2021 Skate America: Pairs Short Program

[anonymoose_au]

I've only managed to catch up on T/M so far, but wow they were so good! It's strange how they can do the SBS jumps so well in SP, but have such trouble in FS... although I guess it's a combo jump. I hope they can do it!

I'm watching the Artistic Gymnastics Worlds right now but once it ends I'll catch up on the rest.

 

[mikeko666]

It's like with political scoring and 'in-the-bag' scoring. Clearly, the quality of the American teams is exciting, but this is the same-old, same-old dismissive attitude toward American pairs teams. And I'm tired of it, because it's been going on for far too long, even when for example, Evora/Ladwig outskated all 3 Canadian teams at the 2010 Olympics, they were kept behind all of them in the sp, and behind two of them in the fp. There are plenty of other examples. Now that the U.S. has teams with top-notch competitive qualities, they are still being treated like second-class citizens.

There's no way that R/K have the speed, power, maturity and quality elements of all three American teams. Yes, the American teams have to bring it, and they aren't allowed any mistakes whatsoever, and even then their scores will be managed, because this is an overly political sport.

Physically, the American teams are aesthetically more pleasing than B/K, but B/K obviously have overall better technique on jumps and throws, when they ace them.

Miura/Kihara have more speed, bigger rink coverage and less distance with each other than Knierim/Frazier. Simply, M/K have better skating skills. It's you that is being political.
Miura/Kihara (filmed by a spectator)
Knierim/Frazier (filmed by a spectator)

 

[skylark]

I'm curious to know why there wasn't a deduction for the SBS jump - is it because Chelsea kept both feet on the ice?

Kristi Yamaguchi was asked once about a similar mistake, the question was "when is it a fall?" She said when one butt cheek hits the ice. I've found that's usually the case, when the tech caller rules it not to be a fall. So the effect is the same as what you said, she kept both feet on the ice, and neither butt cheek hit the ice.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Kristi Yamaguchi was asked once about a similar mistake, the question was "when is it a fall?" She said when one butt cheek hits the ice. I've found that's usually the case, when the tech caller rules it not to be a fall. So the effect is the same as what you said, she kept both feet on the ice, and neither butt cheek hit the ice.

They've changed the definition of a fall recently. 'A fall' is when majority of body weight is on the ice, so some tech panel may consider that as a fall. My guess is, if in that falling position she had, her both hands were hitting the ice at the same time (to prevent her butt being on the ice), it would have been called as a fall.

 

[anonymoose_au]

OK caught up on the pairs (with another watch of T/M for good luck )

The first group was a bit messy but wow Alexa is fire! Love her costume and attitude. She and Brandon are a great pair

All the second group couples brought it, I especially enjoyed R/K, he especially seemed to be having a blast and their throw Lutz was really nice!

I also thought Jessica and Brian really nailed it, love the costumes, they look ready to rock.

Sasha and Dima were good too, although what happened to Sasha's costume, I know it's not really accurate but the unitard from Test Skates was boss. Bring that back I say.

Anyway I really need to get to bed because I think it starts early (for me) tomorrow and I don't want to miss it!

See you tomorrow!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Miura/Kihara have more speed, bigger rink coverage and less distance with each other than Knierim/Frazier. Simply, M/K have better skating skills. It's you that is being political.
Miura/Kihara (filmed by a spectator)
Knierim/Frazier (filmed by a spectator)

Wow, the ice rink looks small comparing to the other ones. That may be the reason why so many men were struggling, especially because they are skating with much better speed and jump (3A and quads) with much better distance. I think it will be hard for some of the women too, but I hope it will be different And I hope ISU will standardize ice rink size for a grand prix competitions (to be bigger than this one)

 

[elektra blue]

random comments catching up with pairs:

sentimental pop songs are already annoyng in singles, in pairs they're underwelming. Miura/Kihara are great and i totally fell in love with them and they also won the best K&C reaction award of the event Boikova/Koslovskii are not in top form yet and their Swan Lake is uninspired, but Sasha's dress rocks and she can give face. Why is Tarasova a statue?

 

[skylark]

They've changed the definition of a fall recently. 'A fall' is when majority of body weight is on the ice, so some tech panel may consider that as a fall. My guess is, if in that falling position she had, her both hands were hitting the ice at the same time (to prevent her butt being on the ice), it would have been called as a fall.

I've been wondering why Brandon's similar stumble was ruled as a fall. Did both his hands hit the ice at the same time? Or can you enlighten me otherwise? I'd have to look at it again, but that makes sense. I really hope, though, that my question doesn't prompt more outrage about the judging. After all, figure skating isn't the only sport where fans get enraged over what they think is the absolutely wrong call from an umpire (referee, judge, etc.)

 

[MaiKatze]

I so hope that T/M will hold it together in the free.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I've been wondering why Brandon's similar stumble was ruled as a fall. Did both his hands hit the ice at the same time? Or can you enlighten me otherwise? I'd have to look at it again, but that makes sense. I really hope, though, that my question doesn't prompt more outrage about the judging. After all, figure skating isn't the only sport where fans get enraged over what they think is the absolutely wrong call from an umpire (referee, judge, etc.)

