Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Ziotic]

It’s unfortunate, there are many reasons this could have happened.

1. Someone on the coaching team was providing enhancements for training with hopes of getting it out of the system before a test.
2. It was another competitor jealous trying to discredit Kamilla.
3. There was a legitimate use related to COVID, but the proper paperwork wasn’t filed.
4. And the least likely. I think, she was taking it herself.

No matter what the outcome, it taints her and her team and from now on any ET team member win will have a * of course they won* for a large portion of the figure skating community.

People will wonder. Are they really that good, or just doping.

 

[TontoK]

It's tough. I agree with most of what you're saying, but I do think you have to remove athletes of any age from an event if they test positive for certain substances. I thnk it's more about running a clean event than punishing anyone in particular. OTOH, if a minor tested positive in December for a medication that increases stamina, perhaps any benefit has lapsed by February and it's an even playing field. There is a lot to consider and I'm glad I'm not any part of making these decisions.

I don't think there's any question that she'll be removed, based on the reporting that's been done - with the obvious caveat that perhaps we don't know everything yet. Whether her fault or not... she tested positive for doping, so she's out. That's just the way things are. I cannot fathom that the IOC will allow her to compete. Again, provided the reporting is accurate.

My guess is that the "legal issues" being discussed hinge on whether her scores in the Team Event are disallowed, or if the entire Russian team is disqualified - and that's only a guess.

 

[TontoK]

It’s unfortunate, there are many reasons this could have happened.

1. Someone on the coaching team was providing enhancements for training with hopes of getting it out of the system before a test.
2. It was another competitor jealous trying to discredit Kamilla.
3. There was a legitimate use related to COVID, but the proper paperwork wasn’t filed.
4. And the least likely. I think, she was taking it herself.

No matter what the outcome, it taints her and her team and from now on any ET team member win will have a * of course they won* for a large portion of the figure skating community.

People will wonder. Are they really that good, or just doping.

The first reason is the most likely, IMO.
The second is as unlikely as the 4th. If that's true, who gave it to her? Trusova? Anna? Where did they get it?
The third should be something that could be cleared up quickly, but it hasn't. And I don't think she ever had covid.

 

[solani]

It seems odd that the test in question happened back in december. At least the A result should have been there before the games - and if so, one had to be very sure that there won't be any issue OR Kami would have been replaced in the TE. I cannot imagine them putting Kami in with an investigation under way, given the presence of Anna and Sasha and the weakness of US Ladies/Pairs. They would have won easily without Kami after all.

Exactly. My guess is that the result was known early (at least in Russia) and they did what they've done regularly before Sochi - they've covered it up once they knew it was Valieva. Simply changed the database, because it was "nothing" anyway. But the WADA isn't so very trusting nowadays so they must've found irregularities and that process took time.

The sad thing is that if this story is really true, that it was only done because of the competition inside of Russia. Russian National is the most intense competition for those girls...
I find the whole situation absolutely devastating.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

What are you trying to do? Desperately defending Mother Russia under all circumstances? I get we don't have all info yet, but don't get so defensive all of a sudden. The fact that other countries also have doping violations doesn't mean a thing if The Russian athlete is at fault.

first of all, it was a response to another post, the author of which fully subscribed to this opinion:

IOC getting what it deserves for not holding Russia accountable for doping

You want to say that you did not notice this "little thing"? The fact that many people, including those on this forum, readily accepted unsubstantiated claims that "a skater from Russia" used doping is explained precisely by the false thesis that it is precisely and only Russia that is a country mired in in doping. Many believe that all or most of WADA's previous allegations against Russia are fully proven, which is also not true.

If there were a similar report about an American figure skater - I doubt it would spark a discussion about exactly how he should be punished. And this certainly would not have caused arguments that the entire American team should be immediately kicked out of the Olympics (and such proposals regarding Russia have already appeared in the media, and even here). This would not have prompted claims that WADA is paying the price for not punishing the US enough in the past.

But the statistics of even WADA itself are somehow uncomfortable. But these statistics do not include much. Not the NHL, not the NBA, for example.

 

[Ziotic]

The first reason is the most likely, IMO.
The second is as unlikely as the 4th. If that's true, who gave it to her? Trusova? Anna? Where did they get it?
The third should be something that could be cleared up quickly, but it hasn't. And I don't think she ever had covid.

