Jason Brown | Page 882 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown

I am not a another site member (Redditor?) not am I likely to be (with praise to our friends who do participate there), but I do love how they manage to get videos posted from various sources. To confirm how wonderful Jason is.

Which we can then repost here. :)
 
He’s got three weeks till IDF which I think is a good amount of time to work in training. He improved leaps and bounds from Finlandia to here so I think we’ll see SL even better by france. Plus, IDF has good vibes for Jason so I’m thinking (praying) he’ll do well. He’s probably in with a chance of another silver there I think, but I haven’t done the maths to see whether that would be enough for GPF.
I won’t be surprised to see him on the entry list for Golden Spin as usual just in case. He’s working on peaking at the right time and I think he’s well on his way. Importantly to me, he seemed happy and pleased in the k&c rather than unhappy which is most important to me.
Yes. I thought Jason looked happy too. He is working so hard on his fitness, as usual, which is so important. His head is in the right place, but competition is stressful no matter who you are. I want Jason to leave the quad in and keep performing it. Many people have issues with quads and other jumps.
 
someone on another site posted the CBC coverage of jason's skates, with commentary by Kurt Browning. they're full of praise for jason, calling him an artist whilst also pointing out the athleticism and technical prowess of jason's skating.
my favourite line is from the SP - "the only thing that detracts from his skating is how much jealously I feel watching him" 💖
That was very informative commentary. I knew that Jason was injured this summer, but if Beverly is correct he broke a bone in his foot and was off ice for 6 or 7 weeks. That's a lot more than a tweak to the foot! It explains a lot about what is going on. I also noted that Kurt comments that the non jumping portion of the program seems muted and doesn't show off Jason's skills. We are all in agreement on that. I wonder what happened with the choreo? Let's hope they fix it before France.
 
That was very informative commentary. I knew that Jason was injured this summer, but if Beverly is correct he broke a bone in his foot and was off ice for 6 or 7 weeks. That's a lot more than a tweak to the foot! It explains a lot about what is going on. I also noted that Kurt comments that the non jumping portion of the program seems muted and doesn't show off Jason's skills. We are all in agreement on that. I wonder what happened with the choreo? Let's hope they fix it before France.
But do you think it looked better at Finlandia compared to SC? After Finlandia a lot of people showed admiration and it didn't seem like they saw it as muted or like something was wrong. What could have happened?
 
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I broke a bone in my foot in early January and it still bothers me. I can't imagine skating but then Jason is many years younger than me. Loved Kurt's commentary, especially about the quad. If he's only going to do one, why bother. It doesn't give him that many more points than a triple triple and he throws those pretty well. What's really gratifying is to see and hear Jason's skating be praised even without the quad. Now if we could just put a sock in Tara's mouth on that same subject........(oh my, did I just say that???)
 
But do you think it looked better at Finlandia compared to SC? After Finlandia a lot of people showed admiration and it didn't seem like they saw it as muted or like something was wrong. What could have happened?
I really don't know. I'll have to watch them back to back and see how I react. I thought it was muted at Finlandia also, but attributed it to first competition jitters. Sinnerman at SCI was brilliant. Near perfect. But SL didn't bring goosebumps at either competition. I think that Jason is not yet committed to the program nor is he confident in it. Let's hope that changes.
 
But do you think it looked better at Finlandia compared to SC? After Finlandia a lot of people showed admiration and it didn't seem like they saw it as muted or like something was wrong. What could have happened?

Do you mean the program or the jumps? I do think the jumps looked somewhat better overall - not as wobbly? - and was glad to hear Kurt praise his “beautiful takeoff” on the 4S. If you mean the FS program, I don’t know that it looked better (not talking about errors). I’m not 100% sure I agree with Kurt that a lyrical program can’t showcase him well, but I do agree that Jason seems muted here. What I liked in the old program was that the middle section began with dramatic movement and intention and from there it built momentum and intensity through the end even while remaining lyrical. Here the second section is pretty but it doesn’t convey much, and I don’t feel that the intensity builds. Maybe he conveyed less because the errors shook him out of his concentration. But the way the program is structured gives him no help and I think that’s a problem. But let’s see what happens in France.

