2021 Worlds: Ladies FS "Thoughts and Observations"

[ali0125]

No offense taken. Since I agree with the above. Her Majesty has the right attitude. Haha

For me, it’s a sport first, so results matter more than anything. Every thing else after that is a bonus. If you can get gold with a great skate that‘s the absolute best case scenario.

But, the competition is why I am drawn to this.

Sometimes in sports you win because you are less bad than your opponents. Like in this case.

Sometimes you win by outperforming the competition. Like at Russian Nationals.

As long as by whatever means necessary doesn’t involve out and out fixing that is. That is probably the only line I will draw.

Earning medals doesn't equal to earning respects. Eteri and her fans don't need that either anyways

 

[moonvine]

My take from this Worlds is how totally uninspiring the ladies were in comparison with the men! So many men had superbly interpretive skates with so much relationship to their music. I didn’t see any ladies who truly skated to the music. Where are the Jason Browns, Yuzuru Hanyus, Kevin Amoses, Michail Kolyadas in the ladies??? I felt completely flat after the ladies free. One of the most disappointing events for many years.

I’ve said this repeatedly, but in my opinion there is beyond too much emphasis on jumps in the ladies event in particular. The Jason Browns, Yuzuru Hanyus, etc have all retired before they were able to develop interpretation and relationship to music. Only jumps are important. Things like step sequences and spins are not worth enough points to bother with. A lady doesn’t even have to land the jumps, apparently. Just attempt them. I’m waiting for these ladies to just not bother with lesser elements and just go out and skate around and do their jumps. Ladies figure skating is almost unwatchable for me now.

 

[moonvine]

My main oberservation is related to the PCS mess you stated:
I just looked up Mikutina’s protocols and it was no surprise to me that her PCS scores are interesting. It seems that judges have a hard time scoring the PCS of a skater they do not really know.

In the SP, they ranked Mikutina between 12th and 30th(!) place, and in the Free Skate between 5th and 15th.
For the Free Skate that is a range from 57.20 to 67.60, while for most other skaters that difference between the judges is no more then 5 or 6 points.

Out of the top 10, only Trusova has a score gap this wide (judges gave her between 61 and 71 PCS), however, Trusova is the opposite example that shows what happens if you do have an international reputation. Only 1 or 2 judges dared to score her in the mid 7s on most PCS categories, while more judges were willing to rank her in the mid to high 8s.

I’m not saying the placements should have been different or who would have deserved what PCS score, just wanted to give 2 examples for why I think PCS are a mess.

I wonder if it would be useful to institute what they do in NCAA gymnastics- if scores are too far apart they have to stop and conference and discuss until they can agree on something closer.

 

[moonvine]

Don’t have to agree at all. Some people didn’t agree when Bayern won the champions league either.

I prefer to have the medal rather than the internet post disagreeing with my medal, all day, every day.

And again, this is why nobody deep down wants the judging system to change. Controversy equals cash. Haha

I believe a lot of people “deep down” want the judging system to change. Ladies figure skating is the worst and most boring discipline of them all for me. It’s very very very broken.

 

[Skatesocs]

I believe a lot of people “deep down” want the judging system to change. Ladies figure skating is the worst and most boring discipline of them all for me. It’s very very very broken.

I really don't know what the point of you saying this is... If you look at the thread, it's people who are convinced they know you better than you do. So "no one wants the system to change", or "you like making disgusting comments about skaters" etc. No point discussing, I'd say.

 

[moonvine]

Serious question. Why do people follow a sport where they just belittle the winners and slander the judges when results don’t go their way?

You think If my favorites didn‘t get good scores I would be complaining for a week straight?

Nobody on earth would have been happier if Kaori got a medal in this event. But I’m not going to bury the judges to make myself feel better.

And I’m sorry, but if you can do better than these judges, go and become a ISU judge so you can get scrutized in the same way and then called incompetant and bought off without evidence.

Well. I hope I haven’t belittled or slandered anyone. I follow the ladies less than any other discipline, and the way jumps are over rewarded (in my opinion) leads to boring skating (in my opinion) and I don’t like to be bored. It isn’t just because the American ladies aren’t winning International medals- neither are the US pairs and I love pairs.

