- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
So true. 4CC's not only is too close to the olympics but also for some reason is in Asia in olympic years meaning travel and time zone issues for NA skaters.
2021-22 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating
- Thread starter skylark
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2021
Another strong skate at today's US Series in Massachusetts for Sonia Baram and Daniel Tioumenstev, as they lead the Junior SP.
2022 Championship Series - Norwood
Event Results for 2022 Championship Series - Norwood
ijs.usfigureskating.org
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
@ice coverage I wonder if whatever is going on with L/O is the same thing as whatever is going on with Jimmy Ma?
I’m sure they are all going to Nationals.
I’m sure they are all going to Nationals.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Yes, in the U.S. Men's thread yesterday I had referred to Liu/O'Shea's situation -- because what I was saying about Jimmy over there was basically the same thing that I previously had said in this thread about Liu/O'Shea.Update: After seeing how small the total Championship Series numbers (Henderson + Norwood) have been for Juvenile/Intermediate/Novice pairs, I still think that it is a chicken-or-egg situation that the numbers who will advance to National Development Camp also are small.
This year's Championship Series as a whole had:
- a total of 3 Juvenile pairs: two at Henderson + a third at Norwood.
- a total of 4 Intermediate pairs: four at Henderson, with three of them also competing at Norwood. (A fifth pair withdrew from Henderson.)
- a total of 6 Novice pairs: six at Henderson, with three of them also competing at Norwood
- a total of 4 Intermediate pairs: four at Henderson, with three of them also competing at Norwood. (A fifth pair withdrew from Henderson.)
- a total of 6 Novice pairs: six at Henderson, with three of them also competing at Norwood
The allotment for this season's National Development Camp is: Top 6 Novice pairs nationwide + 3 "wild card" spots selected from Juvenile, Intermediate, or Novice pairs.
So all 6 Novice pairs from Championship Series will advance to NDC.
And 3 out of 7 Juvenile/Intermediate pairs will advance to NDC.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
Agreed. I enjoyed their skate --although I'm not sure about those costumes. LOL
I thought they looked "more senior." They looked more polished and more confident.
Lu/Mitrofanov look more grown up. She has also grown quite tall, and fortunately for them, so has he. Skating-wise they look about the same as previous years. Their jumps are far superior to their other elements. Not everyone will like their Toxic+Survivor SP, but it's a different style for them. They started out the season extremely rough, but look better now.
Good for Balasz Nagy for taking advantage of his Hungarian citizenship. I didn't know the US would release him that quickly, but he has sat out of international competition for a year.
The Jr pair that won the US Qualifying Series has a huge age difference ( a grown man who will turn 20 by the end of the season paired with a young child), which made it easier for them to do things like the twist and the lifts than the other Jr pairs who are more similar in age and further along the puberty road. I don't know how long they will last especially since the girl is also doing well in singles and they can't compete internationally this year, but for now I enjoy them. It's become rare to pair adults with tweens, for good reasons, but it's safe from a sports perspective, you don't fear the man dropping the girl.
The number of spots for Development Camp was published in July, before they would have known exactly how many Juvenile thru Novice pairs exist in September. But they must have had an idea that the number of pairs would be low.
Eliminating Nationals for Juvenile-Novice had to have eliminated many pairs at those levels. This isn't an entirely bad thing as next to none of those pairs ever became Senior pairs (because of different skill levels, puberty, height/size difference issues, geography, partners wanting different things, big age differences leading to partners being at different places in life, skaters choosing another discipline, etc).
Juvenile/Intermediate pair skating is like a different universe -- they do lifts at shoulder height, modified death spirals, no twist, the throws barely leave the ice, etc. Doing well at these levels doesn't mean you'll be good at pairs. Skaters used to partner up for what was essentially an easy trip to US Nationals. Now that that path to Nationals has been eliminated, there's less incentive to bother with pairs. It's a lot easier to skate by yourself than deal with another person. It can't be as fun to skate with your brother if you don't get to go to Nationals lol. Now you have to do it for love, not because there's a reward at the end.
