2021-22 Japanese Women's Figure Skating

[readernick]

Dave is nuts.. that’s not tea, that just a freaking fact boo. Rika should be on the Olympic team - heads, shoulders, hand down.

If healthy and landing her 3As, yes.. She can potentially score 240 even without a 4S. Dave Lease says a bunch of valueless stuff that isn't worth listening to...

As an all around skater, she is better than all the other Japanese ladies, even Wakaba who is one of my favorites.The other ladies even with one 3A will top out at a much lower scoring ceiling 220/225?

However, Rika was unable to walk after her SP last year at WTT. Will she be healthy enough to skate to her potential? Her health could keep her off the team, the other Japanese women can't. She has won nationals by double digits the last two years.

 

[Joekaz]

If healthy and landing her 3As, yes.. She can potentially score 240 even without a 4S. Dave Lease says a bunch of valueless stuff that isn't worth listening to...

As an all around skater, she is better than all the other Japanese ladies, even Wakaba who is one of my favorites.The other ladies even with one 3A will top at a much lower scoring ceiling 220/225?

However, Rika was unable to walk after her SP last year at WTT. Will she be healthy enough to skate to her potential? Her health could keep her off the team, the other Japanese women can't. She has won nationals by double digits the last two years.

I disagree that Rika is a better all round skater than Wakaba. If Wakaba can include a 3A combo as she has stated, and Rika does not have a quad, Wakaba would score higher if both are clean with equivalent tech content. Rika does not have edge issues, which gives her a small advantage. But Wakaba has much more speed and power, better jumps, including the 3A, has better musicality and is a far better performer. Wakaba’s issue is consistency, as is Rika's too, which isn't an issue here since we are talking about ability when clean.

 

[readernick]

I disagree that Rika is a better all round skater than Wakaba. If Wakaba can include a 3A combo as she has stated, and Rika does not have a quad, Wakaba would score higher if both are clean with equivalent tech content. Rika does not have edge issues, which gives her a small advantage. But Wakaba has much more speed and power, better jumps, including the 3A, has better musicality and is a far better performer. Wakaba’s issue is consistency, as is Rika's too, which isn't an issue here since we are talking about ability when clean.

Rika's spins are better. She has landed the most 3As of any woman in history. Wakaba has landed one clean 3A and that wasn't even in international competition.She has more transitions and better edges on both StepSeq and jumps. Her jump setups are much shorter. She is also incredible consistent on all her triple jumps and hadn't missed any to for years prior to her serious injury that impacted her Worlds and WTT performances. Wakaba's international best score is 207 points. That's like 30 points lower than Rika's. One or even two 3As isn't going to make up that difference especially since Wakaba's flip gets edge calls and her Lutz is flat. Finally, Wakaba always pops at least one jump. It's fine to have your favorites but some aspects of skating aren't related to preference. They are just facts.

 

[irriya]

I disagree that Rika is a better all round skater than Wakaba. If Wakaba can include a 3A combo as she has stated, and Rika does not have a quad, Wakaba would score higher if both are clean with equivalent tech content. Rika does not have edge issues, which gives her a small advantage. But Wakaba has much more speed and power, better jumps, including the 3A, has better musicality and is a far better performer. Wakaba’s issue is consistency, as is Rika's too, which isn't an issue here since we are talking about ability when clean.

Rika's spins are better. She has landed the most 3As of any woman in history. Wakaba has landed one clean 3A and that wasn't even in international competition.She has more transitions and better edges on both StepSeq and jumps. Her jump setups are much shorter. She is also incredible consistent on all her triple jumps and hadn't missed any to for years prior to her serious injury that impacted her Worlds and WTT performances. Wakaba's international best score is 207 points. That's like 30 points lower than Rika's. One or even two 3As isn't going to make up that difference especially since Wakaba's flip gets edge calls and her Lutz is flat. Finally, Wakaba always pops at least one jump. It's fine to have your favorites but some aspects of skating aren't related to preference. They are just facts.

Rika has more weapon than Wakaba. Wakaba doesn't have 3A combo and her 3Lz3T is on the edge of <. Wakaba also has Flip edge problem, and I don't think Wakaba can add more than one 3A in her programs really. And last her consistency is questionable. She doesn't have one season that she was able to keep good enough energy from beginning to the end. Wakaba does have a better program, performance and interpretation than Rika but we all know that judges don't really give a shit

 

[Joekaz]

Rika's spins are better. She has landed the most 3As of any woman in history. Wakaba has landed one clean 3A and that wasn't even in international competition.She has more transitions and better edges on both StepSeq and jumps. Her jump setups are much shorter. She is also incredible consistent on all her triple jumps and hadn't missed any to for years prior to her serious injury that impacted her Worlds and WTT performances. Wakaba's international best score is 207 points. That's like 30 points lower than Rika's. One or even two 3As isn't going to make up that difference especially since Wakaba's flip gets edge calls and her Lutz is flat. Finally, Wakaba always pops at least one jump. It's fine to have your favorites but some aspects of skating are l aren't related to preference. They are just facts.

