Ladies Short Program (will there be another judging fiasco?) | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Ladies Short Program (will there be another judging fiasco?)

Yu Na's PCS were only a little more than half a point more than Mao's at SC. IMO Mao's SP was pretty much disasterous for her usual standards - underrotated loop, falling out of it with hands down, flutz and trip in SLSS plus zero presentation after the error. Yu Na only popped a jump and sold it to the max.

Some parts of the program (Yu Na's ) I liked such as the steps into triple lutz which were lovely, but I thought it was a bit old fashioned overall. There was nothing new here which I was expecting quite frankly. However I'm sure all these new programs will look much better when they're clean and have more mileage.

I do wish she would work on her turnout to improve the line on her inside edge spirals though. Just a bugbear of mine as a dance teacher ;)


Interesting. What you call old fashioned, I consider to be pre-CoP....this is the kind of program you'd see under 6.0...not Cop..thought it works for both. I liked it...maybe because it reminded me of pre-CoP
 
I agree about the layback...I was terrible. I understand that some prefer to do a layback where the hip-knee-foot is NOT turned out (as compared to when it is - Sasha) but it's terribly ugly. I've *heard* it's harder but in my personal experience, it's not - its harder to have a nice turnout so when you can't position the free-leg correctly, this is an acceptable alternative. Kwan did it and it was ugly then and it's still ugly now.

I also did NOT like her catch-foot spin at the end. My feeling is either to a traditional Y spin like Kwan or pull it up so its a complete split like Sasha. I don't like the in-between.

As far as her pacing to the waltz - she was off in some cases and I wasn't b/c of the music. I think she fundamentally did not understand the beat of a waltz. Joe is correct, its One, two, three. One, two, three. Yu-Na didn't have it most of the time and when she did, I think it was more fluke than anything.

However, I did like her program and it had some nice spots. I think she can really work on that layback and learn the beat. The waltz is the easiest of the beats to master. I haven't seen Kostner this year to compare and will need to look at Mao to compare again. I will say I much prefer Kim to Zhang.

Can I ask why you perfer her over Zhang?:)
 
One interesting thing to wonder is if Zhang can win the silver here, I am assuming Kim still has pretty close to a lock on the gold despite the short program results with Kostner and Zhang fighting for silver, would that give her enough points for the GP final?
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mao popped her loop jump too. One thing is though that the sound of the clip I gave you was two seconds off...So I don't know if that could have made a difference.

I think there are some parts of the program that are really pretty and she skates to it very pretty. But I also am shocked that Orser and Wilson didn't at least have her taking some walzing lessons, before they had her do this program. Worlds is in Europe, how will the Europeans take the waltz being not done well? Besides, I think it might be tough for an Asian skater who hasn't really done ballet to get the waltz unless she's taught it. I still like the program though because it is pretty.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mao popped her loop jump too. One thing is though that the sound of the clip I gave you was two seconds off...So I don't know if that could have made a difference.

I think there are some parts of the program that are really pretty and she skates to it very pretty. But I also am shocked that Orser and Wilson didn't at least have her taking some walzing lessons, before they had her do this program. Worlds is in Europe, how will the Europeans take the waltz being not done well? Besides, I think it might be tough for an Asian skater who hasn't really done ballet to get the waltz unless she's taught it. I still like the program though because it is pretty.

Oh, so she actually completed on time? That means that look I just can't help loving is after the end. Do you know where we can find a clip that's not off? and other skaters'?
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mao popped her loop jump too. One thing is though that the sound of the clip I gave you was two seconds off...So I don't know if that could have made a difference.

At Worlds yes - at SC she did triple loop but was off axis and underrotated hence the downgrade plus major - GOE because she fell out of it onto both hands to stay up.
 
I said this before but with the way Mao and Yu-Na look at the moment, and the PCS of Meissner comparing favorably to both so far, should Kimmie now perhaps be considered more strongly as a stronger candidate for that World title?
 
Can I ask why you perfer her over Zhang?:)

Sure!

1. I can't really adequately compare technique at this point since I would need to study the two more, but I do clearly remember that Zhang has some serious technical issues. Her jumps are under rotated and she often pre-rotates. She also has some edge issues on the Lutz/flip. I would have to study Kim's performances to see if she has similar problems but based on what I just saw (Kim's CoC SP and Zhang's SA SP) I didn't come away with this feeling she (Kim) cheated her jumps or had edge problems – at least to the degree Zhang does. Again, I would really have to sit and look at replays to be more confident about this. My opinion here is based on casual observances of two programs.

2. I prefer Kim's body type to Zhang. Long limbs, neck, torso ect. This may simply be a function of age. I'm not sure what the ages of the two girls are...Zhang is what 14 and Kim is 17? A growth-spurt on Zhang's part could change all this.

3. I feel Kim controls her limbs better than Zhang - with exception to her spiral and layback. Zhang wins hands-down on the spiral and layback. Kim just seems more graceful.

4. There is something slightly more authentic/organic about Kim's skating compared to Zhang. I'm not sure how to articulate it....Yes, Zhang has a gift that is well developed for her age but is doesn't seem organic to me. Almost like when you watch warm-ups and practices (at home or comp) you see folks skate in a relaxed setting and see how clumsy and un-artistic they can be.