Yes, in his case they called it as a fall, because he supported majority of his body weight by the ice surface, through his both hands being on the ice at one exact moment of time. In her case it was more like weight on one hand, then transfer of the weight to another foot and another hand... so they gave her benefit of a doubt and called it as a 'really bad touch down and step out'. Because the element looked as bad as his it received the same negative GOE, just not a deduction for the fall.

 

[dorispulaski]

Tarasova is a statue because the program concept is Galatea, a statue who comes to life in Greek mythology.

Galatea (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In other words, they told their story so the viewer could understand it without having it explained in a 3 page handout!

Great job, guys!


I do recall a worse men's splat fest, World's 1992 in Oakland. It was a very narrow rink and in an Olympic year, the guys had been training to fill out an Olympic size rink. Candeloro was a huge disaster, skating to Conan OST. Even Kurt Browning, who won silver, was a total mess.

 

[skylark]

Tarasova is a statue because the program concept is Galatea, a statue who comes to life in Greek mythology.

Galatea (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In other words, they told their story so the viewer could understand it without having it explained in a 3 page handout!

Great job, guys!

As I said ), in my post #415 this thread. Knowing the referential story really helped me put a shape to the program and understand what they were doing besides Tarasova being 'frozen' at beginning and end. Thanks for the link. I feel like commentators used to give a one or two-sentence blurb about some skaters' programs. I don't know if any did that here. I watched Peacock, no commentary.

I do recall a worse men's splat fest, World's 1992 in Oakland. It was a very narrow rink and in an Olympic year, the guys had been training to fill out an Olympic size rink. Candeloro was a huge disaster, skating to Conan OST. Even Kurt Browning, who won silver, was a total mess.

Good history lesson! I wasn't watching then. But rink size does somewhat explain the men's disaster last night.

 

[moonvine]

The location should have no bearing on the score..

I like the American teams but they weren't clean here today.

C/J looked clean to me.

 

[moonvine]

The location should have no bearing on the score..

I like the American teams but they weren't clean here today.

Yes it SHOULD have no bearing but does regardless.

 

[moonvine]

Yeah, Miura/Kihara's GOE were definitely too high for their twist and throw. They even got +4s and a +5 for their throw. It's not as if they have some of the biggest throws the competition, and it wasn't super well landed. It wasn't a better throw than Knierim/Frazier's. The storyline of Japan having a good pair team is an easy one to get behind, and they are skating well, but the scores don't need to be excessive. At the same time, Boikova/Kozlovskii's score was too high too. They literally jumped one at a time and got no minus GOE for it.

Knierim/Frazier opened the door though. They gave away a lot of points. It's promising they could score 66 points with all the missed levels, etc, but they can do so much better. Alexa was fantastic and fierce, but Brandon was hesitant right from the start on the somewhat botched twist. Credit to Alexa for not getting rattled by it, but Brandon can do a lot better and be more aggressive. I have to remind myself it's their first official GP ever together, still one of their first ever international events.

What was going on with the missed levels?

 

[Ruthypegs]

Kristi Yamaguchi was asked once about a similar mistake, the question was "when is it a fall?" She said when one butt cheek hits the ice. I've found that's usually the case, when the tech caller rules it not to be a fall. So the effect is the same as what you said, she kept both feet on the ice, and neither butt cheek hit the ice.

Thanks for the explanation, @skylark

 

[moonvine]

I've only managed to catch up on T/M so far, but wow they were so good! It's strange how they can do the SBS jumps so well in SP, but have such trouble in FS... although I guess it's a combo jump. I hope they can do it!

I'm watching the Artistic Gymnastics Worlds right now but once it ends I'll catch up on the rest.

So many sports, so little time. Add American football to the mix for me today.

 

[Azikin]

sentimental pop songs are already annoyng in singles, in pairs they're underwelming.

And probably the worst Hallelujah cover I've ever heard...

 

[skylark]

Thanks for the explanation, @skylark

You're welcome. I hope you read @Baron Vladimir's updating of my answer in posts #424 and #430.

It seems the rules may have changed a bit since Kristi Yamaguchi competed.

 

[gold12345]

What was going on with the missed levels?

Just some little tentativeness from Knierim & Frazier that cost them levels on several elements, even though overall their skate felt good. Alexa looked awesome; she is fire out there. Their throw triple flip was gigantic and landed right on the music. When they are on, their throws are standout elements even against the best Russian pairs. I have high expectations for this team, but they need to be allowed to go through the normal ebbs and flows that all pairs go through.

K/F can score around 70 points with a major mistake at this point, but they had too many missed levels. It looked like Brandon held back on the twist and it didn't get its normal pop, so they kinda had to save it. They usually do it better with much higher GOE. And it's the first time he's botched a 3T like that. As a newer pair, they've been working on their jump timing and entrances to match each other, so that's affecting them somewhat. But a 3T is easy for them, so they need to put the blinders on and trust themselves. They did jump much more in sync here than last season.

I think "House of the Rising Sun" is fantastic for them. I'm sorry to the person above who has to remove their hearing aid to listen to rock music, but this really is a great choice- the program feels fresh, energized, and fiery. It suits them and it brings out positive qualities in both of them and they're skating noticeably faster than last season. I'll take this over a recycled Hallelujah, but we keep getting recycled Hallelujahs because it's emotional and easy music to skate to.