You need to check your facts my friend. Wakaba exceeded 210, 3 times in 2017. Lombardia, Cup of China, and World Championships. Last I checked, those are all international competitions. I gave you the edges, although Wakaba has never been called on her lutz. Rika is technically very sound, but has no charisma and little musicality. She is very slow compared to Wakaba and has nowhere near her power. Wakaba's one 3A was far better than any Rika has or will ever land with her limited jumping ability. I was comparing them with equal tech content. I defy you to find any of Rikas performance that come close to Wakaba Skyfall performance. It doesn't exist. I give you that Rika has been far more successful and scored much higher due to her ability to rotate quickly. I admit Wakaba has had a very disappointing career and been very inconsistent. I am talking about talent and peak performance ability. And Rika hasn't been very consistent on the biggest stages internationally either. I do believe Wakaba has a silver from World's. Skating is all opinion. In my opinion there are 3 special talents im Japan's women right now. Wakaba, Satoko, and Rino. The rest are solid skaters that check the boxes( except Kaori, who is great and terrible at the same time). Right now Rika is an unknown and has to show she is healthy, and Wakaba has to show some consistency, or none of this matters. And I admit Wakaba does not fill me with confidence yet, after years of disappointment. Lol

 

[readernick]

You need to check your facts my friend. Wakaba exceeded 210, 3 times in 2017. Lombardia, Cup of China, and World Championships. Last I checked, those are all international competitions. I gave you the edges, although Wakaba has never been called on her lutz. Rika is technically very sound, but has no charisma and little musicality. She is very slow compared to Wakaba and has nowhere near her power. Wakaba's one 3A was far better than any Rika has or will ever land with her limited jumping ability. I was comparing them with equal tech content. I defy you to find any of Rikas performance that come close to Wakaba Skyfall performance. It doesn't exist. I give you that Rika has been far more successful and scored much higher due to her ability to rotate quickly. I admit Wakaba has had a very disappointing career and been very inconsistent. I am talking about talent and peak performance ability. And Rika hasn't been very consistent on the biggest stages internationally either. I do believe Wakaba has a silver from World's. Skating is all opinion. In my opinion there are 3 special talents im Japan's women right now. Wakaba, Satoko, and Rino. The rest are solid skaters that check the boxes( except Kaori, who is great and terrible at the same time). Right now Rika is an unknown and has to show she is healthy, and Wakaba has to show some consistency, or none of this matters. And I admit Wakaba does not fill me with confidence yet, after years of disappointment. Lol

Sorry but Rika's Beautiful Storm was the best program of the quad. Yes, even better than Skyfall which I also loved. Her Breakfast in Baghdad at SC was also amazing and her SP at Worlds.

When I say best, I am talking about non-preferential aspects of skating. Edges, rotations, spins, StepSeq , transitions and in these things Rika is better.

Wakaba's scores prior to 2018 don't count because that is a different scoring system. The ISU only considers scores from the current system when calculating PBs. So, my fact is correct.

I love Wakaba's powerful style but the judges don't.

About Rika's health, I agree. But, that goes back to my original point. Rika's health might defeat her. The other Japanese ladies won't.

 

[Joekaz]

Sorry but Rika's Beautiful Storm was the best program of the quad. Yes, even better than Skyfall which I also loved. Her Breakfast in Baghdad at SC was also amazing and her SP at Worlds.

When I say best, I am talking about non-preferential aspects of skating. Edges, rotations, spins, StepSeq , transitions and in these things Rika is better.

Wakaba's scores prior to 2018 don't count because that is a different scoring system. The ISU only considers scores from the current system when calculating PBs. So, my fact is correct.

I love Wakaba's power style but the judges don't.

About Rika's health, I agree. But, that goes back to my original point. Rika's health might defeat her. The other Japanese ladies won't.

In the physical talent aspects of skating, Wakaba is much faster, jumps higher, has much better musicality, and is a much better performer. Those are the parts of skating that make a star. Rika is a good box checker. And since you didn't preface your original comment on scoring, your statement was indeed incorrect.

