Olympic season - yay or nay?

[cake]

Most people here are excited for Olympic season. But are there people like me who don´t really like olympic seasons? My reasons for disliking olympic seasons are:

- I don´t really get the difference to worlds (same skaters doing the same thing). Team event of course is different recently, but I´m not that much into that either.

- Many great skaters miss out on medals because their peak years happen to be in other years. Especially in the womens event it´s seems to be a question who is 16 at the right time. So I´m not much more excited about olympic champions than about world champions.
- Endless discussions about Olympic spots, although they can be entertaining

- Mass retirement of beloved skaters after the season.

Of course I would also like to hear the arguments of people who like Olympic season.

 

[4everchan]

actually, as a Canadian men fan, olympics = lots of unfulfilled potential. so i prefer worlds... when it comes to men.

I love the team event though I dislike the scoring of it... stupid that the LP's are scored 10-9-8-7-6 and pretty much the results are decided with the SPs, in other words, how a team will do overall against other teams that will not even compete in the LPs...

regarding retirements post olympic season... i don't mind that because it does mean the emergence of new talents and strategies... though sometimes, the strategies are not good ... from 2014 to 2018, pairs for instance, saw a huge technical development, the strategy was to raise the BV for everyone, but with the changes of rules, pairs are less interesting than ever this time around as the only place where the BVs can be raised is with SBS jumps... and those ugly syncrho euler combos... arkkkk

what I love about the olympics : media and the general public are interested in the sport... so i can fully discuss my favourite skaters with real people instead of those, like you all, who live in my computer, on this forum (i like you guys, but it's nice to chat figure skating with real life friends and watch it together... )

i have to agree with the women's discipline : though, it's not just now that there have been peaking at the right moment (age) for the games. it's been happening regularly in the past with hughes, baiul, lipinski, sotnikova, zagitova, and now we will see which one it will be but most people's money is on KV. For the general public, it makes very little sense as to them, the winner is unknown and unannounced... but I don't really see a solution with this for the women's field... even raising the age limit wouldn't help much... i don't think it will be very common to have women like Katarina Witt or Michelle Kwan or Yuna Kim skate for 5-6-7 years and remain at the top for that long... so very little chance to see olympic champions for whom it will be the glorious crowning of a LONG career... for a fan who follows the sport every year, i think this effect is less important, but is it good for the overall reach of the sport ? not sure...

ice dance for the olympics : too much politics...

sorry if my thoughts are all over the place... at this point, i am just hoping that athletes who have had covid in december will be able to join the olympic bubble.

 

[lariko]

Most people here are excited for Olympic season. But are there people like me who don´t really like olympic seasons? My reasons for disliking olympic seasons are:

- I don´t really get the difference to worlds (same skaters doing the same thing). Team event of course is different recently, but I´m not that much into that either.

- Many great skaters miss out on medals because their peak years happen to be in other years. Especially in the womens event it´s seems to be a question who is 16 at the right time. So I´m not much more excited about olympic champions than about world champions.
- Endless discussions about Olympic spots, although they can be entertaining

- Mass retirement of beloved skaters after the season.

Of course I would also like to hear the arguments of people who like Olympic season.

This is the first time I witness pre-Olympics, and I absolutely can't stand it, because it puts artificial pressure on the tempo of development and that weird do-or-die push. On the other hand, I can see how the interest picks up in that year, so... yeah. I don't like it, but it's almost a necessary evil?

 

[4everchan]

This is the first time I witness pre-Olympics, and I absolutely can't stand it, because it puts artificial pressure on the tempo of development and that weird do-or-die push. On the other hand, I can see how the interest picks up in that year, so... yeah. I don't like it, but it's almost a necessary evil?

yup.. you will see next year, cleaner programs will less ambitious jumps... it often is like this at the start of the next quad.... but the year of the games, it's push push push until you quad lutz your life away

 

[cake]

what I love about the olympics : media and the general public are interested in the sport... so i can fully discuss my favourite skaters with real people instead of those, like you all, who live in my computer, on this forum (i like you guys, but it's nice to chat figure skating with real life friends and watch it together... )

That´s a good point. Olympics is the only time figure skating gets some media coverage here in Germany.
Maybe another point pro Olympics: it is highly regarded by the athletes themselves.