Also, pair skating has gotten harder and it's shedding its label of the "easier discipline" in the US. You can't automatically excel just because you can do a 3T or 2A. It involves a different skill set that some skaters will be good at and many won't be, regardless of if they can land a jump by themselves. And in pairs, you're only as good as the partner you skate with. And the girls will always drastically outnumber the boys. The stars really have to align to do well in pairs (a reason why there are so few pairs worldwide compared to other disciplines), and skaters must be realizing that more now. It's easier to focus on yourself.
I look at the recent crop of pairs, and many of them came up the Juvenile-Novice pairs ranks (with different partners). So it's interesting that Juvenile-Novice are becoming more extinct.
Good for Balasz Nagy for taking advantage of his Hungarian citizenship. I didn't know the US would release him that quickly, but he has sat out of international competition for a year.
The Jr pair that won the US Qualifying Series has a huge age difference ( a grown man who will turn 20 by the end of the season paired with a young child), which made it easier for them to do things like the twist and the lifts than the other Jr pairs who are more similar in age and further along the puberty road. I don't know how long they will last especially since the girl is also doing well in singles and they can't compete internationally this year, but for now I enjoy them. It's become rare to pair adults with tweens, for good reasons, but it's safe from a sports perspective, you don't fear the man dropping the girl.
The number of spots for Development Camp was published in July, before they would have known exactly how many Juvenile thru Novice pairs exist in September. But they must have had an idea that the number of pairs would be low.
Eliminating Nationals for Juvenile-Novice had to have eliminated many pairs at those levels. This isn't an entirely bad thing as next to none of those pairs ever became Senior pairs (because of different skill levels, puberty, height/size difference issues, geography, partners wanting different things, big age differences leading to partners being at different places in life, skaters choosing another discipline, etc).
Juvenile/Intermediate pair skating is like a different universe -- they do lifts at shoulder height, modified death spirals, no twist, the throws barely leave the ice, etc. Doing well at these levels doesn't mean you'll be good at pairs. Skaters used to partner up for what was essentially an easy trip to US Nationals. Now that that path to Nationals has been eliminated, there's less incentive to bother with pairs. It's a lot easier to skate by yourself than deal with another person. It can't be as fun to skate with your brother if you don't get to go to Nationals lol. Now you have to do it for love, not because there's a reward at the end.
Also, pair skating has gotten harder and it's shedding its label of the "easier discipline" in the US. You can't automatically excel just because you can do a 3T or 2A. It involves a different skill set that some skaters will be good at and many won't be, regardless of if they can land a jump by themselves. And in pairs, you're only as good as the partner you skate with. And the girls will always drastically outnumber the boys. The stars really have to align to do well in pairs (a reason why there are so few pairs worldwide compared to other disciplines), and skaters must be realizing that more now. It's easier to focus on yourself.
I look at the recent crop of pairs, and many of them came up the Juvenile-Novice pairs ranks (with different partners). So it's interesting that Juvenile-Novice are becoming more extinct.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Yes, of course -- USFS already had announced the number of Development Camp spots before registration for Championship Series began.
Exactly what I have been saying in my responses to the person who seemed concerned that the number of Development Camp spots for pairs is too small.
My point has been that USFS was correct in anticipating
that the number of Championship Series entries in Juvenile/Intermediate/Novice pairs would be low.If/when U.S. Pairs Final returns in a future season, I wonder whether it perhaps could have any positive effect on the number of Juvenile/Intermediate/Novice pairs out there???
In the 2019-20 season (the first season with Nats only for Junior/Senior), U.S. Pairs Final had 12 Juvenile pairs; 9 Intermediate; and 7 Novice.
If/when U.S. Pairs Final returns in a future season, I wonder whether it perhaps could have any positive effect on the number of Juvenile/Intermediate/Novice pairs out there???
In the 2019-20 season (the first season with Nats only for Junior/Senior), U.S. Pairs Final had 12 Juvenile pairs; 9 Intermediate; and 7 Novice.
