The Tutberidze Effect

macy

you should see her in a crown
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Fitst: I don't care about Eteri's income. She deserves it. I hope she earns lots of money :agree: because the figure skaters and their coaches deserve much more! I would like to see high incomes as in other sports!!! I just reacted to Scott's post in wich she really seems like a saint. That's all.

Second: I don't know why you mentioned Plushenko. It seems Plushenko got stuck in the throat of fans of TT. :laugh: Plushenko didn' steal or win his money he worked hard for it. He was an incredible poor guy, you can't say any other skater who was such poor. There are levels he was at the bottom. He collected bottles with his mother if they wanted to eat for example.

Third: He was very wealthy because of his popularity, he won all the time, because he created many incredible shows. He opened his academy on that level, buildings coaches, etc. He could open because he was wealthy. LOL! His income during 2006-2018 : $ 23,5 millions.
But now he invests to the academy he has no profit.

Fourth: You forgot to mention ;) his cheapest lessons is 15 000/ months and he gives grants for the talented children and there are talented children who don't pay at all. Aaand because that is a private academy he must pay for everything but Eteri on the contrary receives everything from the club. This is not a good comparison. :no:

can you point out where in nussnacker's post that said Plushenko didn't earn his money, didn't deserve it, or stole his money? i really don't know why this response was necessary from one sentence mentioning Plushenko was making a lot of money at what he does.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
It was actually you who said "she is saint", as a joke, I presume, and I said, "she is Cruella de Vil", as a joke as well. You surely don't want to wage war over which exaggeration (of what the other side does or says) for the purpose of fun and joke is more/less serious, do you? :dance2::rofl2:

It seems I lost my sense of humour... But you know, my poor english is not enough to know who is Cruella de Vil. I checked it already. In my country we can watch the movies in hungarian language with not the original voices of the actors. The famous stars have same voices in every movie for years . For example Woody Allen knows that Hungarian actor who gave his voice to him. He praised him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWDPwKEoymo&t=1m


So Cruella de Vil in Hungarian : Szörnyella de Frász :laugh: what is similar . I can say the translater did a great job!
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
can you point out where in nussnacker's post that said Plushenko didn't earn his money, didn't deserve it, or stole his money? i really don't know why this response was necessary from one sentence mentioning Plushenko was making a lot of money at what he does.

Oh, yes we can argue on everything..why did Scott say that , why did Nusnacker say that, why did I say this? What is the different? There were many questionable things in every post. I don't think I was the Cruella de Vil in this matter. :laugh: Solely.
 

macy

you should see her in a crown
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Oh, yes we can argue on everything..why did Scott say that , why did Nusnacker say that, why did I say this? What is the different? There were many questionable things in every post. I don't think I was the Cruella de Vil in this matter. :laugh: Solely.

my point was there was nothing insulting said towards him, so i'm confused as to why it received such a defensive response.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Fitst: I don't care about Eteri's income. She deserves it. I hope she earns lots of money :agree: because the figure skaters and their coaches deserve much more! I would like to see high incomes as in other sports!!! I just reacted to Scott's post in wich she really seems like a saint. That's all.

Second: I don't know why you mentioned Plushenko. It seems Plushenko got stuck in the throat of fans of TT. :laugh: Plushenko didn' steal or win his money he worked hard for it. He was an incredible poor guy, you can't say any other skater who was such poor. There are levels he was at the bottom. He collected bottles with his mother if they wanted to eat for example.

Third: He was very wealthy because of his popularity, he won all the time, because he created many incredible shows. He opened his academy on that level, buildings coaches, etc. He could open because he was wealthy. LOL! His income during 2006-2018 : $ 23,5 millions.
But now he invests to the academy he has no profit.

Fourth: You forgot to mention ;) his cheapest lessons is 15 000/ months and he gives grants for the talented children and there are talented children who don't pay at all. Aaand because that is a private academy he must pay for everything but Eteri on the contrary receives everything from the club. This is not a good comparison. :no:

Plushenko absolutely deserves all his money, I never said otherwise.
I just found you mocking her because of that coat to be a little funny, considering Plushenko loves luxury as well, and couldn't help to point out that contradiction, that's all.

