Is Kimmie Meissner underrated?

[R.D.]

Too soon to tell the impact Kimmie will have. Of course, if she were to bolt now, that said impact would be negligible. But if she has staying power, you just never know.

Also too soon to tell how Cohen will be remembered. She just retired a year or so ago. We need to wait 10 years at the minimum. The only givens here would be Kwan and Slutskaya. I could think of a couple other names, but I wish to keep the arguments to a minimum...

 

[slutskayafan21]

Slutskayafan, World title or not, Kimmie Meissner is a blip in the history of skating. Sasha Cohen will be remembered as one of the most gifted and talented skaters to ever hit the ice, and this is from a Michelle fan. By the way, take a look at all the World Skating Champs through the 20th century and see how many actually had an impact on figure skating in general (if you can even remember all of them). Most of them were forgettable. Sasha is unforgettable.

So we already know a skater who has a World title already, and has only recently turned 18, is a blip on the radar screen? That is a bold statement, especialy given their is every chance of her winning a 2nd or 3rd World title at some point. She certainly has many more years as a possible contender. Would you still say she was a blip if she managed to win again.

How will Sasha be remembered? Ask that question in another 10 years, even another 5 years. Given that there are many extremely beautiful skaters in the same vein as her, especialy in the United States (Kwan, Hamill, Fleming, Heiss, etc...), but who unlike her actually have big titles to their name as well, I wouldnt be at all surprised to see her name fade into obscurity altogether. It isnt like she has had a Janet Lynn extreme impact on the sport, so much that it transcends all titles (and even Janet won a large number of U.S titles, and people realize she won the free skating title of the World many times over and only lost due to the compulsory figures).

Regardless how they are remembered though I would sure be happier having the World gold medal in my case at home at only 18, and the future all in front of me, then be pretty much done with the sport and have the frusteration of having been a top level contender for so long who always messed up in the clutch and never won the big one.

 

[Eddie Lee]

Kimmie is overrated, big time. World Championship notwithstanding. Most people deny Sarah Hughes' impact on skating and she won the Olympic gold. And her record during the years she skated overshadows Kimmies' considerably. I believe this year is Kimmie's last chance to win the big ones. There are enough U. S. ladies waiting in the wings, one of which could beat her this year!!!

 

[slutskayafan21]

Also too soon to tell how Cohen will be remembered. She just retired a year or so ago. We need to wait 10 years at the minimum. The only givens here would be Kwan and Slutskaya. I could think of a couple other names, but I wish to keep the arguments to a minimum...

Right now most I have talked to remember her as a very beautiful and talented skater who was potentialy capable of winning every Olympic, World, or U.S gold from 2002-2006, but always was a slip or two away in the end, and settled instead for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place, while the real champions like Slutskaya, Kwan, even Arakawa, showed how it was done by doing the perfect clutch performance Sasha could never muster when it mattered most. That is pretty much how I think of her at the moment too. Mostly good memories, but somewhat of a dissapointment as well, not just a total champion point blank like Kwan or Slutskaya. If that is how she is remembered now, I doubt it will be more favorable 10 years from now. Past Champions dont tend to be more glorified with age, only the true icons even remain the same with the passage of time (Hamill, Kwan, Fleming, Witt).

 

[museksk8r]

Kimmie is by no means a "blip" in the history of figure skating. Already a world champion who had a clean LP with a 3Lutz+3toe and a 3flip+3toe, she will be known as the best US skater who kept the USFSA afloat from 2007 to 2009. Her gutsy competitive spirit and difficulty will keep her remembered. Without her, the USA would have no hope of having 3 spots for the 2008 world team and I'll go out on a limb and say the same for the 2009 world team. She's the best hope for a world medal at this point for USA. Time is still on her side.

Sasha will be remembered as a much hyped skater known for her flexibility and for not being able to fulfill her potential. She's a more successful version of Nicole Bobek. She has one national title in Kwan's absence and no major international titles. The closest one would be the 2003 Grand Prix Final Champ, but titles like that are never listed in sports records books. When I think of Sasha, I always think of silver.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Kimmie is by no means a "blip" in the history of figure skating. Already a world champion who had a clean LP with a 3Lutz+3toe and a 3flip+3toe, she will be known as the best US skater who kept the USFSA afloat from 2007 to 2009. Her gutsy competitive spirit and difficulty will keep her remembered. Without her, the USA would have no hope of having 3 spots for the 2008 world team and I'll go out on a limb and say the same for the 2009 world team. She's the best hope for a world medal at this point for USA. Time is still on her side.

