2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[sclloyd]

Why do you say this? So far the senior GP seemes to be functioning like normal, unless there's still a chance Russian skaters wont be allowed into France?

Sasha, Anna, Kamila, Aliona, Daria, Maia, Liza, Ksenia each vying for 6 spots. If Sasha, Anna, Kamila all win their events and Liza goes 2/2, that means the rest aside from Ksenia will go 3/2, and there will likely be a tiebreaker based on score between each of Maia, Daria, and Aliona for the 6th spot. Barring any upsets from non-Russians, at least.

 

[Amei]

I was more referring to the argument that these senior women are children and hence they are especially vulnerable to the judges.

Either they are senior women or they are children. I think that if we are going to start viewing them as children due to their ages, then that means the most appropriate place for them is in juniors.

Personally, I don’t think it is at all possible classify any of these skaters as ‘children’. They are either 18 or 17. That’s pretty much adult age.

Would their performances not be 'judged' in juniors? The only thing forcing them to juniors would do is eradicate the casual fan from viewing the performances.

 

[nussnacker]

Would their performances not be 'judged' in juniors? The only thing forcing them to juniors would do is eradicate the casual fan from viewing the performances.

Besides, even if they were not juniors, FS is still a judged sport at any level. Even 4-8 year old babies get judged and get their score sheets.
How is it “smearing” or making them “vulnerable”?

There are times when even in a group of ordinary kids playing football only 11 out of 20+ will go out to play some sort of a match with another school. Some kids understandably will be upset, when they are left out. But that’s the nature of any sport, it teaches you competitiveness and accepting that you need to be better to make it next time.

If you don’t want your kid to be exposed to competition and upsetting feelings that come with it - just don’t let your kid do competitive sport. There are plenty of options to do sports without engaging in competition.

 

[Scott512]

I'm a little concerned about Anna because she's already won worlds and three national titles by 16 and I wonder what she's thinking when she sees the KaMissile put up 265 points. Will that motivate Anna or crush her hopes? Anna can still make the Olympic team but she will have to fight Liza for the spot and Liza is not just going to go away. Liza is already is good form and getting big scores and has three 3As. Her PCS scores are through the roof! Anya must get her quads back. She knows how to win. Lets hope she gets healthy and meets the challenges facing her.

I think Sasha with 4 or 5 quad freeskate will score 240 plus aand is going to be on the team and obviously KV is going to be on the team. Aliona and Maya also have chances but will have to hit big numbers at Rusnats. Maya is a wildcard in all of all this.

The pressure must be massive and I hope they all can handle it The fans too

 

[Tolstoj]

The fun part is even without getting StSq4, Aliona’s original BV with 1 3A is already higher than Liza’s BV with 2.
So in reality she should only need 1 3A, but with the way PCS scoring has been going she’s going to need 2.

I don't think BV alone tells the whole story though.

Cause if you water down the transitions, and have a long set up for your 3F-3T in the second half, congrats you have your 3-3 in the second half but it's no longer all that impressive.

Which granted you can say that to Tuktamysheva's 3A too, but 3A is still a difficult element not as mainstream yet in Ladies so for those big elements it is more understandable.

 

[hanca]

The fun part is even without getting StSq4, Aliona’s original BV with 1 3A is already higher than Liza’s BV with 2.
So in reality she should only need 1 3A, but with the way PCS scoring has been going she’s going to need 2.

Unfortunately for her, the competition is not only about base value. A few years ago Aliona was beating Anna who was doing quads Lutz (and Aliona did not do any quad), Aliona benefitted from higher GOE and higher PCS and was beating Anna who had higher base value. Now the situation is the other way round - Liza with lower base value beats Aliona. The GOE and PCS are important too, not only the base value!

 

[Skatingcat]

I would love to increase the age limit to 18 or 19. That way I feel like we'd see more variation and creative performances, and not performances that rely so heavily on quads.

 

[Amei]

Unfortunately for her, the competition is not only about base value. A few years ago Aliona was beating Anna who was doing quads Lutz (and Aliona did not do any quad), Aliona benefitted from higher GOE and higher PCS and was beating Anna who had higher base value. Now the situation is the other way round - Liza with lower base value beats Aliona. The GOE and PCS are important too, not only the base value!

Actually Kostornaia never beat Shcherbakova in a FS segment 2 seasons ago, she did however win the overall competitions of the GPF and Europeans, but that was due to her SP advantage of doing the triple axel and on a smaller scale a PCS advantage.

 

[flanker]

I would love to increase the age limit to 18 or 19. That way I feel like we'd see more variation and creative performances, and not performances that rely so heavily on quads.

I would once again remark that I really do not see quantity of skaters over 18 with "more variation and creative performances", all those amazing mature performers who cannot be seen on competitions because their spots are taken by those "evil" youngsters relying on quads. Where do they hide them.

 

[Zora]

I would love a second age group, like 20 years and above. That would motivate some youngsters to keep going or to come back, like Alina, Evgenia or Elena Radionova, and Liza could be the real Empress. If someone dared to, they could still have the choice to compete with the youngsters.

 

[fabienne1996]

I was more referring to the argument that these senior women are children and hence they are especially vulnerable to the judges.

Either they are senior women or they are children. I think that if we are going to start viewing them as children due to their ages, then that means the most appropriate place for them is in juniors.

