2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

So, answer me this: Who else is there other than Eteri who is able to coach skaters like Aliona and Sasha? And is a realistic option, which neither Mishin nor Raf are. Mishin has Liza and has made it very clear that he won‘t be taking in direct competitors of hers before she retires. Raf‘s in the US and ignoring the whole pandemic business, that‘s just not very financially feasible. Evgenia was able to go to Canada but she was twice the World Champ and an Olympic medalist. So. This leaves us with who, exactly? Davydov, Panova, or, god forbid, Buyanova? Yeah. That‘s what I‘m saying. There‘s a shocking lack of alternatives for a discipline as successful as Russian ladies skating has been in recent years.

I agree on Sasha and Eteri not being a good match. No idea about Aliona yet but she seems to be happier so far, let‘s hope it stays that way.

Mishin is capable of that. He might not take direct competition for Liza next season, but surely the world of figure skating doesn’t revolve around next season, there are many more seasons to come. He already has a new girl with a 3A btw, so a girl “to push Liza out” (as people like to say) is already growing up.
Panova and Davydov have multiple girls jumping 3A and quads. Samodelkina might have beat Akatieva this season, and as Davydov said, the only unfortunate thing is that despite being very prepared for Junior Nationals she got too nervous and didn’t deliver. I’m sure she’ll learn to deal with that and give Akatieva a good fight. Samodelkina was also very likely to beat Daria and Maiia this season, if it was a normal season.

I didn’t say Eteri and Sasha weren’t a good match. I think they’re good match. I said it’s “not an ideal” match. Specifically because of their goals not aligning recently. There’s a difference.

 

[Fluture]

Mishin is capable of that. He might not take direct competition for Liza next season, but surely the world of figure skating doesn’t revolve around next season, there are many more seasons to come. He already has a new girl with a 3A btw, so a girl to push Liza out is already growing up.
Panova and Davydov have multiple girls jumping 3A and quads. Samodelkina might have beat Akatieva this season, and as Davydov said, the only unfortunate thing is that despite being very prepared for Junior Nationals she got too nervous and didn’t deliver. I’m sure she’ll learn to deal with that and give Akatieva a good fight.

I didn’t say they weren’t a good match. I think they’re good match. I said it’s “not an ideal” match. There’s a difference.

Mishin is capable but can you really call him the future of Russian ladies coaching? Panova’s club has traditionally suffered from a lack of ice time and we‘ve seen more skaters leave than join her for a number of seasons. Davydov really seems to be the only one on track to develop competition for Eteri‘s team but he‘s not nearly on equal terms yet. For a discipline that has produced multiple Olympic, World and European Champions, it is pretty bleak to have only one highly successful team and another one silently growing in its shadows. I think it would be good for the athletes and the sport overall to have different teams of equal status for skaters to choose. But we can agree to disagree here.

Well, good for you. I‘ll disagree with you then and call it a bad match. Eteri‘s and Sasha‘s fundamental principles in this sport do not align. Eteri wants consistency, Sasha strives for records, no matter the cost. How is this supposed to work out? I‘ll be happy if it does but it‘s a pretty risky move to bank on that. Her Olympic chances may be higher now but you need to be in sync with your team mentally as well.

 

[flanker]

We can analyze, agree, disagree, like or dislike, but this is the reality now and everyone, incl. Eteri and her team, has to deal with it. People can talk about "Eteri bonus" and whatever, but the dominance of her team on the russian figure skating field comes from the very fact that the ladies she prepares or prepared are head and shoulders above the rest, with the little exceptions of extraordinary talents or minds like Liza Tuktamysheva or Sofia Samodelkina.

Yes, I think it would definitely be beneficial for the russian ladies to have broader competition, but the way to is leads through similarly competent team. Eteri herself ascended from being nobory to the position she has now. her own skating career fionished before it really started, she lived on charity, survived a terrorist attack, had to beg for the ice time in her coaching beginnings... Similarly Sergei had only average junior career behind him, doing show skating on a cruising ship for living, Daniil injured himself, lost his dad soon and was forced to skip the sporting career to support his mum.