I should note, I don’t know these two girls and haven’t watched them at their home rinks but I have a “gut” feeling…my “gut feeling” is what I base the following on. When I use the word “organic” I mean to say that when you watch a skater in their natural state – home rink, regular practice ect. How they carry themselves in terms of polish and finishing elements in an organic setting tells me a lot about how much their artistry is natural and how much is leaned/put on for competition. For instance, when they come out of a spin, do they fully extend the free leg and finish it nicely?. When they do a jump do they hold a nice strong free-leg with a deep, controlled edge?. When stroking do they pump there arms and legs or is it graceful and controlled? If they do all these things, is it only when they are at a competition or is it when it’s just them and the ice? In an honest, organic moment, I think this tells you a lot about the skater. My previous training tells me that those that finish elements, skate with grace when it’s just them and the ice, have some kind of innate understanding. I value this more than the skater who just puts partial effort into it when practicing but polishes it up for competition. I sense that when the spotlight is not on Zhang, she doesn't always skate with the same ease she does when performing. I feel Kim does.

I'm not sure I articulated this very well...sorry. I may change my mind about this later - I would really have to sit and compare these two - edging, flow, jump technique ect. But based on what I've seen, Kim is better.
 
I said this before but with the way Mao and Yu-Na look at the moment, and the PCS of Meissner comparing favorably to both so far, should Kimmie now perhaps be considered more strongly as a stronger candidate for that World title?

Meissner's PCS were nice for the short, but they weren't as favorable for the long I don't know. I hope though that if this program doesn't go over well that Yu-na will go back to her Tango program...But I like this program, and I also think it's kind of hard to tell with PCS because well there are different judges judging. Caroline's PCS were lower from Skate America too. Maybe these judges are just pickier.
 
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Meissner's PCS were nice for the short, but they weren't as favorable for the long I don't know. I hope though that if this program doesn't go over well that Yu-na will go back to her Tango program...But I like this program, and I also think it's kind of hard to tell with PCS because well there are different judges judging. Caroline's PCS are down too.

Meissner's PCS in the long at Skate America, were almost exactly the same as Asada in the long at Skate Canada IIRC, and Meissner had a worse performance in the long at Skate America as Asada in the long at Skate Canada. Granted you are right that there are different judges judging per event. It is still interesting to notice early on Meissner comparing more favorably to the Asians in PCS then she did at Worlds last year. I am not saying I think Kimmie is likely to win Worlds this year, but maybe she is a stronger candidate then alot of us thought, then again maybe not.
 
Meissner's PCS in the long at Skate America, were almost exactly the same as Asada in the long at Skate Canada IIRC, and Meissner had a worse performance in the long at Skate America as Asada in the long at Skate Canada. Granted you are right that there are different judges judging per event. It is still interesting to notice early on Meissner comparing more favorably to the Asians in PCS then she did at Worlds last year. I am not saying I think Kimmie is likely to win Worlds this year, but maybe she is a stronger candidate then alot of us thought, then again maybe not.

True, Mao's were about a half a point higher. But , I also think that with different judges judging, it's really hard to factor those things in.. For example, Caroline got a point lower on PCS I believe at Cup of China...Now, it seems like her skating was slower, but was it that much worse? I think that you don't really know until you see the judges compare skaters against each other. Someone said that they think judges use PCS as placement markers, and I think well there's some truth to that theory. While I like Meissner's program. Overall I dont think she can compete with the grace and flow of Mao or Yu-na. (I also think they are better jumpers than Meissner too, when they are on at least).
 
Interesting results. I never would have guessed Zhang to be above Yuna. And Kostner in first...nah, didn't see that. But what I especially didn't see coming was Suguri so far off the mark.

But then, I'm talking the end result here. Maybe wild results will be the norm now in the SP with the revised Cop. But there's still the FS to go. Yuna has the edge. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Kostner because I don't recall her being a very good freeskater.
 
Oh, so she actually completed on time? That means that look I just can't help loving is after the end. Do you know where we can find a clip that's not off? and other skaters'?

Yes, Yu-Na completed the program on time.
The author of the video had difficulties uploading the program.
The music was 2 second ahead of actual performance.

According to people who saw the program live, Yu-Na hit every bit of the music
like usual.

And for the Expression you and I are dying for after the program was indeed...
ANGRY EXPRESSION for her jump mistake. I LOVED IT. Absolutely !!!
 
My thoughts:

Congrats to Zhang for an amazing placement at her second senior GP ever! And, Congrats to Alissa. Still in the race, I think she can fight back to a podium finish. =]

Yu-Na has what it takes, and that's been shown. Its not a question of how or if, it's a question of will.

Remember, we can't win with a short but can certainly lose with one!
 
I said this before but with the way Mao and Yu-Na look at the moment, and the PCS of Meissner comparing favorably to both so far, should Kimmie now perhaps be considered more strongly as a stronger candidate for that World title?

I never like to count Kimmie out. Never. She definitely seems to be better conditioned than both of them right now but it's a long year & it's not like Mao & Yu-Na have had a disastrous season thus far.

I'm hoping for an ultra-hyped, clash of the titans Worlds! :)
 
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I never like to count Kimmie out. Never. She definitely seems to be better conditioned than both of them right now but it's a long year & it's not like Mao & Yu-Na have had a disastrous season thus far.

I'm hoping for an ultra-hyped, clash of the titans Worlds! :)

I agree and from what I have seen so far this season it will be Kimmie, Mao and YuNa duking it out at Worlds.
 
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