Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Amei]

So we agree.... both sides were behaving appropriately....

I would say both sides were within their rights to do what they did in the situation

 

[Mista Ekko]

So we agree.... both sides were behaving appropriately....

Good, does that mean we can erase the last 4 pages of this thread?

 

[skatedreamer]

I don't think it's fair to compare the number of posts on this thread with the number on the support thread. Many people have multiple posts on this thread (some have very many posts), where I expect most posters to post only once on the support thread.

Fair enough, but I did also point out that this thread has been up for much longer. I still hope that the support posts will increase. There are multiple posts from some people on the support thread as well.

 

[LoveSkater]

I would expect so. But with Rusfed you never know and with RUSADA acquitting Kamila, they might stick with that in the context of the RusNats title

RUSADA must follow the rules. Kamila's suspension was lifted, but she was not acquitted. Since RUSADA needs to maintain its reputation, it is likely that Kamila's result for the Russian Championship will be voided.

 

[flipsydoodle]

So there have been claims made that Valieva's tests are clean from before and after the positive sample on December 25. But if it took about 6-7 weeks for the Stockholm lab to get the results of the positive sample, how do we know if any samples taken after December 25 are indeed negative? Wouldn't it take just as long? And on the flipside, if they do have proof of negative test results from samples taken after December 25th, how did those get analyzed so fast compared to the positive sample? EEHHhh... my head is swirly.

Great point.

It's also irrelevant whether the before and after tests were clean. Lance Armstrong had hundreds of clean tests, yet he was a doper. Also, some substances can clear from your bloodstream quickly, so if something was ingested say, an hour after one sample was taken, it could be mostly gone in 12 hours, depending on the drug. So, it wouldn't appear on a test the next day. This is a common way to cheat.

If you take as an example: you get a bad headache; you take 2 ibuprofen; the headache goes away; the ibuprofen then clears your system within 5 hours or so; your headache comes back. So, you see, the medication can leave your system in a certain number of hours; then it would be undetectable. But you still benefitted from it, since your headache was gone for a few hours.

AFAIK alot about doping with banned substances has to do with timing. Random out-of-competition tests address this, but not entirely. Maybe someone else can speak to this, but IIRC elite athletes are required to inform their national drug agencies where they are at all times AND they have a standard availability hour, so the test would always take place in a specific window (e.g. 6 am - 7 am). If that was your test window, you'd take the banned drug at 7:05 am every day, and you'd likely take none around competition time.

I am NOT an expert, so someone can correct me on any of this. The track and field community discusses this kind of stuff ALOT.

 

[msteach3]

Brennan is as vile as journalists come and she doesn't hide it.

The why would the Russian Federation subject EGs daughter to this when they know damn well what's going to happen. Do they hate Eteri that much to have her daughter the emotionally distraught after her Olympic debut to talk with Brennan who is out to hurt them?

Brennan is not out to hurt Diana or anyone else. She's a journalist following up on all possible leads regarding the biggest story of these Olympic Games. There is a history of Russian doping, so of course that makes the story even more sensational than it would be if another country had an athlete in the same situation. They can't even fly their flag for this reason, remember? While I'm not necessarily condoning Brennan's continued questioning of Diana, I do believe she was just doing her job. This problem was created by Russians/Russian Fed in charge of Kami's overall training, whomever that might be. Those asking tough questions are not the villains here.

 

[NanaPat]

Fair enough, but I did also point out that this thread has been up for much longer. I still hope that the support posts will increase. There are multiple posts from some people on the support thread as well.

I should have started my post with "That's right. Also, ". I was giving another reason for the difference in the number of posts.

I just looked, and the most posts by a single poster on that thread is 8, and the vast majority of posters posted once only. On this thread, there is one poster pushing 100 posts and many, many with post counts in the double digits.

 

[Magill]

RUSADA must follow the rules. Kamila's suspension was lifted, but she was not acquitted. Since RUSADA needs to maintain its reputation, it is likely that Kamila's result for the Russian Championship will be voided.

I hope you're right about RUSADA. My only doubt is - if they care so much for their reputation, why did they lift the suspension in the first place?

 

[florin]

Eteri doesn't allow her skaters to drink water during competitions, so changing water bottles wouldn't work.

You're really funny and the funniest part is that you don't seem to be joking

You know that the competition goes on for several days - training, short program day, free program day, right? I hope you studied at school and remember the basics of human biology - for example, how much time a person can spend without water consumption You're funny

 

[flipsydoodle]

I think you're being overly strict with officials. Look, here's a scenario for you - one of the athletes at the Russian Championship performs a diversion against Kamila (for example, changes water bottles, or something else). This is not a very likely scenario, but everything happens in life. And now all this is like a terrible hammer blow to the head for everyone - the federation, the coaches, the athlete. And no "battle plans" are able to help you in any way.

Presumably, if only a trace amount showed in the pee after the competition, the dosing didn't happen during the competition, so potentially that could be ruled out. I suppose it's also possible that a scientist could determine from the sample how many hours before the test the drug was ingested.

 

[badknees]

The timing of all the tests most unfortunately really hurts Liza T. If the test of Dec. 25th had come back with speed then Kamila would most likely have been dq'ed from Russians and Liza would be at the Olympics. Or if it at least came back even a week before travel to the Olympics, Liza would have gone at that time.

This is just horrible for Liza. Makes me really mad.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I hope you're right about RUSADA. My only doubt is - if they care so much for their reputation, why did they lift the suspension in the first place?

