2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[beepboop]

But Group A and Group B had two completely different judging panels. (Ditto for the tech panels, BTW.)

The Group A judges can't be held responsible for the PCS given to Group B (including Clare).
And the Group B judges can't be held responsible for the PCS given to Group A (including Isabeau).

Thanks for the correction!

"Decision" was the wrong word to use. I'm mostly commenting on the fact that judges, in general, don't seem to reward PCS fairly, and didn't mean to criticize this particular judging panel. For the record, Isabeau also received higher PCS than Clare at Nationals, when they were judged by the same panel.

 

[RatedPG]

Well, Young You attempted a quad salchow this evening followed by the triple axel. She didn’t get positive GOEs on either jump. But, was clean on all the jumps afterwards. We have another lady attempting a 3A plus Quad combination.

 

[sheetz]

Well, Young You attempted a quad salchow this evening followed by the triple axel. She didn’t get positive GOEs on either jump. But, was clean on all the jumps afterwards. We have another lady attempting a 3A plus Quad combination.

Shame she doesn't represent the US.

 

[readernick]

Thanks for the correction!

"Decision" was the wrong word to use. I'm mostly commenting on the fact that judges, in general, don't seem to reward PCS fairly, and didn't mean to criticize this particular judging panel. For the record, Isabeau also received higher PCS than Clare at Nationals, when they were judged by the same panel.

I think Isabeau deserves higher PCS, with the obvious exception of SS where Clare is superior. The strangest thing on the protocols for me is Clare did not get straight -5s for a fall. Aren't falls always suppose to get -5 GOE? Or, are technical falls different?

 

[beepboop]

Not sure if she only planned to do the SP all along, but Karen just withdrew from Broadmoor.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Not sure if she only planned to do the SP all along, but Karen just withdrew from Broadmoor.

It is normal for skaters to only skate the SP at Broadmoor. Other skaters from Karen's camp also withdrew. In the past Broadmoor offered skaters to only skate the SP or FS or both.

 

[natsulian]

In anticipation of the upcoming Junior Grand Prix assignments and Skate Milwaukee, here is a list of the top six highest scores from the summer competitions (meaning highest short and free skate scores combined from different competitions) the junior women have received:

1. Lindsay Thorngren - 60.76 (Colonial Open) + 129.85 (White Rose Invitational) = 190.61
2. Isabeau Levito - 67.86 (Denver Open) + 121.36 (Broadmoor Open) = 189.22
3. Clare Seo - 63.44 (Broadmoor Open) + 116.66 (Broadmoor Open) = 180.10
4. Mia Kalin - 62.29 (Broadmoor Open) + 117.03 (Broadmoor Open) = 179.32
5. Kanon Smith - 63.78 (La Jolla Open) + 107.64 (La Jolla Open) = 171.42
6. Ava Ziegler - 57.88 (Atlanta Open) + 106.84 (Atlanta Open) = 164.72

I understand that judging is different with each competition and they can never truly be compared, but I hope this gives us a better picture of the scoring possibilities of our junior women. Other top scoring junior women include Adele Zheng (159.49) and Josephine Lee (146.05).

Of the top six junior women, four of them have attempted quadruple jumps or the triple-Axel during competition or practices: Thorngren (3A), Levito (4T), Kalin (4T, 4S, and 3A), and Smith (3A).

 

[Sk8D8]

Not sure if she only planned to do the SP all along, but Karen just withdrew from Broadmoor.

Is she using last years program for her freeskate?
She’s done this before, if her short doesn’t go well, she withdraws from long. Better to withdraw is she’s not going to do well bc it’s Olympic season. it’s still early so no reason to compete so early, especially is it’s a recycled program.