Again, loving and buying expensive things isn't something to be ashamed about. It's about tastes, what makes you feel better, and I don't think Plushenko or Mishin or anyone else should be shamed because they own quality expensive clothes.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
my point was there was nothing insulting said towards him, so i'm confused as to why it received such a defensive response.

Ok. :giveup: Maybe I was too sensitive but I didn't understand why did she mention Plushenko at all in this matter? :giveup:

- - - Updated - - -

Plushenko absolutely deserves all his money, I never said otherwise.
I just found you mocking her because of that coat to be a little funny, considering Plushenko loves luxury as well, and couldn't help to point out that contradiction, that's all.

Again, loving and buying expensive things isn't something to be ashamed about. It's about tastes, what makes you feel better, and I don't think Plushenko or Mishin or anyone else should be shamed because they own quality expensive clothes.

:giveup: :)
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
% from prize money are really not going to suffice to earn you anything.
Getting 30k rubles (~500$?) per lesson as Plushenko does, certainly will.

That 40% being thrown around after another „TSL Insider info“ seems really untrustworthy to me.
Their „insides“ are often as far from the truth as 5G conspiracies. Last time they got us another inside, that Eteri was about to make a statement about Aliona on channel 1 the week it happened, and oh, who would’ve known, that was another lie.
Same with info about Adelia Petrosyan leaving the group.

As a top coach you can earn money, from premiums government pays if your students get podium. I assume, that’s were majority of the income comes from.

While the amount is unknown of what Eteri or Sambo gets, Brian Orser gave an interview where it was mentioned that Medvedeva was surprised he didn't take a cut of her show earnings when she switched to him. So it does sound like it may not be an industry standard situation that Eteri is doing. But that's a situation where I say if the skater and/or their parents is willing to pay that amount or percentage then that's their business with Eteri. If that's part of the cause for skaters leaving then perhaps Eteri needs to consider amending her policy, but its been said in other threads skaters like Trusova/Shcherbakova getting big-time sponsorship deals shortly after or even before turning senior is not the norm, usually figure skaters get endorsement deals only after big wins like the Olympics (see Zagitova) or prolonged success at winning top competitions (see Medvedeva) and historically you don't see many skaters continuing after they get the big win so a coach getting percentage probably means little unless there is some type of agreement for compensation even after a skater retires.


Again, if she was only after the money, opening a private school Plushenko style .

She might be able to do that now, but when Eteri started she was not in the same position as Plushenko is right now (or was when he started his school).
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
While the amount is unknown of what Eteri or Sambo gets, Brian Orser gave an interview where it was mentioned that Medvedeva was surprised he didn't take a cut of her show earnings when she switched to him. So it does sound like it may not be an industry standard situation that Eteri is doing. But that's a situation where I say if the skater and/or their parents is willing to pay that amount or percentage then that's their business with Eteri. If that's part of the cause for skaters leaving then perhaps Eteri needs to consider amending her policy, but its been said in other threads skaters like Trusova/Shcherbakova getting big-time sponsorship deals shortly after or even before turning senior is not the norm, usually figure skaters get endorsement deals only after big wins like the Olympics (see Zagitova) or prolonged success at winning top competitions (see Medvedeva) and historically you don't see many skaters continuing after they get the big win so a coach getting percentage probably means little unless there is some type of agreement for compensation even after a skater retires.
She might be able to do that now, but when Eteri started she was not in the same position as Plushenko is right now (or was when he started his school).

That’s ultimately the difference between Canadian system and Russian system.
Brian takes a fee per lesson + each other individual coach does + ice time etc
So his student will pay for everything and not share any prize money.

Some NA coaches will get you oh for everything AND take a portion of your prize money.

Russian system (which Eteri and all other Russian coaches use) is that everything is fully subsidized, but the government takes 30% of the earnings.
It’s not her invention, it’s how it works in Russia generally in state funded teams.

Besides, just recently her student gave an interview where he said, she never asked him to pay (when he wasn’t on funding), when he /other students didn’t have means, and even gave him clothes.
That’s not to tell that “she’s a saint”, but I don’t think it’s solely the money that’s motivating her.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Thank you for the summary, @Nussnacker, but just a small clarification point.

