Coaches' Corner

[Scott512]

I think that such a reaction of the chief trainer for FS CSKA was that when he switched to Plushenko, he and Plushenko began to actively headhunt players from other clubs. And thus they violated the trainer ethics on the Russian field of the FS. In public schools of the Russian Federation there is no practice of signing contracts with students to protect them from transfers to other schools, and trainers did not initiate transfers. This could destroy the established order and parity. He also helped pick up two top Olympic-level skaters from a leading school, which could have destroyed Eteri's school altogether if other trainers and athletes had started to leave. I also read that he also tried to take students away from CSKA. When Plushenko decided to create his own school with a statement that he would revolutionize figure skating, and began to lure skaters from other famous schools, I think all schools were hostile to him.

Your post makes a good point about head hunting and things like that. But that's not a Rozanov issue. In fact he even told Aliona to think about it for a day or 2 before moving over to PA and leaving TT after a phenomenal debut season.

Rozanov does not have the clout Plushy does.
The Olympic champion is the one with the power and the promises that are impressive to a young skater and their parents.

I agree with you about ethics and not poaching but it's been going on a long time in figure skating. I'm sure other Russian coaches have done it besides plushy.

If coaches try to steal skaters then the federation needs to come down hard on those doing that. Sasha and aliona were free to go and they did and now they're back.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think the key is skaters need to find a safe place to coach, where they get good instruction, good tips and guidance, are respected and get proper instruction that works for them. They need to consider also who has the political clout to serve them well as a competitior. Being an olympic champion does not translate into a good coach necessarily and it todes take some time or experience. It seems choreography can be quicker. But even Lambiel and Plushy are still early on in their coaching careers it seems. i think Eteri has to make sure she does not spread herself too thin and that she gets some good and different choreographers.

 

[melsh]

well, Buyanova might have beef with him for other reasons. I agree someone else may have leaked the dirty laundry to the press, someone who knows what PR is.
The issue of poaching is more complicated than it seems. No one is an angel and no one is the devil. On one hand, the recruiters probably approach a skater, hear them out about the problems they have with her coach and promise to give her exactly what she would like to get. Figure skating is also a business so no surprise things go this way. If skaters were happy and satisfied with what they already have they would reject any sweet voice coming to them. Eteri is not perfect. But, on the other hand, Plushenko knows very well how little experience he has as a coach/manager. He promises the Olympic gold with zero past results to back up his promise? Because he says he has Rozanov the jumping genius? he trusted him so much to really believe he could get such spectacular results or he was just bored and wanted to get great skaters right away? He should have been honest because he almost looks like a fraud now. Third, the skaters who listened to him and moved were being naive. Given that the Olympics are near, moving to a brand new school whose owner is an inexperienced person is a bad move. They are young, it's not their fault. The parents should have known better though.

 

[Scott512]

well, Buyanova might have beef with him for other reasons. I agree someone else may have leaked the dirty laundry to the press, someone who knows what PR is.
The issue of poaching is more complicated than it seems. No one is an angel and no one is the devil. On one hand, the recruiters probably approach a skater, hear them out about the problems they have with her coach and promise to give her exactly what she would like to get. Figure skating is also a business so no surprise things go this way. If skaters were happy and satisfied with what they already have they would reject any sweet voice coming to them. Eteri is not perfect. But, on the other hand, Plushenko knows very well how little experience he has as a coach/manager. He promises the Olympic gold with zero past results to back up his promise? Because he says he has Rozanov the jumping genius? he trusted him so much to really believe he could get such spectacular results or he was just bored and wanted to get great skaters right away? He should have been honest because he almost looks like a fraud now. Third, the skaters who listened to him and moved were being naive. Given that the Olympics are near, moving to a brand new school whose owner is an inexperienced person is a bad move. They are young, it's not their fault. The parents should have known better though.

Perfectly stated. I especially like your no one is an angel and no one is the devil quip.

And the issue of poaching is super complicated because is recruiting or promising poaching? And yes plushiy promises carriy weight because he's one of the greatest skaters of all time an Olympic champion (should be 2 time) and one of the greatest athletes Russia has ever produced. If he says something impressive and promising the skater's parents will be impressed. While Haynes Academy has taken a big hit losing aliona and Sasha back to back I'm sure he thinks he will recover from it.

I just don't know why PA is not recruiting top male skaters from around Russia. I think he will now that is too big guns have left.

 

[Amei]

Perfectly stated. I especially like your no one is an angel and no one is the devil quip.

