around and keeps fighting as well.

 

[Skater Boy]

Aliona is, unfortunately, out of the picture due to the "smart" decisions she has made for her skating career. Reading the comments here, I'm assuming a lot of people haven't watched Aliona's skating during the first half of the season, that's why they think her having been sick with COVID is the source of the problems. But really, looking at how she's been handling herself during the past year (I mean after GPF 2019), I've observed a lot of similarities between her and Sasha Cohen. So I'm not surprised to see her skating career is taking the same direction as Cohen.

However, Anna and Sasha are still in the conversation and can't be easily overtaken by Daria and Maiia. I'm quite optimistic regarding the longevity of this generation, specially Sasha. She has good technique on her jumps and Plushenko actually hit the nail on the head by bringing Morosov into their team. I think he's gonna help Sasha improve her artistic side as well.

Can you explain how Aliona has trained or approached skating differently. Some of us are interested but have no idea what is going on.

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't think it's a ridiculous decision in terms of trying a new jump since this comp was entirely pointless. However, I did say earlier on the thread it would be silly to put both the 3A and the 4S - two new jumps into the layout.

I also don't get why any of the quad girls is going for a 4+1+3. None of them have particularly good rhythm out of the quad with the +Eu+3S (Trusova's has been much improved this season, but not really good), and Valieva's +3S especially hasn't been good even out of triples. I hope they drop it and get the 3Lz+3Lo in. I don't think they're going to stop going for 3 quads + 3A, I think they know it's what Plushy will get Trusova to do next season by the Olympics AND it's a good way to start psyching them early on.

The thing is it wasn't just adding a 4S to the layout. They also changed the 4T-2T to a 4T-eu-3S and backloaded another 4T. She's NEVER even attempted any of that in comp before. And she's only just stabilized the 4T this season and only landed the 3A cleanly in both programs in one comp. In fact she's only attempted the 3A in the FS one time before. (Although she did hit it.)

Her 3A does look quite stable especially for being so new so I get trying everything for fun at a meaningless competition here though. This isn't a Sasha at Rostelecom Cup situation. For one thing Sasha was injured before and Kamila is healthy and didn't fall riskily. She landed mostly on her butt each time. For another thing Sasha had several competitions after with increasing importance such as RusNats and World's. For Kamila it's the last skate of her season.

But finally, it's probably the only time they could risk her falling/making giant mistakes 3 times in one FS and not have it adversely affect anything. It's probably the last time she can fall twice and have an invalidated COMBO and still be smiling after because there was nothing at stake and at least she tried. It's also probably the last time she can do that and still win a competition. (Unless maybe maybe some GP comps early in the season next year depending on whose there.) But it's the last time she can try something like that - besides test skates and have it not affect her at all! So why not?

 

[chasingneverland]

she's been doing the triple axel for a good chunk of the season (she started competing it at the Cup stage in early December, I would imagine she was landing it in practice for at least a few weeks prior to that), at what point is it no longer characterized as "new jump" for her?

When you've only landed it cleanly at one competition this season..and that was a relatively for fun competition..it's still new. She's only tried it at 3 competitions before and only once before in the FS.

 

[chasingneverland]

Sasha was a very talented skater, had all the potentials to become the best of bests. But unfortunately her decisions, her mindset, her doubts and fears prevented her from accomplishing what she was capable of. I was an avid Sasha fan and following her career was a sad and disappointing journey. Now I'm seeing the same patterns with Aliona.

I think it's silly to think that Sasha of all people no longer has that potential. She's going to World's and has the largest technical arsenal out of everyone - including Anna, Kamila, Rika, etc.

She's the ONLY senior skater to have actually IMPROVED this season - everyone else has at best regained their skills from last year. All of her jumps are better this year and she's more consistent this year than last.

Also as we've seen by EVERYONE who's attempted quads/3As - they're hard! Even when you are consistent in practice. It's almost like most skaters can't do them and several top World class skaters struggle with rotating triples.

