Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[yume]

I hope Kamila will be sent home. Not just because it would be fair to other skaters but also because it will spare her years of harassement.

 

[silveruskate]

I only hope CAS does not allow Kamila to skate, as much as some of you might think she is just a minor and was doped by her parents or coaches, first we don't know for sure, she might be taking it herself with the help of doctor as improprobable as it sounds, but mainly and also as others have said, it would be unfair to other clean competitors that would get their opportunity for Gold stolen. I hope justice wins, and that Russia in general will get harsh punishment, since they have a history of doping and this is icing on the s... cake for them. They had a chance to compete with their athletes that weren't accused of doping and blew it.

I have an issue with this. Because with drugs that also can't be used out-of-competition how long until the athlete doesn't have an unfair advantage? Otherwise indefinite ban since there's always the lingering advantage. It is up for debate. If it's without her knowledge then what has happened to Kamila is child abuse. I don't like the idea of punishing her to prove a point to others.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

No idea if this is legit, but UK newspaper The Independent is apparently streaming live from the location of the hearing in Beijing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcnfYpw9nL8

 

[Ali81]

Djokovic Vs. Australia didn’t take as long

 

[millie]

The sample in question was taken by Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) at the 2022 Russian Figure Skating Championships in Saint Petersburg. This must mean that the TMZ in question was given to her just before the Russian Championships. If proven, will this gold medal be taken from her and will she lose her title?

 

[Scott512]

The CAS mobile panel meeting on Valieva's case has been going on for 4.5 hours. It can last all night​

Заседание выездной панели CAS по делу Валиевой длится уже 4,5 часа. Оно может затянуться на всю ночь

Заседание выездной панели CAS по делу допинга Валиевой длится уже 4,5 часа и может затянуться на всю ночь — новости Олимпиады 2022 в Пекине

www.sports.ru

Is this good news for Kamila? I would have thought if they were going to reinstate the suspension it would be right away like in the 1st hour or 2 and then Russia files their appeal or they accept the suspension and everything else gets figured out after that.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

No idea if this is legit, but UK newspaper The Independent is apparently streaming live from the location of the hearing in Beijing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcnfYpw9nL8

Like what wtf?

The chat is also very interesting, there is someone claiming "Elizaveta Tuktamysheva arrived today on the venue, she is already preparing for a replacement."

I don´t believe that.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

What is your evidence (science-based, peer reviewed) for these sentences? They look to me like they contain misinformation, but are stated as facts.

First of all, WADA placed trimetazidine in the same group as meldonium. That is, from the point of view of WADA, these are drugs similar in effect. Let me remind you that Sharapova took meldonium for about ten years. What do you think, is it possible to take a drug that can cause an immediate bright effect during such a long time?

But if you need some research - please:

The Antianginal Drug Trimetazidine Shifts Cardiac Energy Metabolism From Fatty Acid Oxidation to Glucose Oxidation by Inhibiting Mitochondrial Long-Chain 3-Ketoacyl Coenzyme A Thiolase

Abstract—Trimetazidine is a clinically effective antianginal agent that has no negative inotropic or vasodilator properties. Although it is thought to have direct cytoprotective actions on the myocar

www.ahajournals.org

And here is the second, this is a PDF file in Russian. Do not rush to just shout that all Russian research is a scam. The document is dated 2008, when there were no claims from WADA.

https://cardiovascular.elpub.ru › article › download


The main thing in this matter is the mechanism of action of trimetazidine. You can follow any of the links and see how it is formulated in medical terms. I can describe this mechanism more simply:

1) When the heart "gets tired" due to high loads or due to age, negative processes are triggered in it. As a result, "garbage" accumulates, a positive feedback is formed - and the heart tissues wear out even more significantly over time.
2) Trimetazidine blocks the chemical process that creates "garbage". As a result, the amount of this "garbage" decreases over time due to natural metabolism.
3) Freed from the influence of "garbage", the tissues of the heart are gradually restored. During the recovery process, it is required that the concentration of trimetazidine does not decrease.