 

[ice coverage]

In anticipation of the upcoming Junior Grand Prix assignments and Skate Milwaukee, here is a list of the top six highest scores from the summer competitions (meaning highest short and free skate scores combined from different competitions) the junior women have received:

1. Lindsay Thorngren - 60.76 (Colonial Open) + 129.85 (White Rose Invitational) = 190.61
2. Isabeau Levito - 67.86 (Denver Open) + 121.36 (Broadmoor Open) = 189.22 ...

Footnotes:

Thorngren's SP and FS scores are from Senior Ladies, as is Levito's SP score.
(Yes, I know that they both are eligible for JGPs.)​

... I hope this gives us a better picture of the scoring possibilities of our junior women. Other top scoring junior women include Adele Zheng (159.49) and Josephine Lee (146.05). ...

More names ...

Hannah Herrera: 54.77 SP (Fort Collins) + 106.67 FS (Denver Invitational) = 161.44
Maryn Pierce: 62.92 Junior SP (Heart of America) + 95.94 Junior FS (Heart of America) = 158.86
Jessica Lin: 52.25 Senior SP (Skate Dallas) + 98.83 Senior FS (Skate Dallas) =151.08​

---

... In the past Broadmoor offered skaters to only skate the SP or FS or both.

I recall that Broadmoor offered "SP only" event and "Combined Event" (SP+FS) in the past.
FWIW, I do not recall "FS only" event -- although if a qualifying round for Combined Event was necessary, the FS was competed. To avoid skating the SP, I suppose someone could have planned in advance to withdraw from Combined Event after the qualifying round FS.

 

[natsulian]

For Skate Milwaukee (July 7-11), there will be a livestream and the link to the results page should be up in a few days.

Link to livestream: https://chicagostarproductions.com/live-stream fbclid=IwAR3YPfWdvUb0ihFcgU_7sRSXBhLa2WrGkol5x7o8oMvQqLjvYarIGiY8aL8

 

[Dawn825]

Is she using last years program for her freeskate?

Yes I'm pretty sure Karen has said she's using Butterfly Lovers again.

 

[haribobo]

Top 5 Scores for US in Summer 2021 (so far)

SENIOR WOMEN SP
Isabeau Levito 67
Starr Andrews 66
Karen Chen 61
Lindsay Thorngren 60
Paige Rydberg 58

SENIOR WOMEN FS
Lindsay Thorngren 123
Isabeau Levito 116
Sierra Venetta 110
Gabriella Izzo 108
Paige Rydberg 107

JUNIOR WOMEN SP
Isabeau Levito 64
Kanon Smith 63
Clare Seo 63
Maryn Pierce 62
Mia Kalin 62

JUNIOR WOMEN FS
Isabeau Levito 121
Mia Kalin 117
Clare Seo 116
Adele Zheng 109
Kanon Smith 107

 

[Lzbee]

Disappointed that Karen withdrew from the FS... I feel like the more competition experience she gets the better because there's no leeway for nerves this season if you only have a standard triple jump layout.

I get that it may be better for her reputation to withdraw but still...

 

[spicymacaron]

She may have never intended to complete in the FS at all. In normal years, the SP and FS are separate competitions at Broadmoor.

 

[ptvvibezz]

USFS has announced the funding envelopes. Bradie and Karen are on team A. Audrey, Lindsey, Mariah, Starr, Amber, and Alysa are on team B. Gabriella Izzo, Isabeau Levito, Kanon Smith, and Clare Seo are on team C. Team D includes
Jessica Lin, Kate Wang, Elsa Cheng, Tamnhi Huynh, Ava Ziegler, Nicole Park, Kaylee Dobson, Cayetana Gonzalez, Soho Lee, Katie Krafchik, and Rinako Oya.

 

[beepboop]

USFS has announced the funding envelopes. Bradie and Karen are on team A. Audrey, Lindsey, Mariah, Starr, Amber, and Alysa are on team B. Gabriella Izzo, Isabeau Levito, Kanon Smith, and Clare Seo are on team C. Team D includes
Jessica Lin, Kate Wang, Elsa Cheng, Tamnhi Huynh, Ava Ziegler, Nicole Park, Kaylee Dobson, Cayetana Gonzalez, Soho Lee, Katie Krafchik, and Rinako Oya.