Sasha will be remembered as a much hyped skater known for her flexibility and for not being able to fulfill her potential. She's a more successful version of Nicole Bobek. She has one national title in Kwan's absence and no major international titles. The closest one would be the 2003 Grand Prix Final Champ, but titles like that are never listed in sports records books. When I think of Sasha, I always think of silver.

Extremely well said. When I think of Sasha I think of Dick Button or some other pivotal figure in the booth mouthing in a same old same old line of "oh that was so beautiful, except for that slip just there, and maybe there also, which is going to cost her the gold medal (again)." at yet another U.S, World, or Olympic event, many of those she is leading after the short program to boot.

 

[museksk8r]

Kimmie is overrated, big time. World Championship notwithstanding. Most people deny Sarah Hughes' impact on skating and she won the Olympic gold. And her record during the years she skated overshadows Kimmies' considerably. I believe this year is Kimmie's last chance to win the big ones. There are enough U. S. ladies waiting in the wings, one of which could beat her this year!!!

I don't understand how Sarah's record overshadows Kimmie's "considerably." Keep in mind that Kimmie's 1st major senior international was the 2006 Olympics and the judges had no time at all to be accustomed to her skating and she had virtually no senior international experience. Sarah's 1st major senior international was the 1999 Worlds, so she had 3 full seasons of experience prior to her Olympic victory, which is her only major international win. Kimmie also currently has only one major international win. Kimmie has already beaten Sarah's record at the World Championships. I'd definitely say a 1st and a 4th place at Worlds trumps a 7th, 5th, 3rd, and 6th. To be fair, you should at least wait until after the 2010 Olympics to compare the two seeing as Sarah had more time on the international scene prior to her Olympics. Also, Kimmie has a National title, a prize Sarah was never able to achieve and Kimmie's 3+3 combinations were of a higher degree of difficulty than Sarah's. Those are the facts.

 

[JPierce]

Also too soon to tell how Cohen will be remembered. She just retired a year or so ago.

She didn't retire. She is going to be back starting in 08/09. Hope you're ready...

 

[slutskayafan21]

She didn't retire. She is going to be back starting in 08/09. Hope you're ready...

The only I have is the idea that she would really would ever come back. In fact all these "rumoured" comebacks of Plushenko, Yagudin, Cohen, whoever else will all amount to absolutely nothing in the end I bet.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

The only I have is the idea that she would really would ever come back. In fact all these "rumoured" comebacks of Plushenko, Yagudin, Cohen, whoever else will all amount to absolutely nothing in the end I bet.

I know....It's gotta be so hard to go back to the kind of training regiment that Olympians do after having had a "life" lol! I can't imagine having to get up at 5am every morning!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm not sure what is meant by 'over rated'? What would 'rated' be like?

Facts: She holds a World Championship, and is presently rated 4th in the world. So many skaters (need I say who?) who do not hold a World's gold medal! and where oh where are they rated in the world today? Many of them quite good skaters. How does one rate? I believe the answer is in Opinions

Many posters have a favorite skater and at the same time have another who is unbearable for reasons only that person knows.

Since I believe there are skaters who are entertaining and skaters who are competitive, I think Kimmie fits into my latter befliefs.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Kimmie (so far) versus Sarah and Sasha:

Kimmie:

2007 Skate America
2007 Four Continents
2007 U.S. Nationals
2006 Worlds

Sarah:

2002 Olympics
2001 Skate Canada
1999 Vienna Cup

Sasha:

2006 U.S. Nationals
2003 Trophee Lalique
2003 Skate Canada
2003 Grand Prix Final
2002 Trophee Lalique
2002 Skate Canada
2001 Finlandia Trophy

 

[kandidy]

Kimmie (so far) versus Sarah and Sasha:

Kimmie:

2007 Skate America
2007 Four Continents
2007 U.S. Nationals
2006 Worlds

Sarah:

2002 Olympics
2001 Skate Canada
1999 Vienna Cup

Sasha:

2006 U.S. Nationals
2003 Trophee Lalique
2003 Skate Canada
2003 Grand Prix Final
2002 Trophee Lalique
2002 Skate Canada
2001 Finlandia Trophy

Thnks for your data!What would you like to indicate? Maybe it can say something, but different time and places, especially sarah and kimmie never compete against each other, we can not say that who is better. Maybe I misunderstood your objective.

