2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 160 | Golden Skate

2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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What level of presentation can we talk about if (for example) Gubanova breaks off her presentation and begins this long-long, focused-focused entry into lutz? (and than she makes it super-ugly - suddenly pounding her foot on the ice like a hammer). That's it - the magic is over.

If you jump well, you can make beautiful entrances and - which especially affects the presentation - beautiful exits from jumps that are now part of the choreography of top skaters.
One of my few complaints with Gubanova's skating is her ugly jump technique on her toe jumps. Not just the hammer toe pick into the ice, but how she starts her rotation with her upper body and shoulders. It's a shame she never improved her technique in that regard.
 
Bolero is such a beatiful and powerful piece of music. I think people constantly repeating how much they hate it have serious mind problems.

Some people mentioned Kostner's Bolero here. In my opinion Kostner's program looks archaic, slow, empty, amateurish and extremely weak in comparison with Valieva's mind blowing FS program.
I think they both suck, honestly. I want to like Kamila’s so bad but I just can’t. Bolero is only suitable for ice dance and very emotionally mature skaters, and even they shouldn’t do it, in my opinion. The whole concept is mature, the original choreographed movements to it in classical dance are much more isolated. The style of Bolero dance from Spain is very slow and this melody is made to progress slowly. Adding jumps and spins at the beginning completely ruins the point of progressiveness. I don’t understand why anyone would think that it translates well to ice.
 
I think they both suck, honestly. I want to like Kamila’s so bad but I just can’t. Bolero is only suitable for ice dance and very emotionally mature skaters, and even they shouldn’t do it, in my opinion. The whole concept is mature, the original choreographed movements to it in classical dance are much more isolated. The style of Bolero dance from Spain is very slow and this melody is made to progress slowly. Adding jumps and spins at the beginning completely ruins the point of progressiveness. I don’t understand why anyone would think that it translates well to ice.
I had this same issue until I saw it as representative of the modern ballet. It makes much more sense that way to me to where I think it's a brilliant program when Valieva performs it. Try to view it as a higher tier interpretation of modern ballet and not what you are accustomed to see with Bolero.
 
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Skaters of the past did not have the athleticism of the skaters today. So they needed to focus on choreography to distract the audience.

Not true. Skaters of the past focused on choreography, conveying emotion through movement, performance, music, connection and athleticism to give something special to diverse audiences who respond to different qualities of skating. That's what most of my favorite skaters, including Alena Kostornaia and Anna Shcherbekova, still do today.

To suggest that Kostner, and other artists or divas on ice in the past, tried to distract the audience, is laughable.
 
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I thought it was just me who thought that Kostner's Bolero was awful. It was so slow! OMG it was slow!!!! After a bunch of people trashed Kamila's version I went to look up Kostner's and I was like "WTF!" Her jumping was not great either. The version I watched had these teeny tiny jumps!
That was the beauty of it. It absolutely fitted the music, Carolina slowed down her movements to match it, that was an artistic choice and looked glorious in my opinion. Carolina was a very fast skater actually. There's no doubt that Kamila's interpretation is a lot more athletically demanding, but I just don't like it, everytime I see it, I have no idea what's going on. I don't even get the snake theme.
 
Not true. Skaters of the past focused on choreography, conveying emotion through movement, performance, music, connection and athleticism to give something special to diverse audiences who respond to different qualities of skating. That's what most of my favorite skaters, including Alena Kostornaia and Anna Scherbekova, still do today.

To suggest that Kostner, and other artists or divas on ice, in the past tried to distract the audience, is laughable.
AKA, distract the audience from the fact that you have athletic shortcomings. Haha

If those skaters of the past had quads or 3A available, they would have focused their skating on the jumps as well.

You just didn’t have athletes like Kamila and Trusova for most of skating’s existence.
 
I think they both suck, honestly. I want to like Kamila’s so bad but I just can’t. Bolero is only suitable for ice dance and very emotionally mature skaters, and even they shouldn’t do it, in my opinion. The whole concept is mature, the original choreographed movements to it in classical dance are much more isolated. The style of Bolero dance from Spain is very slow and this melody is made to progress slowly. Adding jumps and spins at the beginning completely ruins the point of progressiveness. I don’t understand why anyone would think that it translates well to ice.
DaniG has put lady's figure skating PTSD on me already with that damn Bolero...I was literally shaking when I heard that music...
 
AKA, distract the audience from the fact that you have athletic shortcomings. Haha
I wouldn’t really call them short comings. When the first triple jump was landed, it was revolutionary. Now skaters do triple jumps all the time. That doesn’t make triple jumps any harder or easier to do.

As time progresses, people will do more things and better things then they could before. That’s just how it works.
 
AKA, distract the audience from the fact that you have athletic shortcomings. Haha

Nope. Not at all. For Carolina's time and era, she had all the athletic proficiency that was needed. Focusing on all the aspects of figure skating, not just athleticism, is what gives the sport its individuality and beauty
If those skaters of the past had quads or 3A available, they would have focused their skating on the jumps as well.
Not so. In the early 1990s, starting in 1988 with Midori Ito, there were two women single skaters at the top of the field doing 3A, to the point that for several years, some of the other top female skaters were actively working on a 3A, including Kristi Yamaguchi. Ultimately, Kristi won 1992 Olympics over Ito and Harding, not just in that event, but other times too. She won by developing her athleticism *and* her artistry.

Bringing it back to topic -- again, their various qualities including artistry and athleticism are what draw me to Alena and Anna.
 
I wouldn’t really call them short comings. When the first triple jump was landed, it was revolutionary. Now skaters do triple jumps all the time. That doesn’t make triple jumps any harder or easier to do.

As time progresses, people will do more things and better things then they could before. That’s just how it works.
Exactly, that’s why I welcome the new wave that are pioneers and innovators.

And in a decade or 2, hopefully what we are seeing now is obsolete.

The next generation innovating is how it should be.
 
Definitely one from the old guard that could be competitive today.
Yeah... I dislike Kostner's Bolero too. During Sochi, compared to Worlds 2013, she was significantly slower going into her jumps in order to land them. Always laugh when it's brought up as "artistry" (including specifically changing the layout to make it easier to land and removing all transitions lol).

Asada yes. Kim probably not either, as much as the jump quality and talent was great, she was too injured to learn more.
 
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