 

[Joekaz]

Rika has more weapon than Wakaba. Wakaba doesn't have 3A combo and her 3Lz3T is on the edge of <. Wakaba also has Flip edge problem, and I don't think Wakaba can add more than one 3A in her programs really. And last her consistency is questionable. She doesn't have one season that she was able to keep good enough energy from beginning to the end. Wakaba does have a better program, performance and interpretation than Rika but we all know that judges don't really give a shit

And how has Rika looked lately?

 

[Joekaz]

It really isn't a skating season without me going out on a limb defending Wakaba so she can make me look like a jackass later. So one more time won't hurt.

 

[Skatesocs]

I disagree that Rika is a better all round skater than Wakaba. If Wakaba can include a 3A combo as she has stated, and Rika does not have a quad, Wakaba would score higher if both are clean with equivalent tech content. Rika does not have edge issues, which gives her a small advantage. But Wakaba has much more speed and power, better jumps, including the 3A, has better musicality and is a far better performer. Wakaba’s issue is consistency, as is Rika's too, which isn't an issue here since we are talking about ability when clean.

I'd have to agree with the bolded. Rika is more consistent and has better spins, no doubt. But Wakaba is the better jumper, and has better presentation skills. She's also got better skating skills, but I'd rank her third behind Satoko and Kaori.

For programs, I think Skyfall holds up well against Rika's Beautiful Storm and International Angel of Peace, although I wouldn't say any of them are all that memorable anymore. I loved Skyfall during the season, but its impression has faded. And I think Wakaba's Gypsy Dance is the best SP between the two.

And it's OK to defend a favorite's skating and look like a jackass Especially when there's some truth to your words.

 

[lurkerghost1]

You need to check your facts my friend. Wakaba exceeded 210, 3 times in 2017. Lombardia, Cup of China, and World Championships. Last I checked, those are all international competitions. I gave you the edges, although Wakaba has never been called on her lutz. Rika is technically very sound, but has no charisma and little musicality. She is very slow compared to Wakaba and has nowhere near her power. Wakaba's one 3A was far better than any Rika has or will ever land with her limited jumping ability. I was comparing them with equal tech content. I defy you to find any of Rikas performance that come close to Wakaba Skyfall performance. It doesn't exist. I give you that Rika has been far more successful and scored much higher due to her ability to rotate quickly. I admit Wakaba has had a very disappointing career and been very inconsistent. I am talking about talent and peak performance ability. And Rika hasn't been very consistent on the biggest stages internationally either. I do believe Wakaba has a silver from World's. Skating is all opinion. In my opinion there are 3 special talents im Japan's women right now. Wakaba, Satoko, and Rino. The rest are solid skaters that check the boxes( except Kaori, who is great and terrible at the same time). Right now Rika is an unknown and has to show she is healthy, and Wakaba has to show some consistency, or none of this matters. And I admit Wakaba does not fill me with confidence yet, after years of disappointment. Lol

Wakaba and Satoko are my favorite skaters since Mao and their program versatility is rivaled only by the ice dancers among today’s skaters. For Wakaba Scheherazade, Gypsy Dance, Skyfall, Bird Set Free, Lion King are all among the best programs of all time, and Satoko has several best programs of all time too (Firedance, the Planets, MOAG, Song for a Little Sparrow, Inverno Porteño, Tosca).

But that doesn’t mean the others are box checkers. Compared to any other country the explosive diversity of the top crop in Japan is just unbelievable. Yes Russia has the amazing technical content and consistency right now but most of them don’t have the skating skills + expressiveness to pull off a Japanese ladies’ program. Only Kostornaia, Gubanova, Usacheva, Sinitsyna would stand a chance.

————

Rika - um first ever 3A+3T, first ever 8 triple free skate, 4S, 1 handed-cartwheel hello? Unbelievable talent. Amazing body control and dance ability on ice. Not even to mention the perfect 3Lz and 3F, so so rare.

Kaori - one of the fastest skaters of all time. Best 2A, best 3Lo of all time. So consistent. One handed biellman? Guillotine spiral? Yes!!

Rino - amazing finish and glide in all her movements. And so confident in the jumps to backload all her combos - consistency Queen.

Mana - amazing speed, and when she’s on she’s equal in jumping to the best in the country. Let’s be honest in Russia her Japan open free skate would go 150+

Mai Mihara - knee bend. I don’t even need to say anything else. Well I guess 3S too.

Marin - ridiculously good expressiveness, one of the most charismatic skaters in history. Can’t be taught.

Tomoe, Mako, Yuhana, Nana - hi queen of huge jumps!!

So in short, @Joekaz Japan is flooded with talent in seniors right now. Yes some are more expressive than others but they’re all the best in something.

 

[Skatesocs]

Kaori - Best 2A, best 3Lo of all time.

Wait, what?

