2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Fantik]

I'm sort of pissed off about the probation like shes a criminal. I am happy she is back when the lady I think you nicknamed Queen Tut. So what are the easons? To get her ahead of Dasha and Maya and sasha for the Olympic team? Work to keep her away from other Moscow based coaches who could help this girl get her back into good form during the Olympic season? which would pose a real threat do a couple of the EG girls.

So if after 2 months Aliona doesn't cut the mustard they're going to let her go to cska Davydov or snow leopards or Mishin? I'm sure any one of these coaches would love to have AK going into the Olympic season. I was pumped that alyona is back with TT then I saw the interview about the probation. She can't miss any more days and we all know the girl is not feeling well. But I'm willing to wait and see how it goes and see if she can fit back into TT have that fast paced training they do.

I believe there is one true reason for setting probationary terms for Aliona - 3A. Either Davidov or Mishin could probably helped her with the 3A. Reputation for being high maintenance would not have deterred the two stern gentlemen

 

[Shayuki]

The only way this madness will EVER end is if a bunch of things happen at once. Like, if a few skaters literally faint from exhaustion and hunger during a competition and the camera catches them worried about water weight.Or if a renowned Russian ballet choreographer criticises Daniil. Or if the girls are caught purging. Or if the judges are caught on camera discussing how to ensure a Sambo 70 win.
If only one of these happens it's not enough to take down the system. A lot has to happen at the same time, with evidence.

I also am not sure why people make such a big deal of weight control in sports. Are you familiar with how it works in sports with weight classes, say boxing? Or even a more extreme example, olympic weightlifting?

And, you believe that exhausting skaters is the optimal way to make them able to skate 4-minute explosive programs with multiple quads?

 

[Scott512]

I believe there is one true reason for setting probationary terms for Aliona - 3A. Either Davidov or Mishin could probably helped her with the 3A. Reputation for being high maintenance would not have deterred the two stern gentlemen

Very true Fantik. Male coaches don't get flustered at all by their female skaters that may be up-and-down sometimes.

My point was there were other options besides returning to TT. No doubt the pressure is on alyona. But if she can't deliver there or if she can't survive the to month probation. Then she has other options inside and outside of Russia.

 

[Scott512]

I don't think being the number 1 skater actually works for Aliona. She needs someone to kick her butt.

Also, no. I don't think she would have long line of coaches reaching out - as they would probably be asked to pay her AoP fee. And no one would want to do that. Aliona's just not worth the risk.

Yulia also has other duties, including to her own baby, that isn't coddling a senior skater. And you never know - she may have asked to work with children.

Nobody's paying anything to PA because plushy himself declared publicly in the summer that he would cover all expenses. Alyona and I are holding him to that.

You don't think Davydov or Mishin or Borser would want AK?

We do agree on how alyona does need a coach to push her which is a more politicly correct way to say kick her butt as you put it. .

 

[Scott512]

First point: I'm not sure how you get Kostornaia to be #6 or #7 in team tutberidze, but #1 for Davydov. Samodelkina has 3A and multiple quads, so Kostornaia should at least be #2 there. If Kostornaia was #1 in spite of that, then she'd be higher than #6 or #7 for Eteri.

"I'm also tired of people saying how gracious EG is for taking AK back like she's a homeless girl off the streets or something. Lol. The most beautiful skater in the world would have a long list of coaches reaching out to her if she did not go back to TT and EG."

Tired of it because you know it's true? I don't think I'd have taken her back, she first left rudely in the summer(And Eteri's allegations from that time were all but confirmed during this week) and now is doing the same thing within a season. It would not be surprising at all to me even if Eteri didn't take her back.

A long list of coaches reaching out to her? Yeah, I'm sure there would be. But I'm not sure what that has to do with Eteri taking her back. And I doubt she'd care a whole lot for other coaches anyway.

Samo is almost 4 years younger than Aliona. I mean Alions would be the number one senior lady there. Then in a year and half Davydov would have Alena, Samodelkina and Frolova as senior ladies. Then hes on to something.
He can teach the ultra jumps.

Why are you surprised I have AK at 6 at TT at this moment? Anna KV Maya Dasha and maybe second daughter Zhenya are ahead of her now. But I'll be more positive and AK can move up possibly and ahead of everybody at TT except for Anna and KV before nationals in December if she finds her form and can stay healthy.

