I feel sorry for Mao

[krenseby]

I was so shocked today that Mao skated such an amazing LP with a full array of jumps, exhausting her potential, and still ended up with an LP score only a measly 3/10 of a point higher than Yuna, who fell on her triple loop.

Mao with an almost perfect LP gets the same score as Yuna with a botched jump! That must have been so demoralizing.

If I were in Mao's place, I'd be thinking to myself while watching Yuna's scores come up: "Yuna can skate with a mistake and still beat the most difficult program I can execute . So beating her is impossible."

Seriously though, will Mao now believe that beating Yuna is impossible? Will she resign herself for settling for 2nd at this year's Worlds and next year's GP final?

 

[Wrlmy]

I was so shocked today that Mao skated such an amazing LP with a full array of jumps, exhausting her potential, and still ended up with an LP score only a measly 3/10 of a point higher than Yuna, who fell on her triple loop.

Mao with an almost perfect LP gets the same score as Yuna with a botched jump! That must have been so demoralizing.

If I were in Mao's place, I'd be thinking to myself while watching Yuna's scores come up: "Yuna can skate with a mistake and still beat the most difficult program I can execute . So beating her is impossible."

Seriously though, will Mao now believe that beating Yuna is impossible? Will she resign herself for settling for 2nd at this year's Worlds and next year's GP final?

She can definitely work on her jumps (especially two-footing her combos and triple axel). Her "perfect" LP still has plenty of room for improvements. She can still improve her spins. Too premature to be pessimistic about her future.

 

[fourclover]

I was so shocked today that Mao skated such an amazing LP with a full array of jumps, exhausting her potential, and still ended up with an LP score only a measly 3/10 of a point higher than Yuna, who fell on her triple loop.

Mao with an almost perfect LP gets the same score as Yuna with a botched jump! That must have been so demoralizing.

If I were in Mao's place, I'd be thinking to myself while watching Yuna's scores come up: "Yuna can skate with a mistake and still beat the most difficult program I can execute . So beating her is impossible."

Seriously though, will Mao now believe that beating Yuna is impossible? Will she resign herself for settling for 2nd at this year's Worlds and next year's GP final?

Mao should think of improving her GOE's if she wants to beat Yu-na. Look at the protocol; Yu-na's only negative GOE was on her 3L which she fell on, while Mao has negative GOE's on just about every other jumps. So the bottom line is Mao's LP, when analyzed, wasn't so "perfect" after all.

 

[Bennett]

I don't know what she's thinking. But I don't think that she hit her full potential yet. I thought that she might have two-footed her 3A and 3F-3T, didn't she? But it's not that she doesn't have these jumps. She also looked rushed towards the end and a bit messed up with her the second last spin. She wasn't as good in her last 2A as she usually is. If she lands them clean, I am sure that she could be a lot better off. If she lands her 3A clean, she will deserve good GOEs for it.

 

[krenseby]

Mao should think of improving her GOE's if she wants to beat Yu-na. Look at the protocol; Yu-na's only negative GOE was on her 3L which she fell on, while Mao has negative GOE's on just about every other jumps. So the bottom line is Mao's LP, when analyzed, wasn't so "perfect" after all.

fourclover, can you please help me out and tell me what the problems' with Mao's jumps? I just couldn't see it as my technical expertise in skating is rather minimal.

 

[bekalc]

]In some ways, I don't think triple/triple combinations are rewarded enough. For example, I'm willing to bet (quite a lot of money) that Yu-na could probably do a 3 lutz/3toe, if she really put her mind to it. (In one newspaper article she was landing it in practice) but right now, there's absolutely no incentative for Yu-na to go for that combination... I don't know why team Asada doesn't just have her go back to the double axel/triple toe.

fourclover, can you please help me out and tell me what the problems' with Mao's jumps? I just couldn't see it as my technical expertise in skating is rather minimal.

The triple axel and the triple flip/triple toe were slightly two footed. She didn't get a whole lot of negative GOE on that.

Also, Mao has a really bad triple lutz. Which means while Yu-na was averaging something like 7 points on her triple lutz, Mao gets 5 points (sometimes less) on her triple lutz. Also, because of this Mao doesn't repeat the triple lutz and instead repeats the triple loop, which is less valuable.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Remember as you say all that, just like you yourself said Mao did win the LP, yeah it was just barely but she did. So the message is if she does her triple axel and skates perfectly she has a chance to win if Yu Na has a fall. That is assuming she is not behind after the SP, which means Yu Na not doing a clean SP probably. Considering what a wonderful and incredible skater Yu Na is that is showing they also think very highly of Mao.

 

[netnuts]

Mao should have WON, period.

Having said that, if she skated a better SP and had a better skating order, her PCS would be much much higher with a clean program...

Expectations in judges' minds matter in this game. The judges gave a Mao a base PCS value based on her entire seasonal performance.

 

[Bennett]

In some ways, I don't think triple/triple combinations are rewarded enough. For example, I'm willing to bet (quite a lot of money) that Yu-na could probably do a 3 lutz/3toe, if she really put her mind to it. (In one newspaper article she was landing it in practice) but right now, there's absolutely no incentative for Yu-na to go for that combination... I don't know why team Asada doesn't just have her go back to the double axel/triple toe.

Why isn't there any incentive for Yuna to go for that? Also why might it be good for Mao to go for 2a-3t than 3f-3t?