 

[Dawn825]

Tomoe, Mako, Yuhana, Nana - hi queen of huge jumps!!

Speaking of, why weren't they at Japan Open or Carnival on Ice?

Is Rika (or Yuzu for that matter) scheduled to compete at all before the GP?

 

[Skatesocs]

Is Rika (or Yuzu for that matter) scheduled to compete at all before the GP?

As has been mentioned, Rika, if she doesn't WD, will be at Asian Open.

 

[Apple1078]

I don't know how many times I've watched Wakaba's Lion King from Japan Open by now. I hope we get to see that in Beijing!

 

[Joekaz]

Wakaba and Satoko are my favorite skaters since Mao and their program versatility is rivaled only by the ice dancers among today’s skaters. For Wakaba Scheherazade, Gypsy Dance, Skyfall, Bird Set Free, Lion King are all among the best programs of all time, and Satoko has several best programs of all time too (Firedance, the Planets, MOAG, Song for a Little Sparrow, Inverno Porteño, Tosca).

But that doesn’t mean the others are box checkers. Compared to any other country the explosive diversity of the top crop in Japan is just unbelievable. Yes Russia has the amazing technical content and consistency right now but most of them don’t have the skating skills + expressiveness to pull off a Japanese ladies’ program. Only Kostornaia, Gubanova, Usacheva, Sinitsyna would stand a chance.

————

Rika - um first ever 3A+3T, first ever 8 triple free skate, 4S, 1 handed-cartwheel hello? Unbelievable talent. Amazing body control and dance ability on ice. Not even to mention the perfect 3Lz and 3F, so so rare.

Kaori - one of the fastest skaters of all time. Best 2A, best 3Lo of all time. So consistent. One handed biellman? Guillotine spiral? Yes!!

Rino - amazing finish and glide in all her movements. And so confident in the jumps to backload all her combos - consistency Queen.

Mana - amazing speed, and when she’s on she’s equal in jumping to the best in the country. Let’s be honest in Russia her Japan open free skate would go 150+

Mai Mihara - knee bend. I don’t even need to say anything else. Well I guess 3S too.

Marin - ridiculously good expressiveness, one of the most charismatic skaters in history. Can’t be taught.

Tomoe, Mako, Yuhana, Nana - hi queen of huge jumps!!

So in short, @Joekaz Japan is flooded with talent in seniors right now. Yes some are more expressive than others but they’re all the best in something.

I didn't say Rino was a box checker. I said she had special talent, along with Satoko and Wakaba. And I was using the term relative to those 3 exceptional skaters. I wasn't comparing to other countries.

 

[Joekaz]

Wait, what?

I don't understand that either. When she commits to it, Wakaba has a better 2A than Kaori. It is more vertical and explosive, with more relative height. That is what you traditionally want in a 2A. Kaori, on the other hand, uses her speed to jump out to cover great distance. I never remember excessive distance being a big deal for a 2A. It is a jump to show off your jumping ability with height. Kaori's is impressive, but in a different way. I prefer the traditional 2A.

 

[Skatesocs]

I don't understand that either. When she commits to it, Wakaba has a better 2A than Kaori. It is more vertical and explosive, with more relative height. That is what you traditionally want in a 2A. Kaori, on the other hand, uses her speed to jump out to cover great distance. I never remember excessive distance being a big deal for a 2A. It is a jump to show off your jumping ability with height. Kaori's is impressive, but in a different way. I prefer the traditional 2A.

Yes, and a better triple loop too. It gets more pop, and has better air position, while still covering great distance. Kaori's is still impressive with its distance, and she does it out of many different transitions, but there's something that grates about the rest of it. All of Wakaba's edge jumps are better in fact. I know it's been a slow burn, but it makes sense she was able to get that amazing 3A where Kaori hasn't (at least as of now).

Best triple loop ever has to be Miki Ando's though. https://youtu.be/z4AVPUpVBbU?t=144

 

[alexocfp]

One of life’s great mysteries is how a 6 star athlete like Kaori doesn’t have a 3A or quads.

Kaori is so athletically talented, she should have a 5A.

 

[Skatesocs]

One of life’s great mysteries is how a 6 star athlete like Kaori doesn’t have a 3A or quads.

Kaori is so athletically talented, she should have a 5A.

3A and the higher jumps all need specific talent and technique though. Kaori jumps very long and goes into the jumps with a ton of speed, but maybe she just hasn't been able to change the habit of jumping very long but not proportionally high. Which would be translate into trouble for jumps that need more air time, like the 3A and the quads. (this is me just spitballing currently, and I suspect I'll literally watch a ton of Kaori performances at some time to figure out why, if she really never gets that 3A this season lol)