@kan01 I think right now the quad attempt cost him a lot - not just the two foot <<, but the fall on the 3A, the -2S pop, and the spin error. I’m guessing he lost at least 10 points excluding the points lost for the quad itself. Even with one quad he won’t beat Nathan (or Vincent at this point). So the question is what his goal is right now. If it’s to make the team, high scores are key. If he is able to standup on a clean or an < 4S and skate a clean program otherwise, that will give him the highest possible scores. Otherwise, he may be better off rethinking it. But I also think he needs to fix that FS because he got quite low PCS. Partly due to the errors, yes. But also because right now it doesn’t have much impact.
 
Interesting how the conversation has changed from: Jason needs a quad, he just needs it, to: Jason doesn't even need a quad. Funny.
My opinion was that he didn't need the quad at SCI, but he really wants to accomplish it and it will matter later on. So he tried. What he did at SCI was enough for SCI. But now he has to overcome the flaws in the SL program. Likely the skate at SCI will highlight what needs to be looked at. Whether or not he should do a quad has to come out of the strategy that he and his team decide is most beneficial on many levels. But looked at with a long view, Sinnerman was much better at SCI than at Finlandia. SL, not so much. They will have to work on SL. It is essentially a new program and with almost 2 months of training lost, it's not quite ready for prime time. Hopefully over the next 3 weeks, they will figure it out. If they think it needs a quad. Truth is, every single skater except Nathan probably would have skated better had they eliminated the quads. Most skaters can't really do them in competition. They land one, they fall on another or they get rattled and fall on their 3A. That was one messy competition.
 
Do you mean the program or the jumps? I do think the jumps looked somewhat better overall - not as wobbly? - and was glad to hear Kurt praise his “beautiful takeoff” on the 4S. If you mean the FS program, I don’t know that it looked better (not talking about errors). I’m not 100% sure I agree with Kurt that a lyrical program can’t showcase him well, but I do agree that Jason seems muted here. What I liked in the old program was that the middle section began with dramatic movement and intention and from there it built momentum and intensity through the end even while remaining lyrical. Here the second section is pretty but it doesn’t convey much, and I don’t feel that the intensity builds. Maybe he conveyed less because the errors shook him out of his concentration. But the way the program is structured gives him no help and I think that’s a problem. But let’s see what happens in France.

@kan01 I think right now the quad attempt cost him a lot - not just the two foot <<, but the fall on the 3A, the -2S pop, and the spin error. I’m guessing he lost at least 10 points excluding the points lost for the quad itself. Even with one quad he won’t beat Nathan (or Vincent at this point). So the question is what his goal is right now. If it’s to make the team, high scores are key. If he is able to standup on a clean or an < 4S and skate a clean program otherwise, that will give him the highest possible scores. Otherwise, he may be better off rethinking it. But I also think he needs to fix that FS because he got quite low PCS. Partly due to the errors, yes. But also because right now it doesn’t have much impact.
Well said both of you!
 
Random thought:

The US judge at Skate Canada does not seem to be a big fan of Jason’s. She awarded him GOE on the low end for most elements in both programs and awarded him much lower PCS than Nathan. I was curious and googled her. She is a former competitive skater, the wife of the chairman of Macy’s (ie rich, I’m sure), and very involved with FS in Harlem and Ronald McDonald House.

Anyone who isn’t impressed with Jason seems to have an ally in Ms. Lundgren. But at least they can’t say US is propping him up.
 
That was very informative commentary. I knew that Jason was injured this summer, but if Beverly is correct he broke a bone in his foot and was off ice for 6 or 7 weeks. That's a lot more than a tweak to the foot! It explains a lot about what is going on. I also noted that Kurt comments that the non jumping portion of the program seems muted and doesn't show off Jason's skills. We are all in agreement on that. I wonder what happened with the choreo? Let's hope they fix it before France.
With due respect to Beverly, that doesn't align at all with anything Jason has said and doesn't align at all with anything any reputable source has said, so I'll take it with a hefty grain of salt.
 
I don't think it's about strategy regarding the quad anymore. I don't think he's willing to leave the quad out even if it would benefit him. He came close last season and I remember him saying in an interview that he will try it until he gets it. It has been working out in practice and he seemed confident he will get consistent at it. Of course the injury keeps delaying improvement, but it's also his ambition to keep attempting it. That's my opinion.
 