Oh and it was also a strategic move to bring Kosto back. This keeps her away from the professor or CSKA sergei where Aliona could come back and hurt TT by taking an Olympic spot if she skates well. Smart move by EG and TT to bring her back with restrictions and probation. Very smart. If Alena finds her form EG gets the credit.

 

[chasingneverland]

Nobody's paying anything to PA because plushy himself declared publicly in the summer that he would cover all expenses. Alyona and I are holding him to that.

You don't think Davydov or Mishin or Borser would want AK?

We do agree on how alyona does need a coach to push her which is a more politicly correct way to say kick her butt as you put it. .

I don't think Plushy cares or knows who you are haha.

Also, that's a verbal statement and has the inherent condition of I'll pay for everything while you're a student at my academy. She's not there anymore. And we don't even know what the contracts entailed. They might have been outside his scope as a coach.

No, I don't think Mishin or Borser would want Aliona at all.
Mishin wouldn't because he already has Liza T (who will be in direct competition with Aliona and to whom he is very devoted too), Sofia S, and Anastasia G (both of whom he is also invested in). (He also has Mikhail, Evgeni, etc with the former especially pushing for a men's Olympics spot and likely the leader for that team.) (There is also the question of Mishin's allegiance to Plushy - would he want to take Aliona for that reason, even if he did have the time and didn't have prior commitments? I don't think so.)
Borser especially wouldn't want Aliona because he doesn't want to get mixed in with the Russian skating drama ever again. Aliona would be the epitome of skating drama. It would be even worse than Evgenia because Evgenia had a stronger appeal, had fans that would follow her anywhere, and already had an incredible resume. (Really the only thing Evgenia was missing when she came to him was an OGM. And she had a silver.) Aliona doesn't have any of that, plus it's an Olympic year. (Evgenia left 3 years before the Olympics in an experimental year where she had the time to experiment with changing technique, etc - that wouldn't be the case with Aliona. Neither the RusFed nor Aliona would be patient like they were with Evgenia.) Not to mention, Aliona couldn't afford it anyway (if she can't afford AoP's costs she definitely can't afford Borser's) nor does she have a strong enough grasp of the English language. (Evgenia was able to supplement the difference in excess of the Russian national team stripend with shows, sponsorships, etc - Aliona doesn't have that pull.) Brian Orser wouldn't do it for free (nor should he) nor will he accept a student he can't converse with. Plus it would have to be online until COVID restrictions ease and Aliona has already proven that's not how she learns best. No, I don't think Borser would touch her with a 10 foot pole.

Davydov might but he doesn't have the pior coaches influence or experience.

And while yes, Aliona needs a coach to push her. She also needs the external "kick in the butt" from her direct competitors pushing her to improve. She needs the scare of being left behind.

 

[macy]

He also apparently (allegedly) lost Parsegova.

I’m sure he still has other students, like Sviridenko and so on.

Btw, I think I found Nadya on IG

https://instagram.com/loveforfigureskating

Holy crap

 

[Baron Vladimir]

And on my third day, i finally end up on the last page of this thread
You have been really inspired this time

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I'm confused about what this means. Why would a Russian ballet choreographer care about Figure Skating?

Nikolay Tsiskaridze, who is not officially a ballet choreographer but who did choreograph or adapt ballet fragments for Vaganova Academy (the feeding school for Mariinsky Ballet and more and more for Bolshoi Ballet, the two main Russian ballets), of which he's the director, was about 15 years ago a judge in child skating TV contests, and I think it did give back some visibility to Russian figure skating (he's still a judge at The Blue Bird contest, where there is sometimes some figure skating). He was the star Bolshoi principal, had all possible titles (often the younger ever), was the first invited dancer at the Paris Opera since Nureyev era (didn't wish to dance anywhere else abroad, though he participated in Kings of Dance), I think he's the GOAT of ballet.
I "rediscovered" figure skating in 2017 lurking at a Russian Tsiskaridze fan forum, which had some threads about (Russian) figure skating.
I believe he appreciates more Daniil Gleichengauz' work, and his balletic references too, than some people here, of course he might give some hints should he be asked too, but certainly no more : for a ballet dancer figure skating is really forbidden, because of the risks of injury, so I bet he's never ever skated himself, though I think he's somewhow friend with Alexei Mishin, and took from hom the idea of the spin practice wheel.
Where I think he could help greatly, is in costumes. Alina Zagitova's Olympic tutus were a great, simple idea but they cannot be repeated all the time. When he sets up a new ballet, he takes what he can in the school collection and also in the Mariinsky one (they kindly lend their stock to the school when the ballet is not on stage of course), but he also has new costumes made and he has more than a hand in their creation. I think he is the sole creator (and for some, maker) of the crowns here, but of course they would be too heavy for figure skating, here they give ballet dancer a useful experience of what it takes to dance with something big and heavy on the head, and it shows ballet recruiters this capacity too. A funny Hamlet-like scene, like "My kingdom for a needle!" :