 

[kandidy]

Kimmie is by no means a "blip" in the history of figure skating. Already a world champion who had a clean LP with a 3Lutz+3toe and a 3flip+3toe, she will be known as the best US skater who kept the USFSA afloat from 2007 to 2009. Her gutsy competitive spirit and difficulty will keep her remembered. Without her, the USA would have no hope of having 3 spots for the 2008 world team and I'll go out on a limb and say the same for the 2009 world team. She's the best hope for a world medal at this point for USA. Time is still on her side.

Sasha will be remembered as a much hyped skater known for her flexibility and for not being able to fulfill her potential. She's a more successful version of Nicole Bobek. She has one national title in Kwan's absence and no major international titles. The closest one would be the 2003 Grand Prix Final Champ, but titles like that are never listed in sports records books. When I think of Sasha, I always think of silver.

That was quite harsh to say, if you count the number of her gold and silver medals, you may realize that she also got gold medals as much as her silvers, just that her "gold" were not in the "most" important event in figure skate. My English is not good, I don"t know how to articulate well enough to explain my opinion. Sometimes you just can't help the mistakes you did. Now I think it was good for her that she did not give up many years even she was lost to Kwan years and years back then.
Sasha displays her strong in artistry and unique and well centered spins, edges, lines and spirals. I like her skating even with the flaws in her program, I still enjoy her skating even I watched the vdo for many times. Some people remember her as "loser" or "second best", I always remember her as "the most beautiful figure skater ".

 

[museksk8r]

That was quite harsh to say, if you count the number of her gold and silver medals, you may realize that she also got gold medals as much as her silvers, just that her "gold" were not in the "most" important event in figure skate. My English is not good, I don"t know how to articulate well enough to explain my opinion. Sometimes you just can't help the mistakes you did. Now I think it was good for her that she did not give up many years even she was lost to Kwan years and years back then.
Sasha displays her strong in artistry and unique and well centered spins, edges, lines and spirals. I like her skating even with the flaws in her program, I still enjoy her skating even I watched the vdo for many times. Some people remember her as "loser" or "second best", I always remember her as "the most beautiful figure skater ".

How is what I posted "harsh" to say when everything I stated was based on facts and my OPINION. Your opinion is no more valid than my opinion. I did not post as a troll and call skaters names or be mean to anyone.

 

[Mathman]

Thnks for your data!What would you like to indicate? Maybe it can say something, but different time and places, especially sarah and kimmie never compete against each other, we can not say that who is better. Maybe I misunderstood your objective.

I don't really have an objective. But the question came up on this thread about whether Kimmie was underrated or overrated compared to Sarah and Sasha, so I was curious enough to look up their records.

Having done so, what stands out to me is the brevity of the lime light. For Sarah, setting aside the 1999 Vienna Cup, she won two senior skating contests, both in the 2001-2002 season. That's it.

Sasha won five Grand Prix events over two seasons, 2001-2003. That's it.

Kimmie has won three international events in the last two years. Now everyone is talking about Mao and Yu-na, not to mention Caroline and Mirai, as if Kimmie's reign is over. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I don't really have an objective. But the question came up on this thread about whether Kimmie was underrated or overrated compared to Sarah and Sasha, so I was curious enough to look up their records.

Having done so, what stands out to me is the brevity of the lime light. For Sarah, setting aside the 1999 Vienna Cup, she won two senior skating contests, both in the 2001-2002 season. That's it.

Sasha won five Grand Prix events over two seasons, 2001-2003. That's it.