Reading those CVs doesn't tell you much about that those three would becoma the most succesful current coachig team. There are definitely coaching teams and young coaches whose starting conditions are much better than those three had. So let's hope that there are coaching talents prepared to share their vision and with the similarly strong will.

 

[Scott512]

EG could bring young Sergei back! She needs more coaches.

Didn't Sasha leave TT because she couldn't get enough personal attention?

But this is a good move as far as increasing her chances to make the Olympic team. If Sasha gets the EG bounce back watch out. She could beat the KaMissle and Anna!

What happens to aliona now? Sasha returning to TT reduces AKs chances to make the Olympic team in my opinion.

 

[nussnacker]

Well, good for you. I‘ll disagree with you then and call it a bad match. Eteri‘s and Sasha‘s fundamental principles in this sport do not align. Eteri wants consistency, Sasha strives for records, no matter the cost. How is this supposed to work out? I‘ll be happy if it does but it‘s a pretty risky move to bank on that. Her Olympic chances may be higher now but you need to be in sync with your team mentally as well.

I agree with that. I wrote the same thing. But I still think Sasha needs someone who doesn’t just agree with her blindly, she needs someone to hold her back at times and keep her consistent. Ideally (ideal match), she needs someone who can help her land 5 quads consistently, but I don’t know who that might be. If not, the second best option, is being consistent with less than 5 quads. With this option, some conflicts between sides are inevitable. Though, I think this is still better than going for her absolute maximum and doing half of that, losing points everywhere.

 

[dynlarise]

EG could bring young Sergei back! She needs more coaches.

Didn't Sasha leave TT because she couldn't get enough personal attention?

But this is a good move as far as increasing her chances to make the Olympic team. If Sasha gets the EG bounce back watch out. She could beat the KaMissle and Anna!

What happens to aliona now? Sasha returning to TT reduces AKs chances to make the Olympic team in my opinion.

Nah if Aliona gets her 3A consistently Sasha needs to land 4 quads,Anna 3 quads and Kamila 3A&4T in order for them to win

 

[Scott512]

Nah if Aliona gets her 3A consistently Sasha needs to land 4 quads,Anna 3 quads and Kamila 3A&4T in order for them to win

I hope you're right because I would like to see the most beautiful skater in the world on the Olympic team.

Whatever happens it's going to be exciting so get your popcorn ready.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Looks like Liza Berestovskaya is no longer with Eteri. She was seen at AoP

 

[nussnacker]

Looks like Liza Beretovskaya is no longer with Eteri. She was seen at AoP
View attachment 3752

Aww, that’s a shame. She probably didn’t manage to pass the probation period. Maybe it’s for the better.

 

[flanker]

Aww, that’s a shame. She probably didn’t manage to pass the probation period. Maybe it’s for the better.

TBH, I would be happier if Liza stayed with Eteri and Sasha with Plushenko...

 

[chasingneverland]

OK, I didn't see this coming, but it seems the off-season and the new season starts with a...

Where is the person in the old thread who said we wouldn't have coaching changes?? haha

 

[Scott512]

Looks like Liza Berestovskaya is no longer with Eteri. She was seen at AoP
View attachment 3752

What? She's such a beautiful 13 year old skater how could she not pass a probationary period when she knows she has a quad?

I am tempted to see Sofia Samo with EG but I don't want to see her getting another high-level skater at this point in the ladies or girls disciplines. I want EG to get Aliev or Ignatov. She would toughen either of them up and give them the EG bounce they desperately need heading into the Olympic season.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Sambo's dancer teacher .. claims Liza is still at Sambo. Maybe someone did not update him?

 

[chasingneverland]

Yes, in theory. But the academy took such a big hit in reputation, it will be hard to recover from that. They lost four high profile skaters + a coach (Volkov) this season. I guess he could work his way up the rank with the Zhilinas, Muravieva and Titova, but it‘s a fact that he went into this season with lots of momentum and subsequently lost all of it.