Yes a more certain competition schedule could help. The number of Novice pairs is about the same as 2019-20. The biggest difference is the number of Juvenile pairs. We're coming off a virtual season last year where Juvenile and Intermediate pairs got lumped together in one division for the virtual Championship Series. During the uncertainty of a pandemic, I could see why there's not much interest in forming a Juvenile pair, especially if it requires relocation.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2012
They look so improved. Great future for this team
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
I really enjoyed both the sp skates at NHK from our U.S. pairs! Audrey and Misha gave a solid skate, you can see they're working systematically, advancing here, improving there. 
A little better presentation, although I miss the gorgeous smile Misha had when they first became seniors.
Ashley and Timothy had another beautiful skate! They're really going for consistency, and for all the attention to detail that they've become known for. Well done,!
A little better presentation, although I miss the gorgeous smile Misha had when they first became seniors.Ashley and Timothy had another beautiful skate! They're really going for consistency, and for all the attention to detail that they've become known for. Well done,!
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2020
Yeah, I say 100% OUT with those costumes
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Congratulations 
to Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy Leduc on their 4th place finish at NHK! Their skating was again so passionate and beautiful; and they're gaining consistency. Well done. Total Score: 202.79.
And congratulations
to Audrey Lu and Misha Mitrofanov for their 5th place finish and clean skate! Audrey and Misha are also making a statement with their consistency and their good elements, such as their 3S-euler-2S combo. Total Score: 190.03.
to Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy Leduc on their 4th place finish at NHK! Their skating was again so passionate and beautiful; and they're gaining consistency. Well done. Total Score: 202.79. And congratulations
to Audrey Lu and Misha Mitrofanov for their 5th place finish and clean skate! Audrey and Misha are also making a statement with their consistency and their good elements, such as their 3S-euler-2S combo. Total Score: 190.03.- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
I haven't seen any of NHK events. I usually watch pairs first at every event, and then men. So I'm just now catching up a bit with ice dance at Skate Canada and GP Italy. For the ladies, I may try to catch a few programs at some events. Anyway, I'm trying not to be spoiled by the NHK conversation here. I've been watching the junior and senior pairs events at the Norwood, MA championship series.
I noticed that there were some pairs who competed at both Henderson, NV in October, and at Norwood this week. I double-checked the qualifying requirements for 2022 Nationals for each discipline to try and determine which teams have qualified. I don't see any names listed yet on the Wiki page.
Junior Pairs (based on results at both events, plus international events):
There are 12 spots available for junior pairs (3 international byes and 9 selections from the series events), so I'm guessing--
Baram/Tioumentsev
Martins/Bedard
Smith/Deng
Kam/Meyh
Wessenberg/Eisenach--I guess they will compete in juniors at Nationals, tho' they aren't eligible as juniors internationally
Rivers/Chapman
Barrett/Davis
Wong/Wierens
Deardorff/Pagano
Fleming/Finster (by the skin of their noses -- they had a bad comp at Norwood, but scored higher than remaining teams)
AFAIK, there are two remaining spots available between four teams:
Fletcher/Brown WD from Norwood, but scored higher at Henderson than three other teams who all competed at both Henderson and Norwood --
Fletcher/Brown scored 102.79 total at Henderson; Romero/Ogren scored 102.99 total at Norwood, but only 78.85 total at Henderson (in last place); Murray/Gillette scored 99.95 total at Norwood and 94.45 total at Henderson; Moss/Edwards scored 95.66 total at Norwood (in last place) and 92.69 total at Henderson.
I'm not certain of the selection criteria in this instance. Also, did Fletcher/Brown WD from Norwood due to injury? So, the question is will the selection committee add total scores from both competitions for those who competed at both competitions to help determine the final selections, or are the selections between these teams already determined by other criteria? In any case, Murray/Gillette have the highest total score from both comps, followed by Moss/Edwards, and then Romero/Ogren. However, Romero/Ogren's total score at Norwood slightly edges Fletcher/ Brown's total score at Henderson by .20 (if that even matters).