Do you mean the program or the jumps?
I meant the program minus jumps. I mainly asked that because I remembered hearing a commentator on youtube named Fran talk about it after Finlanda and she sounded totally in love with SL including the costume, the music in the middle and everything. She also seems knowledgeable on artistry by the way she speaks about things. 🙂 She didn't like Kolyada's, which was also rough, so that might have influenced her.
It sparked my curiosity.
 
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I meant the program minus jumps. I mainly asked that because I remembered hearing a commentator on youtube named Fran talk about it after Finlanda and she sounded totally in love with SL including the costume, the music in the middle and everything. She also seems knowledgeable on artistry by the way she speaks about things. 🙂 She didn't like Kolyada's, which was also rough, so that might have influenced her.
It sparked my curiosity.

Fran loves Jason and Yuzuru. 😊 I actually like her commentary a lot but haven’t heard her take on this yet so I’ll have to listen. Anyway, as I’ve probably already said at too great length 😂 I think the FS isn’t much improved over Finlandia, but reintroducing quad could have impacted it. So I’ll wait til France to say more. I agree with @Bookseller that the SP looks better.
 
The old step sequence matches the music better imo, more emotional impactful... which probably explains the lack of goosebumps this time around. I had a lump in my throat watching the StSq at 4CC, and that's while being annoyed with Equestrian guy's commentary the entire program lol. I didn't get the same feels from Finlandia.

from 2020 4CC : https://youtu.be/dVFRB9lRijM?t=228 (maybe geoblocked in US)

from 2020 Nationals : https://youtu.be/tAm_EcZmFu4?t=196

from 2021 Finlandia : https://youtu.be/H4v5Vys9zFg?t=239
 
@rollerblade, you’re exactly right. The new version doesn’t match the music at all.

I actually was looking back at some old posts from 2019 where Jordan Cowan was teasing short sections of SL from a session he and Jason did at TCC not long before Jason suffered his concussion. I remember being absolutely overwhelmed by the beauty and raw intensity of just those brief clips. I think a lot of us were in awe. I wish he’d go back to it.




 
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I still think I need to see SL completely clean before I can make a full judgement. I think it's quite clear that his falls and mistakes toom him out of the performance. But I do think he is performing comparably with it - his best score at 4CC was 180 which was with a popped 2T and a clean set of triple triples. He got 165 here with a 4S<< worth 2 points, 4 points BV from the axel fall plus 2 or so points of GOE and lost base value on that triple salchow combo and the final spin. His PCS was slightly lower than usual which I think was fair considering the fall. If he goes clean even without the quad I think he'll be back to that similar range again. So even if we are not completely sold on the programme, at least it looks like the judges are still willing to go with it.

Having gone back and looked at the protocols, Jason actually lost 10 points in GOE at SCI compared with 4cc, plus about 4 points in PCS.
 
Personally, I still prefer the orginal version - it felt more personal. Perhaps I will change my mind as time goes on.

As for the quad: fixed in my mind is still that very beautiful, very wonderful attempt in Stockholm. That was our preview, that was our demonstration of what can be. All he needed was a little more confidence, a little more time. I am sure he will get there. He stood up in Vancouver, albeit with a sticky leg, but I am sure we will see a better attempt in France, with better 3As, and then we can start making better judgements.

Still, imagine the wild reactions if Jason licks the stamp and sends it on the 4F. :laugh:
 
@fzztsimmons, you’re probably right we shouldn’t make a final judgment on this version of the program until he skated it relatively clean at full strength. But having rewatched both the Skate Canada and the Finlandia programs, I still think the new choreography is problematic.

Both 2021 versions (whether starting with 3F or 4S) have a ton of crossovers throughout. Is that because he isn’t it at full strength yet and needs them to generate speed? Maybe. But it makes the program look much more empty and generic. Also, a lot of his movements don’t match or highlight the music, and several of them are quite awkward (eg, the backwards entry into the transition jump before the 3 Lo actually makes me feel like “oh no he popped a jump” before he even does the loop; the backwards lean in the final section just makes me think “why”?).

Beyond that, I no longer know where he’s trying to take us, and it seems like it’s quite vague in his own mind. That’s actually a big concern for me, because even if he couldn’t run the program for awhile due to injury, he could think about it. Could he have been thrown off by the errors and because he’s still not at full strength or stamina? Maybe. My fear, though, is that like the S&G program of a few years ago, he will work to convince himself that he loves it but it will never be right. That’s not the kind of mistake you want to make in an Olympic season.
 
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