My personal opinion, is that the first option is the most likely.

It also likely means the whole ET team and possibly the entire Russian team is on the same regime.

They use the drugs during practice to allow for more intensive practices and quicker recoveries so they can do more.

Then they have a systematic way to rid their bodies of the substance as they approach competition.

Kamilla perhaps had a slight weight fluctuation which resulted in the sample showing small traces of the ban substance.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

I don't think there's any question that she'll be removed, based on the reporting that's been done - with the obvious caveat that perhaps we don't know everything yet. Whether her fault or not... she tested positive for doping, so she's out. That's just the way things are. I cannot fathom that the IOC will allow her to compete. Again, provided the reporting is accurate.

My guess is that the "legal issues" being discussed hinge on whether her scores in the Team Event are disallowed, or if the entire Russian team is disqualified - and that's only a guess.

no one confirmed that she tested positive for doping. Maybe stop talking about it as a fait accompli?

 

[Sjs5572]

Exactly. She's only 15, and whatever happened should not be laid at her door. That's not to say she should/should not be banned from the Olympics, but we all know, or we SHOULD know, that a 15 year old girl didn't independently seek a disallowed heart medication.

An adult gave it to her.

I don't view this a "doping case" so much as I view it as "child endangerment." And lest anyone accuse me of anti-Russian bias, there are PLENTY of cases of child endangerment issues within American sports, and I am absolutely NOT satisfied that all is being done that could be to combat it.

If the American model is any indication, Kamilla will be held accountable. She'll shoulder the blame and the shame. And the adults involved will move on to other children.

When did we start to view children, American or Russian, as commodities?

This. I never approved of the Karoli training methods. I also applauded when Armstrong was stripped of medals and banned. There is a tendency among many in Russia to disregard egregious past state sponsored doping violations (e.g. Sochi lab) and cry victim and blame on US actors. Kamila is the only Russian victim; Russia and Team Eteri are not victims! It reminds me of when Jan 6th was blamed on "the deep state" and Antifa.

 

[lariko]

The first reason is the most likely, IMO.
The second is as unlikely as the 4th. If that's true, who gave it to her? Trusova? Anna? Where did they get it?
The third should be something that could be cleared up quickly, but it hasn't. And I don't think she ever had covid.

They say skaters don’t leave their water bottles unattended

 

[Imagine]

Yikes.


Look, I love the Russian ladies. They are pretty much the only reason I watch the sport, but I can definitely understand why such allegations exist...

 

[TontoK]

no one confirmed that she tested positive for doping. Maybe stop talking about it as a fait accompli?

In my post I made sure to include "based on the reporting that's been done" and "provided the reporting is accurate." I think that's disclaimer enough that I'm not relying on personal knowledge of events.

Whether or not it is a fait accompli... is not exaclty relevant when you're discussing news reports. The Russian press, quoting many Russian coaches and former athletes, seems pretty certain she tested positive. The focus in the reporting is trying to figure out how or why she tested positive... not disputing that she did.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

This post is appearing in the Forum in Russian. Could you please translate the posted portion into English? Thank you.

was originally in English. Random editing error.

 

[Ducky]

Like others have questioned here, I would like to know why if this result was found in December, was is it only coming to light now? Makes no sense to me at all whatsoever.

The paper, RBC News, reported it had a history of investigative journalism but it's now owned by a much more Kremlin friendly consortium. It's really hard to see why they would publish on a report like this unless they 100% knew it was true. That it's also been confirmed in Kommersant which is considered to be one of Russia's more trustworthy papers.

There a lot of reasons why it might only be coming to light right now and the first that comes to mind is fact checking to make sure whatever information RBC and Kommersant received was legitimate.

 

[Ali81]

It will be interesting to see how the IOC handles this . Their problems began with the leak of this information to the media .Now that the information about the alleged violation is out in the public domain , the IOC will need to expeditiously deal with the matter before it starts to fester and irredeemably damage the reputation of the event.
They will also need to be very definitive with their explanation of any sanction or lack thereof.If the event does goes on as normal and they don't provide a cast iron reasoning behind their decision other national organizations and the media will apply significant pressure and their is a risk of the whole event descending into a farce.