That's a fair doubt to have, and now think of this:

If they decide to leave the Nationals result as it is, the only possible appeals to those podium positions
could on behalf of other girls from Eteri's group

 

[florin]

Presumably, if only a trace amount showed in the pee after the competition, the dosing didn't happen during the competition, so potentially that could be ruled out. I suppose it's also possible that a scientist could determine from the sample how many hours before the test the drug was ingested.

I guess it doesn't work that way. There are two parameters here - the initial concentration and the time elapsed since the substance entered the body.

 

[Magill]

That's a fair doubt to have, and now think of this:

If they decide to leave the Nationals result as it is, the only possible appeals to those podium positions
could on behalf of other students from Eteri's school

And they would probably never petition on behalf on one of their students against another...

 

[Amei]

I hope you're right about RUSADA. My only doubt is - if they care so much for their reputation, why did they lift the suspension in the first place?

@TontoK made a decent point about this, Rusada gets to claim at home that they did everything they could to save the team gold. This was my response:

Good point, RUSADA gets to say they did everything in their power to protect the gold medal in the Team event. But IMO they have done a major disservice to Valieva because its very likely, unless there is some extremely solid evidence from her defense team, they just delayed the inevitable and has probably made the situation much worse because this has became the story of the Olympics mainly because its not going to get resolved until either the day before or the day of the ladies SP. Had they upheld the ban and sent her home after her appeal it would have been like a 1 day thing in the news, but its dragging - I mean this is the majority of the questions in the IOC daily briefing. Additionally, looking from a big picture situation for Russia, the ban on Russia actually getting to attend events and hold events end in December of this year; if the international panel doesn't agree with RUSADA that Valieva's team presented a solid argument justifying overturning the suspension then this might impact that ban ending in December.

Rusada should have immediately invited CAS and/or the IOC/ISU to the table for the appeal and said we want this to be as transparent as possible that they are doing things appropriately now.

 

[brigit66]

In any case, even if Kamila accidentally took that pill and there is no punishment, Sasha is the Russian champion, and Anya - European, right? Just because of the presence of the banned substance, Kamila's blood

doesnt matter accidentally or not, she should be suspended

 

[Draculus]

For another thing, in my capacity as a volunteer at JGP Lake Placid, I had a brief interaction myself with Diana and Gleb (nothing like an interview at all).
I asked Diana a friendly question in English (a relatively simple question, IMO), but she did not attempt to respond.
IIRC, I tried asking a second time (again with a smile and a friendly tone), and she still did not respond.
Gleb was nearby, and he calmly/politely stepped in to give me the piece of information that I was requesting.
I got the impression that it is their modus operandi for him to speak in English on behalf of the partnership.

Diana is partly deaf, she relies partially on lip-reading to communicate.

 

[skatedreamer]

Brennan is not out to hurt Diana or anyone else. She's a journalist following up on all possible leads regarding the biggest story of these Olympic Games. There is a history of Russian doping, so of course that makes the story even more sensational than it would be if another country had an athlete in the same situation. They can't even fly their flag for this reason, remember? While I'm not necessarily condoning Brennan's continued questioning of Diana, I do believe she was just doing her job. This problem was created by Russians/Russian Fed in charge of Kami's overall training, whomever that might be. Those asking tough questions are not the villains here.

Brennan was doing her job but in this case IMO she did it very clumsily. (I'm trying to be polite about this.) She's knowledgeable enough about skating to be aware of DD's hearing issues and that Gleb usually answers in English for the pair. Her questions about DD's mother sounded downright mean.

I've appreciated much of Brennan's reporting in the past but she ain't getting any kudos from me for this one. And the ROC and other Russian authorities should be facing reporters, NOT the skaters.

 

[flipsydoodle]

What exactly is "plenty of times"? Hundreds? As many posters brought up before, we know the exact numbers are three per year for Nathan Chen. In what world would she be tested more often than him while being a junior for most of the time?

Snipped for focus

It would surely have to be more than 3x per year for Chen. He'd be tested after every competition, since he's always in the top 3? Test after short and long program? Then, there are out-of-competition tests. We know about those because Ina (forget her first name, but she was a US pairs skater), didn't make herself available for one. IIRC at that point, she quit skating; she'd had it! And then there was the random test for Kostner's boyfriend. So, yep, random tests, not just competition.

Also, some athletes are tested way more than others. This can happen if authorities are suspicious. If I can, I'll find exact numbers for Shelby Houlihan (track) in the last year before they caught her for nandrolone. Here's a broader number until I can round up the exact:

According to Greene, Houlihan has been tested approximately 100 times since 2016 and has never tested positive or missed a test in that time.

American record holder Shelby Houlihan receives four-year ban week before Olympic track trials

The 1500m and 5000m record holder received a four-year ban following a positive test for nandrolone, which she explained was the result of consuming pork.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[anonymoose_au]

Those asking tough questions are not the villains here.

That's no excuse for the way Christine questioned Diana, her tone and her mocking of her not knowing or being comfortable speaking English.

Is Christine too much of a coward to chase down Eteri and question HER? Eteri speaks very good English.

Diana also has hearing impairment, which makes it even harder for her.

And she must be pretty sick of being treated the way she is because of her mother. She is not her mother, she is not involved with the coaching of Kamila, she doesn't even skate in the same discipline.

Christine screwed up and she should be told she screwed up. Firmly. In English since it's the only language she knows.