And the issue of poaching is super complicated because is recruiting or promising poaching? And yes plushiy promises carriy weight because he's one of the greatest skaters of all time an Olympic champion (should be 2 time) and one of the greatest athletes Russia has ever produced. If he says something impressive and promising the skater's parents will be impressed. While Haynes Academy has taken a big hit losing aliona and Sasha back to back I'm sure he thinks he will recover from it.

I just don't know why PA is not recruiting top male skaters from around Russia. I think he will now that is too big guns have left.

Could it also be because of Plushenko's comments about private schools vs. State schools, I can't remember his exact comments but I vaguely remember him doing an interview about private schools like his being so much better; I can imagine that other coaches who have prominence in a state school being a bit salty towards coaches from private schools and perhaps willing to talk a little smack?

Plushenko's issue i think is that he tried to go from 0-60 in coaching vs. working his way up like Eteri. He may be a great athlete but that doesn't mean he's a good coach, and considering Trusova left and we know how focused he was on her might be indicative that he's not ready for that level of skaters

 

[Kittosuni]

The biggest difference between Plushenko and the state school coaches is that aside from being a coach, he also has a business to run. He doesn't have the luxury to wait and develop a skater before they become dominant.

It makes sense that he is pumping out money now by acquiring top skaters as a form of investment in hope that their success translate to inflow of cash thru winnings, sponsorship, national team stipends, plus attraction of more skaters/more enrollment. It needs to be done ASAP.

Honestly If I were in his shoes, I would have probably have done the same thing. Poach all the talented kids from other schools. I think Everything went south when the unnecessary PR war/drama that her wife started. They further alienated themselves when they also started attacking the skaters that were beating their students and worst, they went after Rusfed who at the end of the day has power over them.

 

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[Scott512]

Could it also be because of Plushenko's comments about private schools vs. State schools, I can't remember his exact comments but I vaguely remember him doing an interview about private schools like his being so much better; I can imagine that other coaches who have prominence in a state school being a bit salty towards coaches from private schools and perhaps willing to talk a little smack?

Plushenko's issue i think is that he tried to go from 0-60 in coaching vs. working his way up like Eteri. He may be a great athlete but that doesn't mean he's a good coach, and considering Trusova left and we know how focused he was on her might be indicative that he's not ready for that level of skaters

Yes it could be the state school versus the private school differences.

We know being a great athleye in your sport does not mean you will be a great coach look at Michael Jordan. He has been a disaster as president and general manager in the NBA. We won't know about plushy for a few more years but hes had some bumps on the road.

 

[Scott512]

The biggest difference between Plushenko and the state school coaches is that aside from being a coach, he also has a business to run. He doesn't have the luxury to wait and develop a skater before they become dominant.

It makes sense that he is pumping out money now by acquiring top skaters as a form of investment in hope that their success translate to inflow of cash thru winnings, sponsorship, national team stipends, plus attraction of more skaters/more enrollment. It needs to be done ASAP.

Honestly If I were in his shoes, I would have probably have done the same thing. Poach all the talented kids from other schools. I think Everything went south when the unnecessary PR war/drama that her wife started. They further alienated themselves when they also started attacking the skaters that were beating their students and worst, they went after Rusfed who at the end of the day has power over them.

Yes PA has started to alienate themselves I think taking a step back next season and being more locate will help them.

Where does plushy get his funding from for his Private academy.

 

[Amei]

Yes PA has started to alienate themselves I think taking a step back next season and being more locate will help them.

Where does plushy get his funding from for his Private academy.

My understanding is that he's invested a lot of his own, but skaters pay fees - someone said in i think the Kostornaia leaving AoP thread that Konstantinova mentioned briefly in an interview how expensive AoP was like fees to even use a treadmill.

 

[Scott512]

My understanding is that he's invested a lot of his own, but skaters pay fees - someone said in i think the Kostornaia leaving AoP thread that Konstantinova mentioned briefly in an interview how expensive AoP was like fees to even use a treadmill.

What? How can kids who don't have jobs afford to pay PA for the treadmill? Stasya may have some money. But to have to pay to use the treadmill probably did not sit well with her.

I know Brian Orser makes a killing with the fees to be coached by him. I didn't think that happened in Russia but I guess with a private Academy like PA it can.

 

[el henry]

What? How can kids who don't have jobs afford to pay PA for the treadmill? Stasya may have some money. But to have to pay to use the treadmill probably did not sit well with her.

I know Brian Orser makes a killing with the fees to be coached by him. I didn't think that happened in Russia but I guess with a private Academy like PA it can.

Scott, I would not say that Brian Orser "makes a killing".

He charges the same hourly rate that other elite North American coaches charge. AFAIK, the coaches in North America are independent contractor and responsible for higher taxes, (at least in the US contractors are taxed at a higher rate) health insurance, etc And the fees from the students are their sole source of income.