 

[krenseby]

Remember as you say all that, just like you yourself said Mao did win the LP, yeah it was just barely but she did. So the message is if she does her triple axel and skates perfectly she has a chance to win if Yu Na has a fall. That is assuming she is not behind after the SP, which means Yu Na not doing a clean SP probably. Considering what a wonderful and incredible skater Yu Na is that is showing they also think very highly of Mao.

Yes, but top skaters should be able to win by skating their best and not by expecting others to have mistakes and mopping up after them. I used to think that Mao's best was surely enough to be unbeatable and she probably did too. Realizing that this isn't true means that she must either resign to being a constant 2nd best or somehow change her program so that it can beat Yuna's when maxed out.

 

[bekalc]

Why isn't there any incentive for Yuna to go for that? Also why might it be good for Mao to go for 2a-3t than 3f-3t?

Less risk. Easier combination, making it easier to perhaps get high GOE's on.
What incentive is there for Yu-na to go for that combination. It wouldn't change her base value one iota, and that's what I hate about the new system. She would still end up repeating the double axel twice, the triple toe twice, and the triple lutz twice. There is an incentative for Yu-na to go for a triple flip/triple loop. But seeing as the triple loop is her worst jump, I don't ever see her really feeling comfortable with any triple/triple involving a loop..

In some sense, I will admit that Mao wasn't rewarded enough for going for two 3/3's.

 

[slutskayafan21]

In some sense, I will admit that Mao wasn't rewarded enough for going for two 3/3's.

I dont feel that way. Mao's technical base value was a whopping 70.05. Yu Na was only a 64.95. That seems like reward enough for a triple axel and extra 3/3.

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

I noticed Mao's slight two-foots on her landing became quite habitual. I don't know if it's due to her growth but once she manages to control her free leg, she'll get positive GOE on her jumps except her Lutz. I think in this Yuna/Mao era, it is going to be a battle of how you jump it, not what you jump.

 

[*Sniper*]

Mao should have WON, period.

Having said that, if she skated a better SP and had a better skating order, her PCS would be much much higher with a clean program...

Expectations in judges' minds matter in this game. The judges gave a Mao a base PCS value based on her entire seasonal performance.

That is entirely her fault, which she dearly paid for according to you.

By the way, you are almost getting as annoying as some of Yuna's craziest cheerleaders in this forum.

 

[carolinefan177]

Remember as you say all that, just like you yourself said Mao did win the LP, yeah it was just barely but she did. So the message is if she does her triple axel and skates perfectly she has a chance to win if Yu Na has a fall. That is assuming she is not behind after the SP, which means Yu Na not doing a clean SP probably. Considering what a wonderful and incredible skater Yu Na is that is showing they also think very highly of Mao.

If she skates perfectly, she has a chance to win if Yu-Na has a fall?? Wow...you really think Yu-Na is shear perfection on the ice. First of all, Mao did NOT skate a perfect lp, and to ASSUME that she could only win if Kim fell is not right imo. :disagree:

 

[bekalc]

I dont feel that way. Mao's technical base value was a whopping 70.05. Yu Na was only a 64.95. That seems like reward enough for a triple axel and extra 3/3.

That's because Mao's triple axel is worth 1.5 more than anything Yu-na attempts. Also, it's because Mao repeats the triple flip and the triple loop. Whereas Yu-na does two triple lutzs and two triple toes. Also, Yu-na didn't attempt a 3/2/2. If she attempts the 3/2/2 then her base value should go up 2 points. So that's basically their difference.

But if you count the points, Yu-na will get absolutely no benefit by going for a 3 lutz/3 toe.

 

[mylastduchess]

It seems to me that doing 2 triple jumps seperately basically has the mark value if added up than if you do it in a combination!

 

[Skye]

The reason combos are not getting more credit than the added base values is because when you do a combination you get an extra jumping slot and that itself is a reward. You can only do 7 (8 for men) jumping passes in the long program but if you max out your combos you can complete a total of 11 (12 for men) jumps.

I agree that sequences do not get enough credit for its difficulty but it has to be of lesser value than a combination, hence the 0.8 multiplier. Joannie would not be doing the 3T-3S sequence if she could land a 3S-3T combo.

I do NOT feel sorry for Mao because she was IMO gifted with a lv4 spin in both the short and long and two-footing and flutzing should be penalized even though she has gorgeous positions and floats across the ice effortlessly.

 

[Bennett]

I noticed Mao's slight two-foots on her landing became quite habitual. I don't know if it's due to her growth but once she manages to control her free leg, she'll get positive GOE on her jumps except her Lutz. I think in this Yuna/Mao era, it is going to be a battle of how you jump it, not what you jump.

I agree with the way you put it as "habitual". She looks so clean, but tends to have slight two-foot. But it doesn't look like she really needs to two-foot to save the landing. But she nonetheless two-foots her jumps. She then gets deductions for the jumps that look otherwise wonderful and could have gotten plus GOEs.

At the same time, Yuna is a rare exception who is so correct in the jumping techniques to the extent that she can cancel out the base value differences. It is remarkable that she gets +2 GOEs on her 3F-3T. That's really "wow." A lot of men would like to have that. She also gets >+1 GOEs on many of ther jumps. We barely see it happen in men's field, either.

 

[bekalc]

Yep Bennett, Mao and Yu-na are in someways mirrors of each other...Mao has the incredible base value, and Yu-na has the perfect technique. Can you imagine what would happen if both were combined into one skater...