I noticed that there were some pairs who competed at both Henderson, NV in October, and at Norwood this week. I double-checked the qualifying requirements for 2022 Nationals for each discipline to try and determine which teams have qualified. I don't see any names listed yet on the Wiki page.
Junior Pairs (based on results at both events, plus international events):
There are 12 spots available for junior pairs (3 international byes and 9 selections from the series events), so I'm guessing--
Baram/Tioumentsev
Martins/Bedard
Smith/Deng
Kam/Meyh
Wessenberg/Eisenach--I guess they will compete in juniors at Nationals, tho' they aren't eligible as juniors internationally
Rivers/Chapman
Barrett/Davis
Wong/Wierens
Deardorff/Pagano
Fleming/Finster (by the skin of their noses -- they had a bad comp at Norwood, but scored higher than remaining teams)
AFAIK, there are two remaining spots available between four teams:
Fletcher/Brown WD from Norwood, but scored higher at Henderson than three other teams who all competed at both Henderson and Norwood --
Fletcher/Brown scored 102.79 total at Henderson; Romero/Ogren scored 102.99 total at Norwood, but only 78.85 total at Henderson (in last place); Murray/Gillette scored 99.95 total at Norwood and 94.45 total at Henderson; Moss/Edwards scored 95.66 total at Norwood (in last place) and 92.69 total at Henderson.
I'm not certain of the selection criteria in this instance. Also, did Fletcher/Brown WD from Norwood due to injury? So, the question is will the selection committee add total scores from both competitions for those who competed at both competitions to help determine the final selections, or are the selections between these teams already determined by other criteria? In any case, Murray/Gillette have the highest total score from both comps, followed by Moss/Edwards, and then Romero/Ogren. However, Romero/Ogren's total score at Norwood slightly edges Fletcher/ Brown's total score at Henderson by .20 (if that even matters).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Senior Pairs
Twelve spots available
Byes include top 5 at 2021 U.S. Nats:
Knierim/Frazier
Calalang/Johnson
Cain-Gribble/LeDuc
Lu/Mitrofanov
Chan/Howe
McBeath/Bartholomay and Liu/O'Shea also have byes due to international comps this season
Five remaining spots (based on championship series events results, will likely go to):
Smirnova/Siianytsia *
Plazas/Fernandez
Finster/Silecky
Mokhova/Mokhov
The final spot most likely to Cooke/Bearinger, who have a higher total score (at Henderson) than Fakhroutdinov/Neudecker and Burden/Rounis achieved in competing at both events (the latter two teams flip-flopped in the bottom placements at both events).
For some reason, Finster/Silecky withdrew from Norwood after the sp, while Cooke/Bearinger withdrew before the event started, but both teams competed well at Henderson, with comfortable placements and high enough total scores.
I was sad to see how poorly Sasha F and Danny N competed at both events. They seemed to have a bright start to the season, but it's been seemingly tough for them since then. They both seemed absolutely devastated after the fp results were posted at Norwood, putting them in last place. I think Sasha is new to pairs. She has seemed to be a very good jumper, and she appeared to have a good, athletic vibe with Danny, but competitively they just aren't clicking so far. It makes me wonder why the split happened between Danny & Nica Digerness. I would guess it had something to do with Sappenfield's meddling. Nica was recovering from an injury, and then she'd been paired with Ian Meyh, and they trained together for a bit, but never competed. Then Ian obviously moved on and partnered with Ellie Kam in juniors (which he probably thought was best for his career development). I had previously enjoyed watching Danny and Nica together on competition ice. By now, had Danny and Nica remained together through thick and thin, they just might be higher up in the senior pairs standings together, but who knows. Pairs is such a tough (and often overly political) crapshoot adventure, with so many factors that weigh in to determining high level, brass ring success, in-the-game success, middling results, or continual stumbling blocks that lead to calling it quits.
* Edited the above to include Smirnova/Siianytsia whom I initially overlooked by mistake. They were first in senior pairs at Norwood (although they competed juniors internationally this season, after winning junior pairs at 2021 U.S. Nationals).