Kimmie has won three international events in the last two years. Now everyone is talking about Mao and Yu-na, not to mention Caroline and Mirai, as if Kimmie's reign is over. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

This is an excellent point... espcially in light of the comparison of Caroline and Mirai... Both, while excellent junior skaters, simply do not have bodies of work that makes the assumption of the next greatest generation quite premature... We simply do not know enough to make that case. Caroline is lovely to watch and has some success on the Gp circuit, but that doesn't make her great - only great in potential. Mirai isn't even on the senior circuit yet...

And the truth of the matter is that this sport has a way of chewing up these prodigies and spitting them out... Jenny Kirk, Ann Patrice and BeBe are three examples that quickly come to mind... HUGE early potential and then nothing. I remember when AP was crowned as Kwan's successor before she even hit the senior stage and she's not even skating... Another example is NNN... injuries sidelined what in my opinion was the most awesome debut at senior nationals EVER... it made even Kwan's and Cohen's debuts pail in comparision... she simply lit up the joint... and then nothing.

And while we're making comparisions... I remember when Miki was the crowned too early because she hit the quad at junior worlds (I could be wrong about the actual competition...) and then Mao... who is awesome and I'm becoming a fan, but she doesn't have a complete set of triples and when that axel is off (which might be a sign that she, like Kimmie, might be losing it...) she's off and Kim has what appears to be serious back concerns.

Whereas Kimmie is plugging along and winning medals.

Hmmm... sometimes fan logic is questionable, but saying that Kimmie isn't a true longterm contender for the 2008 World title and podium spot in 2010 a bit of a stretch... regardless of whether you root for her or not.

 

[R.D.]

Kimmie (so far) versus Sarah and Sasha:

Kimmie:

2007 Skate America
2007 Four Continents
2007 U.S. Nationals
2006 Worlds

Sarah:

2002 Olympics
2001 Skate Canada
1999 Vienna Cup

Sasha:

2006 U.S. Nationals
2003 Trophee Lalique
2003 Skate Canada
2003 Grand Prix Final
2002 Trophee Lalique
2002 Skate Canada
2001 Finlandia Trophy

Here's the list re-done so it shows only significant titles.

Kimmie:

2006 Worlds
2007 Nationals

Sarah:

2002 Olys

Cohen:

2006 Nationals

Some folks might also categorize the GPF as a major win; I don't, but if you do, you can add it under Cohen's name


I say Meissner's doing just fine in terms of medals and titles. After all, she has 2 of the 3 Big Ones at 18, plus an Olympic trip so she's accomplished quite a bit, actually. I see that can get lost in a lot of the criticism that her skating gets, but she does get the job done. Whether that was just a "interim period" as far as US skating goes, and someone's waiting in the wings to dethrone her soon, is yet to be determined. But even if she walks away today, she's still accomplished more than countless skaters who have been on the scene for much longer.

 

[Mathman]

Some folks might also categorize the GPF as a major win; I don't, but if you do, you can add it under Cohen's name.

I definitely consider even the individual Grand Prix events to be "major."

To win U.S. Nationals last year, Kimmie had to beat Hughes and Czisny. But to win Skate America last month she had to beat Miki Ando (as well as Hughes and Zhang).

To win Eric Bompard this weekend she will have to beat Mao Asada. If she makes it to the GP finals, she wll likely have to beat Asada AND Yu-na Kim AND Ando in order to win.

Compared to that, winning her second U.S. Nationals title in January ought to be a cakewalk.

 

[R.D.]

Well...I get the feeling folks are only going to look at the National/European/World/Olympic medals in the long run. GP events, maybe, maybe not so much.

It's not so much who you have to beat to win whatever event, but which events are held in higher esteem. But I see your point; it's a logical one because by that notion, if I understand what you're trying to say, is that the harder the competition is, the more the win should be valued.

What I'm saying is that "a world title is a world title" no matter how easy or hard the competition might have been. But a jam-packed SA or NHK event will likely be considered less important. No different with major events in other sports. The prestige of the event (in this case, Worlds, Olympics, etc.) far outweighs whoever can/does attend.

For example- when Cohen won the nationals in '06 many people (me included) said she won it only because Kwan wasn't there. But at the end of the day, US Nationals is US Nationals, with or without Kwan or anybody else. And a national title is a national title, regardless of how "easy/hard" the event was. hopefully this isn't too confusing for folks