Kind of hilarious that the selection criteria straight up ignores the fact that the season was completely disrupted by the pandemic.

Team A includes "2021 ISU Four Continents champion," and Team B includes "2021 ISU World Junior champion," not to mention multiple references to GPF qualification

 

[ice coverage]

Kind of hilarious that the selection criteria straight up ignores the fact that the season was completely disrupted by the pandemic. ...

I disagree entirely.
The 2021-22 criteria show obvious differences from those for normal non-pandemic seasons -- such as the inclusion of results from the virtual ISP Points Challenge, and the absence of JGP results.

... Team A includes "2021 ISU Four Continents champion," and Team B includes "2021 ISU World Junior champion," not to mention multiple references to GPF qualification

The 2021-22 criteria have been on the USFS website going back to at least Oct 12, 2020 (per my GS post on that date ).
Perhaps even earlier.

2021 Four Continents was not cancelled until Oct 16, 2020.

2021 Junior Worlds were not cancelled until Nov 24, 2020.

GPF for the 2020-21 season was not definitively cancelled until Dec 10, 2020.
The definitive cancellation finally eliminated the possibility of postponement of GPF.

 

[beepboop]

I disagree entirely.
The 2021-22 criteria show obvious differences from those for normal non-pandemic seasons -- such as the inclusion of results from the virtual ISP Points Challenge, and the absence of JGP results.



The 2021-22 criteria have been on the USFS website going back to at least Oct 12, 2020 (per my GS post on that date ).
Perhaps even earlier.

2021 Four Continents was not cancelled until Oct 16, 2020.

2021 Junior Worlds were not cancelled until Nov 24, 2020.

GPF for the 2020-21 season was not definitively cancelled until Dec 10, 2020.
The definitive cancellation finally eliminated the possibility of postponement of GPF.

I mean it's not that hard to post amended criteria that acknowledge the cancellation of these events.

And, especially because several key events were cancelled after the criteria were published, a responsible and equitable fed should probably respond and adapt to those changes rather than sticking to now defunct (or at least majorly deficient) selection criteria. It would be fairer to at least take the previous season's results into consideration when many skaters only competed in one or two competitions all season.

 

[LiamForeman]

Disappointed that Karen withdrew from the FS... I feel like the more competition experience she gets the better because there's no leeway for nerves this season if you only have a standard triple jump layout.

I get that it may be better for her reputation to withdraw but still...

And this was about the time four years ago when I should have stopped investing emotionally in Karen Chen. I won't make the same exact mistake this time around! I expect a lot of drama and excuses coming from her camp, for good reason.

 

[ice coverage]

I mean it's not that hard to post amended criteria that acknowledge the cancellation of these events.

And, especially because several key events were cancelled after the criteria were published, a responsible and equitable fed should probably respond and adapt to those changes rather than sticking to now defunct (or at least majorly deficient) selection criteria. It would be fairer to at least take the previous season's results into consideration when many skaters only competed in one or two competitions all season.

It is merely your opinion that it would have been "fairer" to add 2019-20 results to the criteria.

My belief (only a belief) is that USFS did not amend the criteria because it wanted to keep the 2020-21 season [Worlds, Nats (senior and junior), Skate America, ISP Points Challenge (senior and junior)] as determinative -- and that it did not think that it would be more equitable to expand (across the board) the scope of results on which envelope funding would be based.

And because the "Additional Considerations" do (as is true every year) give USFS the latitude to take earlier results into account on a discretionary basis.
For example: Torgashev will receive Team C funding for 2021-22, although his only competition in 2020-21 was Peggy Fleming Trophy, which is not part of the criteria.

Per the "Additional Considerations", it also is possible (as is true every year) for USFS to add skaters to envelope funding if/when they meet certain conditions during the new season.