I do not know any North American coach today who takes a cut of earnings. They did in the past. Frank Carroll famously did, but I think even he halted the practice in his later years.

And I think every coach, Russian, American, Canadian, has skaters of stories with kindness of waiving fees, giving places to live, helping students. I know Rafael A. did for Adam Rippon when he first arrived. And good for all of them:clap:

Sorry for the slight diversion....
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Thank you for the summary, @Nussnacker, but just a small clarification point.

I do not know any North American coach today who takes a cut of earnings. They did in the past. Frank Carroll famously did, but I think even he halted the practice in his later years.

And I think every coach, Russian, American, Canadian, has skaters of stories with kindness of waiving fees, giving places to live, helping students. I know Rafael A. did for Adam Rippon when he first arrived. And good for all of them:clap:

Sorry for the slight diversion....

I was thinking precisely about Frank when I wrote that. I’m sure it’s different for each NA coach, but I just wanted to give another example :)
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
That "system is nothing unknown even here, it was discussed several times here. The prize for an hour with a top coach in North America (Western Europe would be different) is very costly. There is still that example with Brian about 100-110 $ per hour (which is in fact about 10 to 15 years old information, so today's price can be even higher). In comparison the price for an hour in a team like Khrustalnyi is about 4-5 $ per hour (which is still not a small abount considering the difference in the purchase power). The members of the national team have their costs paid by state (something is paid by local divisions of FFKKR). And then there are the money from shows etc., from which you pay some share to the coach (not just Eteri, Mishin and others get their share as well). The difference is that in NA you pay for the big money whether you are succesful or not, in the "russian system" only the best who made their name (and who paid relatively low for their training before) get the invitations to events like all those "Something on the Ice" shows.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
:scratch2: How can you know this? WE all know she is a saint and she is working for the work :biggrin:. I just don't understand how can she buy the Louis Vuitton goods and how can she pay the botox treatments?

So you're the one who said EG is a saint. Awww.

Please remember we were all Plushenko fans back in the day when he was the best men's figure skater in the world for many years. I don't like how he's breaking up greatest ladies figure skating Dynasty ever. I'm not a fan of how he is going about this. But that doesn't take away how I think at his peak he was the best men's figure skater ever.

EG supporters admit her faults. She is quick to anger, wrongly harshly criticizes her students who she made great when they abruptly leave her. She has feuds with people in the media some probably justified some probably not. There I said it. What I like most about eteri is she came from nothing and became this huge coach with a dynasty in one discipline never seen before in the sport by one coach. I just wish she would act better when her students leave her. But the wounds cut deep in her heart let's be honest. She is only human after all.
 

ginglinicecubes

Spectator
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Hi there.
Let me challenge your statements a little bit.

- the internal competition in that team isn’t really something exclusive to them. As you yourself point out, Russia is super dense when it comes to talent, hence whether or not they are part of Team Tutberidze, all girls from all coaching Teams fight absolutely the same way for those 3 spots. In the end, it doesn’t matter who belongs to which team, the reality of only 3 spots pushes them as nothing else.

- Khrustalny „gets the cream“ not because they’re negligent to their students, but because they work for it. There are multiple examples when skaters in that team progressed incredibly fast.
Aliona was considering retiring after placing 17th at JrNats, or trying to make it to Eteri. In less than a year‘s time she placed 3rd at Senior Nats and 2nd at JGP and JrWorlds. She left them as a European and GPF champion.
Alina came as someone who was inferior to Alisa Lozko (both previously trained together in Izhevsk). While Alisa managed to make in to Mishin, Alina didn’t, but was taken on by Eteri.
Few years down the road, Alina owns a grand slam and is the highest paid russian figure skater, while Alisa retired without making it into senior international events.
And there are many more examples.

- The technique not being reworked, negligence
Well, there are many examples of visible improvements as well. At the top of my head: Aliona’s 3Lz became way better, Alina’s too, especially in Juniors. In 18-19 season Alina’s Axel was a bit off axis, that got fixed last season. Funnily enough, I had the same conversation in 18-19 with the user here telling me it won’t get fixed. But it turned out I was right in the end.