If figure skating coaches in North America were making a killing, there would be a lot more of them.

 

[flanker]

What? How can kids who don't have jobs afford to pay PA for the treadmill? Stasya may have some money. But to have to pay to use the treadmill probably did not sit well with her.

I know Brian Orser makes a killing with the fees to be coached by him. I didn't think that happened in Russia but I guess with a private Academy like PA it can.

On his defence, Plushenko actively tried to look for sponsors for his skaters who would pay all the costs. But of course only the best/most promising had a chance to get one, those without a name have to pay all by themselves (or their parents to be more precise). If I remember correctly it was said the average cost for an AoP skater is about 60 thousand rubles per month.

 

[Apple1078]

Does anyone know if skaters pay membership fees at private clubs like TCC and Granite or how that works? Those fees are massive.

 

[Colonel Green]

Does anyone know if skaters pay membership fees at private clubs like TCC and Granite or how that works? Those fees are massive.

Yes, you have to be a member.

 

[Scott512]

On his defence, Plushenko actively tried to look for sponsors for his skaters who would pay all the costs. But of course only the best/most promising had a chance to get one, those without a name have to pay all by themselves (or their parents to be more precise). If I remember correctly it was said the average cost for an AoP skater is about 60 thousand rubles per month.

Damn that's a lot of money.

What's the point of having sponsors if the skater is not putting that money in the bank? If sponsor money is going to the academy owner and not the athlete then that's not good. How are the Zhilina sisters paying for everything? Hmmmm.

 

[Scott512]

Scott, I would not say that Brian Orser "makes a killing".

He charges the same hourly rate that other elite North American coaches charge. AFAIK, the coaches in North America are independent contractor and responsible for higher taxes, (at least in the US contractors are taxed at a higher rate) health insurance, etc And the fees from the students are their sole source of income.

If figure skating coaches in North America were making a killing, there would be a lot more of them.

And unfortunately Brian's hourly rate in Canada is worth a lot less then the same hourly rate for American coaches are.

 

[flanker]

Damn that's a lot of money.

What's the point of having sponsors if the skater is not putting that money in the bank? If sponsor money is going to the academy owner and not the athlete then that's not good. How are the Zhilina sisters paying for everything? Hmmmm.

You can imagine it also the way that the sponsor gives the money to the skater and the skater uses the money as a payment for training in AoP instead of direct payment from the sponsor to the AoP, but that't not important. I also presume a generous sponsor can pay more to the skater than just the costs, that depends on him.

 

[Amei]

Damn that's a lot of money.

What's the point of having sponsors if the skater is not putting that money in the bank? If sponsor money is going to the academy owner and not the athlete then that's not good.

The point? Well figure skating costs money and that has to paid for somehow and from what I know of Russia there are 3 ways: taxpayer funded stipend from the state, parents or sponsorship deals. While I can justify why Plushenko's soliciting/getting sponsors for his skaters, given that he's a big name he's got prior business relationships with some of them, etc. the only way it seems a 'conflict' to me is if his negotiations with the potential sponsors is in anyway related to the finances.

How are the Zhilina sisters paying for everything? Hmmmm.

Well Veronika Zhilina was on the Ice age kids show so I would think she made some money off of that and maybe that's part of why they are coached by their mother? I doubt she sends them a bill. Plus if she has other students she's either drawing a salary from AoP or her salary covers her daughter's training fees not associated to her direct training of them.

 

[Scott512]

The point? Well figure skating costs money and that has to paid for somehow and from what I know of Russia there are 3 ways: taxpayer funded stipend from the state, parents or sponsorship deals. While I can justify why Plushenko's soliciting/getting sponsors for his skaters, given that he's a big name he's got prior business relationships with some of them, etc. the only way it seems a 'conflict' to me is if his negotiations with the potential sponsors is in anyway related to the finances.



Well Veronika Zhilina was on the Ice age kids show so I would think she made some money off of that and maybe that's part of why they are coached by their mother? I doubt she sends them a bill. Plus if she has other students she's either drawing a salary from AoP or her salary covers her daughter's training fees not associated to her direct training of them.

Veronika was the most cant miss 11 year old girl I've ever seen. So to see her struggling like she has in the last season at 12 is confusing. I would like to see VZ pull back the reins a little bit and get more consistent with triples and her beautiful skating and then as the years go by add more ultra jumps in but she doesn't need to do it all by the age of 12.

I would also like to see her with a real coach not her mother. Then when they added Morozov to the group Veronika got more confused.

As for her finances I don't know. I hope her family has money because Plushy aint cheap.