 

[Decoder]

I think it's silly to think that Sasha of all people no longer has that potential. She's going to World's and has the largest technical arsenal out of everyone - including Anna, Kamila, Rika, etc.

She's the ONLY senior skater to have actually IMPROVED this season - everyone else has at best regained their skills from last year. All of her jumps are better this year and she's more consistent this year than last.

Also as we've seen by EVERYONE who's attempted quads/3As - they're hard! Even when you are consistent in practice. It's almost like most skaters can't do them and several top World class skaters struggle with rotating triples.

Haha, another Sasha: Sasha Cohen

 

[Fluture]

I might sound heartless here, but give me a break. That's the reality of sports. One day you're in, one day you're out. There is no point in sulking. You just have to keep fighting and don't give up. That's the spirit we see in Anna, Sasha, Liza, and that is the spirit of what sports is all about.

What‘s with the obsession of making it seem like these girls aren‘t fighting or giving up when they‘re having emotional up and downs? Sofia‘s still there, isn‘t she? Still competing, still fighting. Even her own mother asked her whether retirement might not be the better option after 2018-19 when she realised her chances would go down. Sofia decided to stay and she‘s doing her very best.

Also, she apparently waited for 15 minutes for Liza to finish skating, already in tears of joy for her. At RusNats, she cheered on Gulyakova and Liza, direct competitors. She’s definitely not sulking.

Gymnastics in general - not just rhythmic. 15/16 is peak in gymnastics too and and it's only the age rule that keeps it that high - the best are actually younger but too young to be seniors. Diving and swimming tend to be pretty young too.

Also perhaps you forget a 14 year old Tara Lipinski. Who also retired ASAP.

Artistic gymnastics? I don‘t know a lot about the sport but a quick Wikipedia check and a calculator tell me that the average age of the winning US team in 2016 was 19.4 years. Russia won Silver - 18.8. And uneven bars and balance beam - the two events Biles didn‘t win - were won by Mustafina and Wevers, 21 and 25 respectively. Am I missing something?

Also, swimming didn‘t seem to be dominated by 16 year olds in 2016 either - again, according to Wikipedia - on the contrary, the majority of the winners seemed to be closer to 20 than 16.

Diving had one 15 year old champion, the rest were over 20. Again, what am I missing? (and please tell me if I do, like I said, my knowledge is entirely based on Wikipedia here)

And no, I’m not ”forgetting Lipinski“, I even addressed this in my post. My issue is not with 15 year olds competing and winning, too, it‘s about this being the default stage, as is happening now. You‘re expected to peak at 15 and someone like Akatieva‘s already considered unlucky because she‘ll be trying to qualify for the Olympics at the ancient age of 18. I have no problem with a 15 year old becoming a Champion a la Lipinski, Zagitova etc. Even if they retire afterwards, it‘s their life, their choice. As long as this isn‘t the only way you can win - by being born at a certain time, only for then to be replaced at the top afterwards immediately. And for me personally, it looks like skating is heading into this direction. The sport is becoming younger and younger. Checked the 2015-16 “State of Russian Ladies“ for reference today. A post there:

“I think realistically she is not making team 2018. In Bejing she will be 22 - the prime age.“

Would anyone in their right mind say something like this today? Not really, would they? And remember, this was 6 years ago. Where will we be another few years down the road? Will 10 year olds be the cream of the crop and everybody else after their peak?

Maybe I’m exaggerating. But it‘s not a development I support. Though again: Others may and that‘s perfectly valid.

I think it's silly to think that Sasha of all people no longer has that potential.

They‘re talking about Sasha Cohen, who, afaik, has been retired for a few years lol.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, Samodurova

It's hard to put the finger on what the deal is with her. She looks like a million bucks and she has charisma. What's missing? I know you're going to say the ultra jumps. since she won Europeans she's had a hard time hitting 200 and it makes no sense.