Twelve spots available
Byes include top 5 at 2021 U.S. Nats:
Knierim/Frazier
Calalang/Johnson
Cain-Gribble/LeDuc
Lu/Mitrofanov
Chan/Howe
McBeath/Bartholomay and Liu/O'Shea also have byes due to international comps this season
Five remaining spots (based on championship series events results, will likely go to):
Smirnova/Siianytsia *
Plazas/Fernandez
Finster/Silecky
Mokhova/Mokhov
The final spot most likely to Cooke/Bearinger, who have a higher total score (at Henderson) than Fakhroutdinov/Neudecker and Burden/Rounis achieved in competing at both events (the latter two teams flip-flopped in the bottom placements at both events).
For some reason, Finster/Silecky withdrew from Norwood after the sp, while Cooke/Bearinger withdrew before the event started, but both teams competed well at Henderson, with comfortable placements and high enough total scores.
I was sad to see how poorly Sasha F and Danny N competed at both events. They seemed to have a bright start to the season, but it's been seemingly tough for them since then. They both seemed absolutely devastated after the fp results were posted at Norwood, putting them in last place. I think Sasha is new to pairs. She has seemed to be a very good jumper, and she appeared to have a good, athletic vibe with Danny, but competitively they just aren't clicking so far. It makes me wonder why the split happened between Danny & Nica Digerness. I would guess it had something to do with Sappenfield's meddling. Nica was recovering from an injury, and then she'd been paired with Ian Meyh, and they trained together for a bit, but never competed. Then Ian obviously moved on and partnered with Ellie Kam in juniors (which he probably thought was best for his career development). I had previously enjoyed watching Danny and Nica together on competition ice. By now, had Danny and Nica remained together through thick and thin, they just might be higher up in the senior pairs standings together, but who knows. Pairs is such a tough (and often overly political) crapshoot adventure, with so many factors that weigh in to determining high level, brass ring success, in-the-game success, middling results, or continual stumbling blocks that lead to calling it quits.
* Edited the above to include Smirnova/Siianytsia whom I initially overlooked by mistake. They were first in senior pairs at Norwood (although they competed juniors internationally this season, after winning junior pairs at 2021 U.S. Nationals).
Last edited:
Jr pairs at Nationals can be any age. I've seen a 25 year old compete in Novice pairs before. As is usually the case, many of our Jr pairs aren't age-eligible for jr international competition. I believe those who aren't age-eligible: Baram/Tioumentsev, Smith/Deng, Kam/Meyh, Wessenberg/Eisenach, Deardorff/Pagano, Romero/Ogren. Several of the remaining teams will age out of Jr Intl's after this season (Martins/Bedard, Fleming/Finster, Rivers/Chapman).
It's highly likely they'll send Smirnova/Siianytsia to Jr Worlds even though they're competing Sr at Nationals.
If you competed at 2 Championship Series events, they take your best score.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
^^ Thanks for the information @gold12345.
So, if they only look at the highest score for those who compete at both comps, it looks like the final two spots for junior pairs would go to Romero/Ogren and Fletcher/Brown.
The fact that there are so many junior pairs teams in the U.S. who are age-ineligible (too young or too old) to compete juniors internationally would help explain why few U.S. pairs teams competed on the JGP (among other reasons too most likely).
So, if they only look at the highest score for those who compete at both comps, it looks like the final two spots for junior pairs would go to Romero/Ogren and Fletcher/Brown.
The fact that there are so many junior pairs teams in the U.S. who are age-ineligible (too young or too old) to compete juniors internationally would help explain why few U.S. pairs teams competed on the JGP (among other reasons too most likely).
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Liu/O'Shea have a bye to U.S. Nationals. Of that, I don't think there's any doubt, regardless of which events give them the bye. Certainly, Skate America, Warsaw Cup, and probably the Norwood event in August is included as an international event. If not, they'll certainly receive another international assignment prior to U.S. Nationals.
I'm not surprised. That makes the most sense. Why would they compete for too deep in pairs Russia, when Hungary is the best option for them to participate at major international events?
Last edited:
Similar threads