As for ”stealing“. Tutberidze and her team just “stole“ T/M, despite them being a completely inexperienced team in pairs coaching. So, I don‘t want to hear anything else about this. You don‘t get to choose when it‘s stealing/poaching and when it isn‘t. Skaters change coaches all the time for a number of reasons. In the end they are individuals who make their own choices, they‘re not goods or products.

I would argue Eteri didn't "steal" T/M. They're not leaving their old coach. They're adding Eteri to their existing team.

But I also don't think Plushy "stole" Sasha and Aliona - they chose to leave. (The rumours of Alina are different - contacting her is closer to stealing.)

 

[chasingneverland]

Well, good for you. I‘ll disagree with you then and call it a bad match. Eteri‘s and Sasha‘s fundamental principles in this sport do not align. Eteri wants consistency, Sasha strives for records, no matter the cost. How is this supposed to work out? I‘ll be happy if it does but it‘s a pretty risky move to bank on that. Her Olympic chances may be higher now but you need to be in sync with your team mentally as well.

I think Plushy's philosophy matched better with Sasha's desire to jump 5 quads.

But remember, Plushy also got Sasha to not jump the 3A in the SP. And Eteri has let Sasha attempt 5 quads before in the past. (And she's landed 4 twice I think. In fact, she's landed more clean quads in a program with Eteri than with Plushy (although some of that is affected by time and she was injured with Plushy.) (And they've let both Sasha and Anna jump 4Lzs when they weren't even close to consistent as juniors, they let Maiia jump 4T/4S consistently when she wasn't landing them in competition, they let Kamila try for both 4S and backloaded 4T (as well as a 3A in the FS) when she hadn't even attempted either before.)

It's NOT that Eteri doesn't let her skaters take risks and records (remember all of Sasha's record she set with Eteri) - it's that they're calculated. So when they need to be clean at bigger competitions she emphasizes cleanliness - and it helps that the rest of their skates are literally FULL of code-advantageous elements (so they can afford more risks than some.) (Of note, it does seem like Anna's learned this a bit. For example: her FS at World's was originally a 4Lz and 4F, then based on practices she wanted to do two 4Fs (one in combo) and told her coaches and they agreed with her. But during the competition when she fell on her first 4F she herself decided to do a 3F+3T - that wasn't a decision that was made prior to her skating she said in an interview she made it herself while skating - because when she was at the JGPF she fell again on a quad and lost the combo - because she didn't want to run the risk of losing the combo (and getting a +REP) because that makes it not worth doing a quad at ALL.)

I think the difference is now both Sasha (and her parents) realize she ALSO needs to be clean. (After all, you can't set a record for 5 quads if you don't land them. It's also increasingly harder to set the record for highest score by not being clean considering her competition and their own technical content.)

 

[nussnacker]

Sambo's dancer teacher .. claims Liza is still at Sambo. Maybe someone did not update him?View attachment 3753

Liza messaged someone to take those photos down to not confuse people, saying she just visited one practice at AoP. But since photos are leaked, those news made headlines, I’m not sure she’ll stay at Sambo much longer...

 

[flanker]

Liza messaged someone to take those photos down to not confuse people, saying she just visited one practice at AoP. But since photos are leaked, those news made headlines, I’m not sure she’ll stay at Sambo much longer...

I'll just wait how this will turn out.

 

[Minz]

So.... as promised from last thread.. I said I would be making a list of all the ridiculous things that happened. Coming up.

 

[nussnacker]

I'll just wait how this will turn out.

Samokhvalov reports she left Khrustalny, and that it was coaches who let her go. So she didn’t pass the trial period. Perhaps she’s just not sure whether she will train with AoP.

 

[dante]

if you look at the broader picture, a situation like this is very worrisome for a discipline overall. Has this ever worked out that ONE coaching team has coached all the top talents?

Sorry, but we have only one superhuman coach. You can't end her monopoly without aborting the ongoing revolution in figure skating.