 

[Amei]

The paper, RBC News, reported it had a history of investigative journalism but it's now owned by a much more Kremlin friendly consortium. It's really hard to see why they would publish on a report like this unless they 100% knew it was true. That it's also been confirmed in Kommersant which is considered to be one of Russia's more trustworthy papers.

There a lot of reasons why it might only be coming to light right now and the first that comes to mind is fact checking to make sure whatever information RBC and Kommersant received was legitimate.

Well there is publicly coming to light and there is the affected parties knowing - why would the Fed put her in the team event if there was a questionable test

 

[4everchan]

so what does one do when a minor gets a positive test?
1) the minor needs to be suspended for a period of time
2) the adults need to be suspended for a much longer period of time
3) the adults need not to be training minors/responsible for minors

This is my opinion and I do think many now are trying to find excuses because of the emotional attachment related to the skater.
Golden Skate is a figure skating forum.. Fans come here to discuss how much they love the athletes and the sport !
There is a natural empathy given to the athletes here but we need to remind ourselves that the matter here is bigger than one athlete, or even figure skating.

Doping case of a 15 years old, in any circumstances is reprehensible and cannot be tolerated at all.

 

[LiamForeman]

Maybe. But considering the ROC is likely to appeal any unfavorable outcome, I doubt a final resolution will happen by then unless the IOC decides it should be a total acquittal since the accused is a minor. What will be awful is if Kamila wins the event and then is later disqualified. This needs to be resolved ASAP.

This is really my concern. Kamila will compete, blow out the silver medalist by 30 points, and then the silver medalist eventually is given her OGM where she didn't get to have her Olympic moment, and the world will just assume that Kamila being THAT MUCH better than anyone must be some evidence of doping.

What is so upsetting to me is that I cannot be the only skatefan who was blown away by her greatness four years ago when she was only 11. I picked her at age 11 to win the OGM and I can't be the only one. She was DESTINED for this moment and she was always THAT MUCH better than her competitors (maybe not all her results, but I could see how she would develop as a champion skater not just of her generation but of all time). So she would be the LAST skater I would give a banned substance to, because she didn't need it. And I also think that Eteri needs to be suspended from coaching for at least a year if all this comes out. I know people have been hard on her, and I've mainly just accepted her practices at Krystal, but this absolutely should come down hard on Eteri. Kamila is really just a child, a precocious child, but still a youngster controlled by adults. The adults should face the punishment. I read somewhere that Putin is even getting involved in this matter. . What a cluster.

 

[Decoder]

Some WADA statistics on the number of detected cases of doping:

2016:

2017:

2018:

and who should have been punished by the IOC based on these statistics? Italy, France, USA? No - only Russia. It was necessary to punish her as severely as possible in 2016 - and then in 2017 103 American, 128 French and 172 Italian athletes would never have taken doping. And so Russia remained unpunished - what else was left for these unfortunate people? Just dope.

Didn't know this before. Thx for sharing the data.

 

[ChiGal]

so what does one do when a minor gets a positive test?
1) the minor needs to be suspended for a period of time
2) the adults need to be suspended for a much longer period of time
3) the adults need not to be training minors/responsible for minors

This is my opinion and I do think many now are trying to find excuses because of the emotional attachment related to the skater.
Golden Skate is a figure skating forum.. Fans come here to discuss how much they love the athletes and the sport !
There is a natural empathy given to the athletes here but we need to remind ourselves that the matter here is bigger than one athlete, or even figure skating.

Doping case of a 15 years old, in any circumstances is reprehensible and cannot be tolerated at all.

Well said!! I have always thought that the ROC (or whatever they are calling themselves these days) should have been banned and the coaches permanently suspended from the sport. After 3 strikes, you would think that the IOC would learn. This just proves my personal opinion that Eteri and Company have single-handedly ruined the sport of figure skating, especially for the ladies.

 

[Plisskin]

Just give her a warning, let her compete and let’s put this overreaction behind us.

Always love our USA media members crawling out of the woodwork in situations like this, preaching with their holier than thou nonsense, fake outrage and outright lies.

Not everyone here is American, and can you and other pro Russian user's chill before this thread gets shut down? No one has really said anything insulting, there's no need to be combative and ultra nationalistic here. If you disagree with this being discussed at all, then take that up with the mods.