 

[moonvine]

Sasha wants a long career and - despite what the usual suspects say - has worked hard on her artistry. She has received from certain fans and the judges themselves no credit whatsoever for this. The message was clear "Stick to what you do best, jumping machine." She goes and does just that because contrary to popular belief she and her coaching team aren't complete idiots.

And then those exact same fans who scoffed and sneered at her working on her artistry scream bloody murder and drag her through the mud. The claim they're not attacking her, just the judges, but come on, they call her skating empty, sloppy and offensive. That anyone with half a brain would see how crap her skate was, seeing as she happily accepted a medal despite this, the inference is that obviously SHE doesn't care.. She'll steal the medal from worthy skaters. Hate her! Mock her! She's destroying figure skating!

This is the exact same crap that leds to Adelina Sotnikova being sent death threats and called the most horrific names because she dared win against Yuna Kim - who could do no wrong.

If you call them on it, they'll be like "Oh that wasn't me! I just said the judges were crooked." Yeah but do the judges get the hate and the death threats? Do these people call out this disgusting behaviour when these so-called "bad fans" descend on Adelina's personal Instagram seven years after the fact and call her a "cheater" and a "whore" on her holiday or birthday posts or whatever? Hell no! I think they secretly enjoy it, because not only did Adelina not live up to their "magical standard" of what a skater is she beat their "Queen", she deserves every damn thing she gets.

That is just awful. What kind of person would act like that?????????

 

[alexocfp]

I believe a lot of people “deep down” want the judging system to change. Ladies figure skating is the worst and most boring discipline of them all for me. It’s very very very broken.

The 3 best skaters won the medals at the last event. So it works.

I’ve said this repeatedly, but in my opinion there is beyond too much emphasis on jumps in the ladies event in particular. The Jason Browns, Yuzuru Hanyus, etc have all retired before they were able to develop interpretation and relationship to music. Only jumps are important. Things like step sequences and spins are not worth enough points to bother with. A lady doesn’t even have to land the jumps, apparently. Just attempt them. I’m waiting for these ladies to just not bother with lesser elements and just go out and skate around and do their jumps. Ladies figure skating is almost unwatchable for me now.

Me too, stop bothering with the lesser elements.

And yeah, just attempting them should be rewarded.

If I am given a math problem 1+1=, and someone is given a calculus 3 equation and told to solve it with no other aids but a pen and paper, it does not make me a better mathematician since I was able to get 100 on my easy question while the calculus solver made more mistakes with a harder problem.

Landing 3 out of 5 quads should score more that someone attempting and landing all the easier jumps.

 

[moonvine]

I've been watching the sport for almost three decades, since I was a child, and I still can't say that I care about flawless technique. I watch the sport to be entertained and wowed. I'm not even sure the average layperson would know what flawless technique is. My mom who is more of a casual fan will usually only call out a lack of grace.

I don’t think my 81 year old mother can tell the difference between a double and triple jump. She wants to see skating she thinks is pretty. She also doesn’t really want to watch more than what NBC shows either.

 

[alexocfp]

Well. I hope I haven’t belittled or slandered anyone. I follow the ladies less than any other discipline, and the way jumps are over rewarded (in my opinion) leads to boring skating (in my opinion) and I don’t like to be bored. It isn’t just because the American ladies aren’t winning International medals- neither are the US pairs and I love pairs.

I have no rebuttal. You don’t like it so you don’t watch. I respect this.

 

[moonvine]

The 3 best skaters won the medals at the last event. So it works.

Me too, stop bothering with the lesser elements.

And yeah, just attempting them should be rewarded.

If I am given a math problem 1+1=, and someone is given a calculus 3 equation and told to solve it with no other aids but a pen and paper, it does not make me a better mathematician since I was able to get 100 on my easy question while the calculus solver made more mistakes with a harder problem.

Landing 3 out of 5 quads should score more that someone attempting and landing all the easier jumps.

All in your opinion. Which of course you are entitled to but mine is different. It’s ok, there are 3 other disciplines left for me to follow.