 

[Cutting the ice]

I vote NAY.

If we look at the purpose of the Olympic games (from the IOC website): "The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

There has been serious "Olympic spirit drift" - the purpose is more often about nationalism - a country invests more in its athletes to say something about that country's superiority. And sometimes cheating to achieve this is even state-approved. If the IOC really wishes to promote this goal, athletes should perform with no country attachment and be funded equally from a pot of money raised from countries depending on their wealth and redistributed so that talented athletes everywhere would have equal access to training facilities and equipment, coaching and competitions. But that will never happen so then that begs the question, why have the Olympics at all? It will never achieve this goal and may even be counter-productive.

I also agree with 4everchan that some skaters who win lots of world championships, but don't win OG, are considered inferior to those who do. To hear years later that skaters couldn't even rewatch their performance at the Olympics because of the pain it caused when they didn't win gold (Orser for example), is painful to me. I would rather see an award for "body of work" to recognize performance over several competitions and perhaps several years. Perhaps instead quadrennially, athletes are awarded for their contributions to moving the sport forward, for consistency, innovation as well as - through documented actions - epitomizing the Olympic spirit.

Olympics in the past have also been a target for political boycotts - threatened or actual. The big boys can't settle their disputes the proper way, so let's show our disapproval of the host country by boycotting the Olympics. This also points out the falsity of the Olympic Movement. And this week we have our Olympic athletes being warned not to protest until they get home so they won't get detained, and to use burner phones so they won't get spied on. Yeah - the Olympics has a real problem.

Just a few of my thoughts on the subject.

 

[el henry]

Yea:

1. Figure skating coverage in the general press. Way more than usual. I get to look knowledgeable.

2. The skaters themselves like the Olys more than Worlds. Particularly in "normal" times. They love being around athletes from other sports and they love the Olympic vibe.

3. The skaters therefore care about the Olympics, drive for the Olympics, peak for the Olympics. The season is more exciting.

Nay:

1. It is one and done for four years. Figure skating fans know how important Worlds are, but no one else does.

2. Nationalism. "Medal counts", except as for individuals. Meh. Medal counts for countries (other than Team Event), coaches, anything except skaters. Proves nothing and is to hear about. But we will hear about it.

 

[TontoK]

I vote NAY.

If we look at the purpose of the Olympic games (from the IOC website): "The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

There has been serious "Olympic spirit drift" - the purpose is more often about nationalism - a country invests more in its athletes to say something about that country's superiority. And sometimes cheating to achieve this is even state-approved. If the IOC really wishes to promote this goal, athletes should perform with no country attachment and be funded equally from a pot of money raised from countries depending on their wealth and redistributed so that talented athletes everywhere would have equal access to training facilities and equipment, coaching and competitions. But that will never happen so then that begs the question, why have the Olympics at all? It will never achieve this goal and may even be counter-productive.

I also agree with 4everchan that some skaters who win lots of world championships, but don't win OG, are considered inferior to those who do. To hear years later that skaters couldn't even rewatch their performance at the Olympics because of the pain it caused when they didn't win gold (Orser for example), is painful to me. I would rather see an award for "body of work" to recognize performance over several competitions and perhaps several years. Perhaps instead quadrennially, athletes are awarded for their contributions to moving the sport forward, for consistency, innovation as well as - through documented actions - epitomizing the Olympic spirit.

Olympics in the past have also been a target for political boycotts - threatened or actual. The big boys can't settle their disputes the proper way, so let's show our disapproval of the host country by boycotting the Olympics. This also points out the falsity of the Olympic Movement. And this week we have our Olympic athletes being warned not to protest until they get home so they won't get detained, and to use burner phones so they won't get spied on. Yeah - the Olympics has a real problem.

Just a few of my thoughts on the subject.

Your first mistake is believing propoganda from the IOC. It's not an organization that acts on its principles. "Olympic ideals" my hind end.

They're not out to change the world - it's ridiculous that they pretend they are. Nevermind the current situation in China; Adolf Hitler hosted the Olympics for God's sake.

So, do like I do. Enjoy the Olympics as a presitgious once-every-four-years international sports festival. Don't assign it any importance beyond that.

