Nitpicking: Asada vs. Kim

[lyton]

In the LP, with four spins and step sequence and spiral, over all Mao will get more or less 1 point over Yuna.
With the rest 7 jumps, if Mao put her 3A in, they will have the same base value of their jumps.
And to the GOEs, I think Yuna's would higher than Mao's for sure.
Because Mao will recieve at least 1 negtive GOE, and Yuna's jump is textbook.
For the PCS, It's hard to say, maybe sometimes Mao's is higher, maybe sometimes yuna.
So if they both go through the LP clean, I think Yuna have 65 percent to win.
In the SP, if both of them skate clean, Yuan definately will win this part.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yu Na has sensational jumps, by far the best, she has wonderful spins, excellent footwork, and adequate spirals.

 

[Bennett]

What I like about Mao's spirals is not only the stretch, extention, and felxibility, but also the flow and speed. Before the spiral sequences in her LP, she has a spin and poses to do some choreo. Then she only has three transitional strokes or so to enter the spirals. She completes two curves using that speed. Then she has another four transitional strokes or so before the last curve, which is followed by 3lo right after. It's packed, but the speed comes out of nowhere and is maintained.

I am not specifically trying to make a case that hers is superior to other skaters,' but I just enjoy this spiral sequence very much. I think it wonderful and pleasure to watch.

I was also impressed when I saw Arakawa's Olympic LP where she had very few entrance strokes or transitional steps to enhance and maintain the speed in spirals.

 

[mizu_iro]

Goodness, yes. Bennett, I agree completely. Mao's spiral this year is a thing of beauty in every way. Yu-Na's are improved and still have better speed than Mao's, but I think that Mao's spirals are truly the class of the field.

Considering their current jump layouts, I would say that Mao absolutely needs the triple axel to contend with a clean Yu-Na (whether CoC and CoR were anomalies remains to be seen). With a more-or-less equal jump layout, Yu-Na will beat out Mao on GoE's and give her the edge. The triple axel can compensate for the lower GoE's and perhaps tip the decision in Mao's favor.

On everything else, I'd say they're pretty even. Mao has more flexible, showy spin positions but Yu-Na has better speed and basic positions. Mao's footwork is wonderfully smooth, Yu-Na's is a bit more edgy, but both are very difficult. I enjoy Mao's LP this year more than Yu-Na's LP, but Yu-Na still does a better job of "selling" her performances.

 

[christinaskater]

I totally agree

Mao has the best program.... a masterpiece was her free skate at Skate Canada, intricate and beautiful

But Yu-Na is the consummate artiste par excel lance!

I adore Yu-Na and Mao! I love both of them!

Great to see Yu-Na land a 7 triple program

 

[oleada]

I give the edge to Mao in some things - better programs, slightly better basic skating , better spirals and she does have the triple axel.

They are pretty evenly matched in footwork and spins.

However - at least this season - YuNa seems to be on top. She's landing 7 triple programs, she's using the correct edges in her jumps and she's added the triple loop to her programs again. Mao has seemed to have regressed in this area - she still doesn't have a toe loop (which she was attempting last year) nor a salchow. Additionally, I feel like Yu-Na's much more expressive in her skating. And her arms are to die for! When I'm watching them skate, Yu-Na gets me into her performances, while Mao leaves me impressed with her skills but not particularly moved.

They are both excellent, though, and I love watching both skate!

 

[feraina]

I just re-watched Mao's and Yu-na's best SP's and LP's this season, and here are some random observations:
- Mao has improved a lot in her posture, which not only should improve her PCS, but also give her much better positions in the spirals (besides the lovely Bielmann, she also has a wonderfully stretched classical spiral position) but also the spins, especially the camel and the layback -- Yu-na's camel is fast but not stretched out enough, and her layback is ugly (though neither of them is particularly good at this one, but at least Mao has a nice catchfoot/Bielmann)
- Mao also has better centering in the spins than Yu-na, though Yu-na does the spins faster at the moment
- Mao has more difficult footwork sequences, which she also skates with greater flow and ease -- Yu-na manages to make her less difficult step sequences look more belabored and also slow down quite a lot in both the SP and LP
- Mao is skating with less speed than in the past through her programs, maybe more familiarity/experience with them will help
- They both have beautiful arms, everyone raves about Yu-na's, but Mao's catching up
- They both have great presentation, Yu-na has drama and audience connection on her side, Mao has flow and posture on hers

On the whole, I feel like Mao has been working hard and improving on every aspect of her skating besides the jumps, whereas Yu-na has been working hard on her jumps and relatively speaking neglecting everything else -- perhaps this was wise on the part of both skaters, because Mao is a natural jumper and Yu-na is a natural performer, so this year they've both been working on things that are not their strongest points.