Sambo 70 has a few schools around Moscow, I guess there are about ten or so. So it is kind of the most popular school in Russia, since it is easily accessible, and then TT can get the cream and sort the best young athletes out of the good and promising ones. Plus it has the reputation of a school that can turn hardworking and obedient girls into true stars, once these athletes can sustain the whole package of training for 8 to 10 hours daily despite all sorts of problems and emotional pressure, so those who can't do that won't join the club.
He-he, it would be weird if the girls you've mentioned wouldn't improve their technique at all after a few years of hard work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be so confident about Alina's double axel, it still looks quite unstable and "by-the-breadth-of-a-hair" to me. Pretty much similar to the one Medvedeva did in the '17-18 season, lacking height and power.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Sambo 70 has a few schools around Moscow, I guess there are about ten or so. So it is kind of the most popular school in Russia, since it is easily accessible, and then TT can get the cream and sort the best young athletes out of the good and promising ones. Plus it has the reputation of a school that can turn hardworking and obedient girls into true stars, once these athletes can sustain the whole package of training for 8 to 10 hours daily despite all sorts of problems and emotional pressure, so those who can't do that won't join the club.
He-he, it would be weird if the girls you've mentioned wouldn't improve their technique at all after a few years of hard work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be so confident about Alina's double axel, it still looks quite unstable and "by-the-breadth-of-a-hair" to me. Pretty much similar to the one Medvedeva did in the '17-18 season, lacking height and power.

It's not that only skatersd from Sambo schools would go to Eteri. The reputation eteri's school has didn't appear out of the blue sky, which somehow people who argue that "she just has a plenty of talents to choose from" tend to forget (deliberately). Eteri doesn't have somehow privileged position among other coaches and teams, definitely she didn't have it a few years before among the names like Mishin, Buianova, etc., not to mention that Sambo is a dwarf beside CSKA. As for the schools, of the 3A, only Sasha studied in Sambo school, both Anya and Aliona went to regular schools. The fact that many skaters (and their parents) aspire to train there comes from the success of the team at the first place. And once again, many skaters weren't exactly the stars not even in their age category when they joined Sambo, so it¨s not like they would invite only winners of junior/novice competitions.
 

eliana

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
the internal competition in that team isn’t really something exclusive to them. As you yourself point out, Russia is super dense when it comes to talent, hence whether or not they are part of Team Tutberidze, all girls from all coaching Teams fight absolutely the same way for those 3 spots. In the end, it doesn’t matter who belongs to which team, the reality of only 3 spots pushes them as nothing else.


I think the rules should change for Russia. You can't leave home athletes with world records just because the skating federation has only 3 spots available for each country. At least for this period when Russian girls are so good. It is unfair for these little girls who work so hard to stay home and miss the opportunity to perform.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Sambo 70 has a few schools around Moscow, I guess there are about ten or so. So it is kind of the most popular school in Russia, since it is easily accessible, and then TT can get the cream and sort the best young athletes out of the good and promising ones. Plus it has the reputation of a school that can turn hardworking and obedient girls into true stars, once these athletes can sustain the whole package of training for 8 to 10 hours daily despite all sorts of problems and emotional pressure, so those who can't do that won't join the club.
He-he, it would be weird if the girls you've mentioned wouldn't improve their technique at all after a few years of hard work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be so confident about Alina's double axel, it still looks quite unstable and "by-the-breadth-of-a-hair" to me. Pretty much similar to the one Medvedeva did in the '17-18 season, lacking height and power.

I would argue Alina’s 2A is still better than Medvedeva’s. It’s certainly not her best jump, but it’s still a good jump, she uses way harder transitions into it and out of it, which makes it harder to execute, while she never loses speed going into and out of it.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Nevertheless, I wouldn't be so confident about Alina's double axel, it still looks quite unstable and "by-the-breadth-of-a-hair" to me. Pretty much similar to the one Medvedeva did in the '17-18 season, lacking height and power.

Alina's 2A at worlds 19 was measured 41cm in height and was 1 cm less than the maximum measured on that competition (or at least the ones that they showed in the broadcast). For a double axel, it's normal height.
 
Top