 

[cake]

Nay:

1. It is one and done for four years. Figure skating fans know how important Worlds are, but no one else does.

2. Nationalism. "Medal counts", except as for individuals. Meh. Medal counts for countries (other than Team Event), coaches, anything except skaters. Proves nothing and is to hear about. But we will hear about it.

I always found the nationalism in sport strange, especially in figure skating, where skaters change countries quite often.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't know if it's my age or that there are so many entertainment options now, but the Olympics don't really excite me like they used to, so the whole season doesn't feel too different from the others. Since my favorite event is women's figure skating, it might help if the US athletes were more competitive in that division.

 

[el henry]

I always found the nationalism in sport strange, especially in figure skating, where skaters change countries quite often.

Not only that, I can almost understand it in a true team event: my country's 18 hockey players, playing together, are better than your country's 18 hockey players. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

But in figure skating. Where every skater is out there demonstrating their individual athletic gifts in the most individual of ways? I like that there are countries represented, and that therefore we get to see skaters like Donovan Carrillo succeed against all odds. But number of individual medals in figure skating doesn't say your country is better, or harder working, or more talented. It says you have a lot of really accomplished figure skaters.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Coming from another angle - I think nowadays the Olympics' significance might be related to insecurity about the status of figure skating (and other relatively niche disciplines) as a sport. Olympics hold less importance for professional sports like football, tennis, ice hockey etcs, so much so that players sometimes voluntarily skip them (like the NHL has done previously). Their fanbase massively outstrips figure skating, they have ample opportunities to generate income, and their achievements are recognised among a wider sector of society. Whereas for figure skaters, it's an opportunity once every 4 years for their existence to be validated by the average person on the street. An understandable feeling, especially for those from countries where skating isn't popular.

Personally I like the in-between seasons when skaters sometimes get experimental with their programmes. Some skaters also look visibly more relaxed and perform better during these seasons. On the flip side, I do have a sentimental weakness for retiring skaters putting up a nice Olympic swan song.

 

[cake]

Personally I like the in-between seasons when skaters sometimes get experimental with their programmes. Some skaters also look visibly more relaxed and perform better during these seasons. On the flip side, I do have a sentimental weakness for retiring skaters putting up a nice Olympic swan song.

Good point. I think the programs overall are even more "conservative" and warhorse-y (if that is a word) in olympics season. I remember some commentators reporting about Navka/Kostomarov: "They say they have some special ideas and save some special music for the Olympics" - and then it was Carmen

 

[4everchan]

Not only that, I can almost understand it in a true team event: my country's 18 hockey players, playing together, are better than your country's 18 hockey players. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

But in figure skating. Where every skater is out there demonstrating their individual athletic gifts in the most individual of ways? I like that there are countries represented, and that therefore we get to see skaters like Donovan Carrillo succeed against all odds. But number of individual medals in figure skating doesn't say your country is better, or harder working, or more talented. It says you have a lot of really accomplished figure skaters.

if i recall you are the one interested in latin and etymology right?
Compete comes from latin and means COM " together" and Petere : aim at or seek. In that sense, the way I have been taught competition when i did it by my coaches was simply, we get together and we bring the best out of each other. Did we see this in the team events so far? I would say so. Russia in 2014 : I felt that Julia really was an inspiring skater for her team... In 2018, when Patrick almost considered not participating to the games, the team event was a huge deal to confirm his participation... and as a matter of fact, Patrick did well for and with his teammates earning a whopping 18 points out of 20. Kaetlyn and Gabby also got the job done supporting each other here, and knowing they could be a factor, especially after their previous success at worlds.

So as much as I do understand the principle of a team sport versus a joint event, I would think that the team event is truly appropriate when looking at 1) the meaning of the word 2) the goal of the Olympics.

On top of that, as you know, in many team sports nowadays, they plug athletes together who barely train together at all, just in time for the games... without much team spirit etc... If anything, the figure skaters, are so tightly knit over the years, that it almost makes more sense to have them skate together for an Olympic medal than random hockey players who have barely ever met before or for instance, a relay team in track and field that pretty much cannot pass the baton to one another despite being the fastest runners in the field...

 

[Anna K.]

From a perspective of a small country with lower level skating, this often the single goal of an athlete to carry on with the sport: to represent his/her country in the Olympic games. Also financially, the national Olympic Committee often fully or partly covers the training expenses for that purpose. Just saying.