As for the GPF, I'm not sure who I will bet on. I think if they both skate clean (Mao with a 3A), then Mao will win. Both of them have popped jumps in both SP's this season, and Mao's 3A has been MIA. Yu-na has been a little more consistent so far, but her programs are also less difficult/demanding. So Yu-na has consistency on her side, but Mao has the advantage that she has more room to improve in given her natural abilities. If she can bring that 3A back, and add speed to her spins and spirals as she gets more comfortable with her programs, then I think in the end Mao will have greater advantage. I'm just not sure that everything will fall into place for Mao in time for the GPF, especially with the 3A and the Japanese media weighing in on her mind...

 

[Wrlmy]

As for the GPF, I'm not sure who I will bet on. I think if they both skate clean (Mao with a 3A), then Mao will win. Both of them have popped jumps in both SP's this season, and Mao's 3A has been MIA. Yu-na has been a little more consistent so far, but her programs are also less difficult/demanding. So Yu-na has consistency on her side, but Mao has the advantage that she has more room to improve in given her natural abilities. If she can bring that 3A back, and add speed to her spins and spirals as she gets more comfortable with her programs, then I think in the end Mao will have greater advantage. I'm just not sure that everything will fall into place for Mao in time for the GPF, especially with the 3A and the Japanese media weighing in on her mind...

That's a big IF though. At this point, Mao's 3A is just as MIA as Miki's quad. Sure, she's landed several of them in practice, but so has Miki, and the reports are Mao's were underrotated compared to Yukari's. Also, as much as Mao's spins have improved a lot, she was never a good (for a skater of her caliber) spinner to begin with. She can easily pull off beautiful positions, but her spins are rather slow (she admitted spins make her very dizzy in interviews). I am actually disappointed Yuna's spins seem to have deteriorated. She was a very good spinner when she was a junior. Of course, flexibility wasn't there, but she had very fast, well-centered camel/sit/layback spins. I hope Orser is addressing those issues.
Mao will enjoy greater advantage only if she improves aforementioned elements + brings back a triple toe or salchow IMO. I'm sure she can do it, but i'm not sure she's determined enough. I'm not doubting her competitive spirit nor determination by no means. I'm just not sure Mao will be willing to devote tremendous time and energy only to bring back a triple toe, which has only 4.00 value.
Also, I just cannot agree that the lack of difficulty attributes to her consistency. A) her program is difficult, intricate, and fast. B) She is the most consistent lady out there at least score-wise. Her total score has never been lower than 180 since Trophee Bompard last year, which is more than you can say about any other lady, including Mao.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yu Na has superb spins and the judges think so too. They gave her very high marks for her spins so far.

 

[woshisunnya]

I don’t think Mao is a better spinner than Yuna. Actually, I think Yuna’s spin is beeter than Mao’s. I think Yuna has more speed and more centering and varieties position, and for layback spin, I don’t think Yuna’s layback is ugly, I think her layback is quite nice expect the leg position (which not bother me a lot), and I give her credit for improve her sit spin this year.

And for the footwork, I think Mao’s bit more difficult, but Yuna’s are more interesting espically in the SP, it is really well designed with the music and Yuna sell it quite nice. Otherwise, they both have level 3 slst.

Sorry about my poor english, this is my first post and I’m little nervous.

 

[feraina]

Yu Na has superb spins and the judges think so too. They gave her very high marks for her spins so far.

Yu-na's spins are faster this season, maybe more centered compared to the past too, but not more centered than Mao's. Mao's spins are definitely slower -- though she's hitting better camel positions and starting to turn out her free foot and straighten her knee in the layback (or maybe b/c of these things?). When they were juniors, I had the impression Mao was faster AND more centered. Mao has lost quite a bit of speed and flow since her younger days -- I feel like everything is slower besides the step sequence, and it's most obvious in the spins and spirals. I don't know if she can get it back again...

Faster spins means you can also get more positions counted and get higher levels. Maybe Yu-na has been getting higher levels than Mao, but Mao has been getting higher GOE's with her positions (a cursory glance at their SP protocols from their 2nd GP events suports this theory).

Puberty seems to have hit Mao a little harder than Yu-na. Although they're still both quite slim by normal standards, Yu-na seems thinner than ever while Mao seems plumper. I wonder if this has to do with Mao's slowing down this year.

 

[Wrlmy]

Maybe I naver watched any junior competition where Mao supposedly had fast spins. IMO, she is now a much better spinner than she was couple years ago. When she was junior, her spins were very slow, actually her overall skating was much slower than now. She obviously improved those areas, and her spins were much better last season. Feraina, if you are saying her spins look slower than last year, I understand your point perfectly. But, she wasn't a good spinner couple years ago.

 

[feraina]

But, she wasn't a good spinner couple years ago.

I watched Mao and Yu-na's junior videos a while ago, and my impression was that Mao was a stronger spinner. The reason I remember is because I followed both of them then, and I was rooting more for Yu-na, and I remember thinking to myself, "Damn, that Mao girl can both jump and spin!"