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

and a longer extract to see the costumes :

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Of course appearance on a skating rink is not the same as on a theatre stage, yet "he has an eye" and a mind of a creator.

 

[macy]

I will say that I feel a sense of relief since she returned to Eteri. She had so much success with them and they literally turned her into a diamond in just a few months when she first came in 2017. I dont think there is any other coaching team who can take her back to that level other than the ones who have already done it.

 

[Skatesocs]

Nikolay Tsiskaridze, who is not officially a ballet choreographer but who did choreograph or adapt ballet fragments for Vaganova Academy (the feeding school for Mariinsky Ballet and more and more for Bolshoi Ballet, the two main Russian ballets), of which he's the director, was about 15 years ago a judge in child skating TV contests, and I think it did give back some visibility to Russian figure skating (he's still a judge at The Blue Bird contest, where there is sometimes some figure skating). He was the star Bolshoi principal, had all possible titles (often the younger ever), was the first invited dancer at the Paris Opera since Nureyev era (didn't wish to dance anywhere else abroad, though he participated in Kings of Dance), I think he's the GOAT of ballet.
I "rediscovered" figure skating in 2017 lurking at a Russian Tsiskaridze fan forum, which had some threads about (Russian) figure skating.
I believe he appreciates more Daniil Gleichengauz' work, and his balletic references too, than some people here, of course he might give some hints should he be asked too, but certainly no more : for a ballet dancer figure skating is really forbidden, because of the risks of injury, so I bet he's never ever skated himself, though I think he's somewhow friend with Alexei Mishin, and took from hom the idea of the spin practice wheel.
Where I think he could help greatly, is in costumes. Alina Zagitova's Olympic tutus were a great, simple idea but they cannot be repeated all the time. When he sets up a new ballet, he takes what he can in the school collection and also in the Mariinsky one (they kindly lend their stock to the school when the ballet is not on stage of course), but he also has new costumes made and he has more than a hand in their creation. I think he is the sole creator (and for some, maker) of the crowns here, but of course they would be too heavy for figure skating, here they give ballet dancer a useful experience of what it takes to dance with something big and heavy on the head, and it shows ballet recruiters this capacity too. A funny Hamlet-like scene, like "My kingdom for a needle!" :

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

and a longer extract to see the costumes :

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Of course appearance on a skating rink is not the same as on a theatre stage, yet "he has an eye" and a mind of a creator.

OK. But he won't hold skating to the standards of ballet. A renowned ballet choreographer won't suddenly criticize skating by holding it to the standards of their renowned works. Why would they? They are well aware it's a sport. So in my books he won't really care about what Daniil did or didn't do. What you say in fact promotes my idea in that case. If he were to hold skating to whatever standards he was producing in the Bolshoi, he'd roundly criticize everyone and everything, it's just not up to par. Most dancers don't really care all that much about skating to watch it, and/or don't hold it to their standards...

 

[yume]

Classics are always on point:

What is that?

 

[Skatesocs]

What is that?

Godfather.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

OK. But he won't hold skating to the standards of ballet. A renowned ballet choreographer won't suddenly criticize skating by holding it to the standards of their renowned works. Why would they? They are well aware it's a sport. So in my books he won't really care about what Daniil did or didn't do. What you say in fact promotes my idea in that case. If he were to hold skating to whatever standards he was producing in the Bolshoi, he'd roundly criticize everyone and everything, it's just not up to par. Most dancers don't really care all that much about skating to watch it, and/or don't hold it to their standards...