 

[4everchan]

From a perspective of a small country with lower level skating, this often the single goal of an athlete to carry on with the sport: to represent his/her country in the Olympic games. Also financially, the national Olympic Committee often fully or partly covers the training expenses for that purpose. Just saying.

100% !

the National Committees are obviously funded by the state... and so are most of the sporting federations (national)... so remove the idea of country and Olympics and even worlds championships are in shambles... There are some professional sports around that are not nationally based... but the ones who practice them are usually ultra wealthy people who can fund their own participation, or in exceptional cases, have sponsors. (I am looking at golf, car racing, etc) As a matter of fact, Canada has been doing better and better at the Olympics since 2010 : the games were held in Vancouver, and Canada, having held summer and winter games before and being the ONLY ever host country without a home soil Olympic champion invested in sports... there was the "Own the podium" program etc... Money (and obviously talent!) brought Canada to the top of the Olympic ranking in Vancouver and led to more money from the governments invested in sport. Is it ridiculous? Maybe for some aspects of it... but without funding, sports die... and without sports, what do we get??? A unhealthy (and this goes beyond physical fitness) society.

So yes, there are a lot of gimmicks with the Olympics and I am not too thrilled with what I am reading about the upcoming ones so far. At the same time, the structure it provides is beneficial to society outside of the games.... which is the most important thing in my mind.

 

[Cutting the ice]

I appreciate all the arguments made here in favour of the Olympic games. I love a good underdog story - somebody having their Olympic moment. However, I would hope that the less popular sports wouldn't die without the Olympics - after all there are World Cup and World Championships to be won. They don't pretend to be anything more than a competition for the title of best athlete of the day or season.

I also think that a lot of people are not as excited as in previous years about the Olympics. Just look at the difficulty that some countries have to get permission from their citizens to put in a bid to host. They are expensive to mount, may distract from other needs, and in many cases leave a lot of costly infrastructure that the community can't afford to maintain. So IMO a sport that relies on the Olympics to improve its popularity may be running out of track.

A couple of suggestions
1. The IOC has dressed up the Olympics as being some high ideal when the reality is very different. Fix it or move on.
2. The athlete that is expected to do well but is not an Olympic champion may feel like a failure and this failure may dog them for years. I know we are all thinking of examples of this in our heads right now. The difference between an OGM and OSM (or even off the podium) can be a slip of the toe pick or a badly timed cold. Olympic champion title awarded each quadrennial, should be reserved as I mentioned before, for a body of athletic performance that includes all aspects of the Olympic movement. It might not generate as many millions in revenue for the IOC but may promote better sport and in the end should be more prestigious.

But that won't happen until I learn to land that damn quad axel

 

[4everchan]

honestly, these are the games that so far, excite me the least ever... I agree with some of your points @Cutting the ice that the IOC need to think quick and fast if they do not want the games to end in a couple decades...

 

[DancingCactus]

I just wish they would hold the Olympics in countries that are actually known for Winter sports and with less questionable political systems.
The problem is that those traditional winter sports countries often don't want the Games because buidling the facilities and hosting all these people is a finantial drain, bad for the environment and not sustainable.

That being said, since Olympics are really the only time media in Germany cover figure skating at all, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Winnie_20]

I dislike the Oly season because skaters tend to retire after Olys and we (Europe) are left with a somewhat devalued Worlds. Milan four years ago wasn’t exactly anywhere near the level of Helsinki Worlds. I vaguely recall Boyang Jin making a complete mess of his FS (?) and then it turned out he had barely done anything on the ice since the Olympics. ;-)

Things might be different this time around, though. I dunno, what with corona having resulted in a lot of cancelled competitions and skaters having missed on opportunities to attend existing competitions, skaters might want to give this Worlds a chance when under norm circumstances they may not have.

Other than that, big Yay. I am a huge Olympics fan in general, both Summer and Winter. I took two weeks off from work with the Summer Games and my next two-week-plus-first-Friday (team competition) vacation is just two weeks away!!

Will be watching FS, but also things like skiing and snowboarding in all varieties, luge, bobsledding etc. No curling or ice hockey (I don’t even like hockey on grass) and speed skating and short track I will not actively seek out but it’s inevitable that I will see some of it…