I just looked up Mao's 2005 JW SP:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5BKiU-o9h4c
And Yu-na's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIGqzky5inU

Mao wasn't a spinning prodigy like Caroline but she was quite good at 14. She hit some great camel positions, and had seamless changes of positions that didn't slow her down, and she had a lower back arch than Yu-na in the layback. Not that Yu-na was a bad spinner, but overall I think Mao's spins were faster, more centered, and had better basic positions. JMO!

 

[mizu_iro]

Yu-Na has DEFINITELY worked on aspects of her skating besides the jumps. Her basic layback has always been better than Mao's in terms of back arch, and unlike Mao, who only managed to get an okay cannonball position for her sit over the summer, Yu-Na has wonderful, low sit positions on every part of her sit spins now. And it's unfair to say that her spiral has not improved - there's such a huge difference between Cup of China and last year's Worlds.

I don't necessarily think that Yu-Na's footwork is any less difficult than Mao's - Mao has greater flow in her upper body and constant motion of the blade, while Yu-Na has more starts and stops. That's just the way the choreography was done - Mao's is more flowing, while Yu-Na has a ton of start-and-stop moments to the music. I also feel like Yu-Na's footwork is perfectly tailored to the music, whereas Mao could be doing her steps to any pretty piano piece (which applies to their entire programs, incidentally, and may be the reason why Mao got really off at TEB while Yu-Na finished right on time at both CoC and CoR). Yu-Na does carry less speed, but every single one of her basic moves, from twizzles to toe work to edge work, has interesting upper body variations to go along with them. Mao does have both very nice upper body moves and footwork, but they don't seem as integrated.

 

[Wrlmy]

That's interesting! I was more of a Mao fan, and I actually disliked Yuna back then. I was like "who's that unpretty girl in horrible costume?" I think Mao was a descent spinner back then, and I still don't think she's lost any speed. Maybe she looks relatively slower since she's grown? She was extremely slow at Campbell's last year, but that was an unusual exception IMO. If anything, she seems to have lost her height of jumps. I was watching the youtube clip you posted, and I was admiring her height.
And as for Yuna, well I do not enjoy watching her junior competitions. They just break my heart. She looks so small, scared, and sad that I would just feel sorry that I've ever disliked her. She turned out to be a gorgeous skater, but I will always have a soft spot for her. Watching her take a hard fall on triple loop, I was

 

[feraina]

Watching her take a hard fall on triple loop, I was

Yeah, that looked and sounded painful! She definitely looks happier and more joyful on ice nowadays.

 

[fourclover]

Although they're still both quite slim by normal standards, Yu-na seems thinner than ever while Mao seems plumper. I wonder if this has to do with Mao's slowing down this year.

Mao, plump? I thought she was so thin this season. Relative to her frame, her legs are straight and thin and look at her chest. Relative to their body frames I think Mao is thinner.

 

[Bennett]

I have had the same impression with feraina about Mao's spins. When she was junior, I feel that she used to have faster, more centered spins---at least some of them like layback, if not all. I feel it interesting that the growth may have affected spins as well.

Her sit spin position on the right foot seems to be off. But her sit spin on the left foot looks fine.

Since the last season, Mao seems to have been working on spins. She has become significantly faster in her spins than the beninning of the last season. Currently, she sometimes fails to get the intended level, perhaps due to the lack of necessary number of revolutions. But I feel that she would become more consistent in getting the level as she increases the speed and improves in centering.

I hear that Morosov edits the music to ensure that the skater can get the necessary elements done. Although Shizuka had relatively slow spins, she had enough time to get the necessary number of revolutions done. But Mao sometimes seems to be having difficulty getting spins done within the designated time. Towards the end of the last season, her Chopin SP performances looked a bit rushed. I felt that it might have been because she wanted to create more time for spins. But if she increases the speed in her spins, she would be able to get the level within the given time.

I have not been closely following Yuna's spins. So I cannot make any comparison.

But I heartily wish good luck to both Mao and Yuna

 

[ks777]

Yu-Na has DEFINITELY worked on aspects of her skating besides the jumps. Her basic layback has always been better than Mao's in terms of back arch, .

I dont' agree with you there, watch the video above and see Mao's arch on her back.

I don't necessarily think that Yu-Na's footwork is any less difficult than Mao's - Mao has greater flow in her upper body and constant motion of the blade, while Yu-Na has more starts and stops. variations to go along with them. Mao does have both very nice upper body moves and footwork, but they don't seem as integrated.

I don't agree with you there either. I don't know if you are a skater or if you ever skated but if you have been a skater, you would know that how much more difficult to keep your blade moving instead of a lot of stops in between. I get tired just doing simple brackets.

 

[Bennett]

[Yuna] definitely looks happier and more joyful on ice nowadays.

So true, since the last season.

In contrast, Mao seems to have been more nervous than before. I hope that she will not be too nervous at GPF and that we can see happy, joyful Mao again.