You're right, most ballet choreographers mustn't be very interested in figure skating.
And Nikolay Tsiskaridze, though never secretive about his opinions, wouldn't interfere with figure skating, knowing well he's not a professional of the field. He doesn't scorn figure skating (and I believe he holds Yuzuru Hanyu as the creator of a style of dance on par with great ballet choreographers), ballet is also very demanding physically (link to the ballet class exam of his own pupils in this same year 2019), he probably understands nearly all the movements and their causes/objects in figure skating, but he knows for instance that the usual ballet has variations lasting about 1min, that a figure skating program is much longer, which requires a particular management of stamina (he's the creator and to this date, the only dancer of the part of Herman in Roland Petit's Pique Dame, basically on stage during the 57' of the ballet and dancing most of the time, as well as of the latter's 15' Carmen Solo), and that he would have to learn things to become a figure skating choreographer. I don't think this is his next project. ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVieKK1AH4w
Behind-the-scenes :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zgJmaADY8
Pique Dame (Queen of Spades) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmTcCp-q1-8
Carmen Solo :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTrsCcgFZLo

 

[Skatesocs]

And Nikolay Tsiskaridze, though never secretive about his opinions, wouldn't interfere with figure skating, knowing well he's not a professional of the field.

I'm not talking about anyone "interfering" with skating, sorry.

I'll leave it there.

 

[snowflake]

Good for Kostornaya to be back in the Tutberidze team again. She learnt that her coach switch was a mistake and went back. Didn’t Orser say that it took time for Medvedeva to adjust to a more self-sufficient coaching? If Aliona needs to be pushed so be it. No drama for me. I hope Plushenko is exaggerating her health problems though. All the best to Alena.

In her dreams I think Alena would love to train in USA or Canada. But probably she doesn’t have the money. And no one to go there with her (like Medvedeva had her mother).

 

[lopsilceci]

What is that?

This scene from The Godfather (around 3:45)

 

[Dawn825]

Also, FWIW, Adeliya seemed quite demoralized and unhappy as Eteri scolded her after her FS at the Russian Cup Junior Final. (I thought Eteri was being a bit harsh, too.)

Nothing helps like someone screaming at you to smile I'd be very surprised if anyone left Eteri's anytime soon after this mess with Aliona. On the other hand, I am constantly surprised by what goes on over there so maybe she'll be by out next week.

AOP is more like an American program, where it is up to the athlete to work hard and succeed. At team Eteri you either work hard within the constructs of their program or get out.

From what we hear, Sasha has no problem motivating herself, and would train 24 hours a day if she could.

I honestly think it might just push Kostornaia to be in contention for the Olympics again with the conditions Eteri set her. But yeah I think the girl should see a sports psychologist...

I think every top athlete should see a sports psychologist, especially ones that are also teenagers. But it might depend more on ALiona's body than how hard she's willing to work. Evgenia probably really wanted to compete this year and was simply physically unable to because of injury. If Aliona has similar sorts of chronic injuries (as is often the case with backs), there might not be anything she or Eteri can do.

First point: I'm not sure how you get Kostornaia to be #6 or #7 in team tutberidze, but #1 for Davydov. Samodelkina has 3A and multiple quads, so Kostornaia should at least be #2 there. If Kostornaia was #1 in spite of that, then she'd be higher than #6 or #7 for Eteri.

Not that this would ever happen but theoretically Aliona would be Davydov's only senior with a chance at the Olympics. She'd be one of 5-7 Olympic eligible girls at TT, and probably the coaches' least favorite at this point.

The only way this madness will EVER end is if a bunch of things happen at once. Like, if a few skaters literally faint from exhaustion and hunger during a competition and the camera catches them worried about water weight.Or if a renowned Russian ballet choreographer criticises Daniil. Or if the girls are caught purging. Or if the judges are caught on camera discussing how to ensure a Sambo 70 win.
If only one of these happens it's not enough to take down the system. A lot has to happen at the same time, with evidence.

Not sure why people responded to this with the laughing emoji... Making fun of Daniil's choreography I get - of eating disorders in young girls, not so much.

 

[chasingneverland]

Not sure why people responded to this with the laughing emoji... Making fun of Daniil's choreography I get - of eating disorders in young girls, not so much.

We laughed at how incredibly stupid the comment was. Or at least I did. Not in agreement more in derision.

 

[nussnacker]

Nothing helps like someone screaming at you to smile

Is that what you consider screaming? Her volume was so low that despite microphones being very good, it was really hard to pick up what she was even saying. Identifiable, but not super clear.

She didn’t even talk to Adelia about smiling, that was Sofia A. Wasn’t that just.... a feedback to a skater about their performance?