 

[alexocfp]

All in your opinion. Which of course you are entitled to but mine is different. It’s ok, there are 3 other disciplines left for me to follow.

The scoring system is place is not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Sasha landing only a few quads destroyed almost everyone in TES.

Sasha‘s FP TES score, with not even a 100% landing rate, ranks 6th or 7th among THE MEN at the WC. Think about that for a second.

 

[moonvine]

The scoring system is place is not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Sasha landing only a few quads destroyed almost everyone in TES.

Sasha‘s TES score, with not even a 100% landing rate, ranks 6th or 7th among THE MEN at the WC. Think about that for a second.

I was referring to your assertion that the 3 best skaters won medals. The 3 best jumpers won medals.

 

[alexocfp]

I was referring to your assertion that the 3 best skaters won medals. The 3 best jumpers won medals.

The best skates are the ones who score the most points. How else do we measure who the best is?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Landing 3 out of 5 quads should score more that someone attempting and landing all the easier jumps.

Trusova did not land 3 Quads. Her 4Toe attempt was landed forwards and fumbled out of, into a bad combo. That whole combo deserves no more points than 1 good triple on its own.

So, what she essentially did in her LP was 2 quads, 4 triples, and a double axel. Still impressive solely on technical merit, but the program was very empty. Whether you like it or not, figure skating is supposed to be about performance and artistry too. She failed on that part.

 

[chasingneverland]

The scoring system is place is not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Sasha landing only a few quads destroyed almost everyone in TES.

Sasha‘s FP TES score, with not even a 100% landing rate, ranks 6th or 7th among THE MEN at the WC. Think about that for a second.

I mean Anna's FP TES with only attempting a single quad and falling on it ranks 11th..

I'm not sure that's a good metric as they are scored differently.

 

[alexocfp]

I mean Anna's FP TES with only attempting a single quad and falling on it ranks 11th..

I'm not sure that's a good metric as they are scored differently.

It just shows how she managed to make up the gap from 12th.

I find it amazing that the females will soon enough be better jumpers than the men. The Channel One Trophy jump contest was just a taste of things to come.

Maybe the next gen Russian juniors need to start competing with men. Haha

 

[chasingneverland]

It just shows how she managed to make up the gap from 12th.

I find it amazing that the females will soon enough be better jumpers than the men. The Channel One Trophy jump contest was just a taste of things to come.

Maybe the next gen Russian juniors need to start competing with men. Haha

She managed to make up the gap because others faltered.

She actually would have done better if she had only done two quads. And the ladies aren't better jumpers.

 

[Amei]

It just shows how she managed to make up the gap from 12th.

I find it amazing that the females will soon enough be better jumpers than the men. The Channel One Trophy jump contest was just a taste of things to come.

Maybe the next gen Russian juniors need to start competing with men. Haha

I don't think that's necessarily a 'taste of things to come' - as lovingly as it can be said the Russian men aren't exactly known for standing up well under pressure. Additionally when they announced the section of 5 jump combinations I think we all knew it was setup for the women to win, how often do we see the guys practicing 4-5 jump combinations, not very often; the women, we see it with decent regularity.

 

[alexocfp]

I don't think that's necessarily a 'taste of things to come' - as lovingly as it can be said the Russian men aren't exactly known for standing up well under pressure. Additionally when they announced the section of 5 jump combinations I think we all knew it was setup for the women to win, how often do we see the guys practicing 4-5 jump combinations, not very often; the women, we see it with decent regularity.

The ladies being lighter and more flexible is an advantage in the combos. That‘s why those 5 jump combos looked effortless. And that’s why the ladies can practice and do them with regularity.

Sasha‘s Lz-T combo was the highest scoring jump in the FS. There are 8 and 10 year olds predominantly learning quads. Give them a few years.

Unless the scoring system changes and quads aren’t the weapon they are now.

I am predicting that, if the PCS are factored the same as the men and the ladies don‘t have the SP handcuffs they do now, in the next generation, the ladies will be able to medal at men’s events.

Just give Eteri the time and space to make it happen. Haha