Personally, I don’t think it is at all possible classify any of these skaters as ‘children’. They are either 18 or 17. That’s pretty much adult age.

I am sorry but since when are kamila,Maya and daria almost 17 or 18? They are 15, and yes they are teenagers/children. You are an adult with 18 , so if we look at it , alyona and liza are the adults, the others are still teenagers . When Anna and Sasha turn 18 then yes they too are adults in the real world, agewise at least

 

[nussnacker]

I don't think BV alone tells the whole story though.

Cause if you water down the transitions, and have a long set up for your 3F-3T in the second half, congrats you have your 3-3 in the second half but it's no longer all that impressive.

Which granted you can say that to Tuktamysheva's 3A too, but 3A is still a difficult element not as mainstream yet in Ladies so for those big elements it is more understandable.

You can say that about pretty much every jump Liza does, not just 3A. What transitions she had into her combos in her FS?
In year 2019-2020 she tried to include more transitions, but she gave up on them completely this season.

I am really really impressed with the attempts to compare Liza and Aliona in transitions and somehow try to make Aliona look bad in this. It takes balls! In Russian they say “A person sees a dot in another person’s eye but can’t notice a log in their own”.

 

[nussnacker]

Unfortunately for her, the competition is not only about base value. A few years ago Aliona was beating Anna who was doing quads Lutz (and Aliona did not do any quad), Aliona benefitted from higher GOE and higher PCS and was beating Anna who had higher base value. Now the situation is the other way round - Liza with lower base value beats Aliona. The GOE and PCS are important too, not only the base value!

Of course they are. I was replying to a user saying that Aliona needs 2*3A in the free to beat Liza. I was talking just about sheer BV, not about GOE and PCS. And that clean Aliona shouldn’t need 2*3A to beat Liza, 1 3A should be enough, because Aliona’s layout is better and her BV even with 1 3A in higher.

 

[alexocfp]

I wonder how many people watching the Olympics in 2018 realized that that was the last Olympics before the sport changed forever?

Speaking of, you can probably forget a comeback form the gold and silver medal winners from that Olympics.

The tech content score deficit now can’t be overcome by backloading or “artistry” or anything concrete. Liza with 2 2A’s was thoroughly battered.

Doubt they will work hard to make a comeback to get thrashed. Their legacies are settled, why tarnish them?

 

[Samoyed]

I would love to increase the age limit to 18 or 19. That way I feel like we'd see more variation and creative performances, and not performances that rely so heavily on quads.

I am not reallu sure, how this could work. Quadsters in Russia are now turning 18, so they would be ahead anyway. Beside that, imagine this unnecessary bloodbath in Russia, while Kamila, Daria, Maiia would be considered as juniors along with both Sofya's, etc. I do not think this would be fair for many junior ladies to be lost among others and possibly never turn senior due to very deep field of talented ladies...

In Russian they say “A person sees a dot in another person’s eye but can’t notice a log in their own”.

fun fact, not only Russians - this is straight from the Bible .

 

[Skatingcat]

Sadly, it seems that it is always a bloodbath at Russian Nationals, Euros, and qualifying for the olympics. I feel for all the Russian girls.

 

[Arbitrary]

Sadly, it seems that it is always a bloodbath at Russian Nationals, Euros, and qualifying for the olympics. I feel for all the Russian girls.

As it looks now the bloodbath may not happen at all. Only three primary contenders left for three spots.

Kostornaya may be happy with a 4th place and being reserve/swap for Olympics.
Trusova is likely out of the roaster with a broken foot.

 

[lopsilceci]

The fun part is even without getting StSq4, Aliona’s original BV with 1 3A is already higher than Liza’s BV with 2.
So in reality she should only need 1 3A, but with the way PCS scoring has been going she’s going to need 2.

Yes, it's more about what PCS each of them is getting from judges, but I'm not sure that Aliona is going to get the PCS she used to unless she gets her old layout back and fixes the small details. That would maybe put judges back on her side.
And she needs it not just to beat Liza but to get back into the top 3 Russian women too.

 

[irriya]

Actually Kostornaia never beat Shcherbakova in a FS segment 2 seasons ago, she did however win the overall competitions of the GPF and Europeans, but that was due to her SP advantage of doing the triple axel and on a smaller scale a PCS advantage.

yes. and that's why people are saying she really needs to add a 4s to win. and unfortunately it was not happening

 

[Jontor]

I wonder how many people watching the Olympics in 2018 realized that that was the last Olympics before the sport changed forever?

Speaking of, you can probably forget a comeback form the gold and silver medal winners from that Olympics.

The tech content score deficit now can’t be overcome by backloading or “artistry” or anything concrete. Liza with 2 2A’s was thoroughly battered.

Doubt they will work hard to make a comeback to get thrashed. Their legacies are settled, why tarnish them?

Ah, the 2018 Olympics. It was one of those moments I will always treasure in my heart. That Loop combo save Alina did is iconic, but it was nerve wrecking at the time when she missed it after the first Lutz.

I didn't think back then that the following years would provide many more iconic moments! Sasha and her quads, Anna's all three national titles, Alyona and her fantastic 3A's. Kamila and her fantastic spins and quads.

And I shed a tear when Liza got a silver medal at Worlds. Who would have thought back in 2018 that would happen?

I am sure we are in for many more iconic moments. But ice is slippery, anything can happen.