I hope you understand that such a process requires a much longer time than the break between the short program and the FS.

I can tell you that only amphetamines or something even worse, such as microdoses of strychnine or cocaine, can actually be suitable for an immediate strong effect.

 

[volk]

The sample in question was taken by Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) at the 2022 Russian Figure Skating Championships in Saint Petersburg. This must mean that the TMZ in question was given to her just before the Russian Championships. If proven, will this gold medal be taken from her and will she lose her title?

It was found in trace amounts. So probably 'given' out of competition. Still she may lose both RN and EC gold medals.

 

[Mathman]

Honestly the X games type events are more popular than figure skating broadly.

Now there xeems to be a scandal brewing about biased judging in the snpwboard halfpipe competition.

 

[Amei]

=

Is this good news for Kamila? I would have thought if they were going to reinstate the suspension it would be right away like in the 1st hour or 2 and then Russia files their appeal or they accept the suspension and everything else gets figured out after that.

I don't think the hearing length is necessarily an indicator that things are going well or going bad; this is a big issue, the hearing going this long might just be indicative that they are giving it adequate attention.

 

[lariko]

Chuck, you do realize you're conversing with someone more loyal to this particular individual skater and/or federation than to the sport as whole, right?

You are never going to convince this person with logic or facts that conflict with the artificial fantasy-reality that's been constructed.

In the interest of facts, skaters do not leave skates and water bottles unattended, because of concerns for sabotage. Plus, to spike for ingestion so it will show up as a trace amount, that’s such a very long shot at successful execution that I can’t imagine it being performed accidentally by another skater. Trace amount detection has to always be verified against the Practical Quantification Limit and Method Detection Limit, because, again, the sensitivity of labs right now is beyond a non-specialist’s imagination.

If this is against the thread’s guidelines, I am sorry, but I just want people to understand at least a little bit the realities of modern analytics.

 

[NaVi]

Sharing the clip was extremely unusual; the I.O.C. and the Russian Olympic Committee are on opposing sides in the case. The video outlining an aspect of Russia’s defense in the hearing appeared to be the only one shared by the I.O.C. with members of the news media.

from a NY Times article:

This selective leaking -- if that's what it really is -- seems very odd. Hard to imagine why the IOC would do such a thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/12/sports/olympics-medals-winter?name=styln-beijing-winter-olympics&region=hub&block=storyline_live_updates_block_recirc&action=click&pgtype=LegacyCollection#kamila-valievas-cas-hearing-doping

It's could be shadow boxing. Except for WADA, the ISU and IOC could just be punting to CAS. They don't want to be seen as letting someone who tested positive of a banned substance compete but they also don't want to be the one who makes the decision on whether she competes or not.

 

[Scott512]

The CAS mobile panel meeting on Valieva's case has been going on for 4.5 hours. It can last all night​

Заседание выездной панели CAS по делу Валиевой длится уже 4,5 часа. Оно может затянуться на всю ночь

Заседание выездной панели CAS по делу допинга Валиевой длится уже 4,5 часа и может затянуться на всю ночь — новости Олимпиады 2022 в Пекине

www.sports.ru

Is this good news for Kamila? I would have thought if they were going to reinstate the suspension it would be right away like in the 1st hour or 2 and then Russia files their appeal or they accept the suspension and everything else gets figured out after that.

=


I don't think the hearing length is necessarily an indicator that things are going well or going bad; this is a big issue, the hearing going this long might just be indicative that they are giving it adequate attention.

If it's gone 4 and a 1/2 hours it could go 7 hours. How much legal credit will they give to that something could have happened to the sample in 6 weeks? A lawyer would make that case in a courtroom here in America and to be honest it would be hard to have that sample is the sample legitimized legitimized after 6 weeks and traveling to various cities.

 

[Charlotte 71]

Like what wtf?

The chat is also very interesting, there is someone claiming "Elizaveta Tuktamysheva arrived today on the venue, she is already preparing for a replacement."

I don´t believe that.

A few days ago, no alternate was allowed for Vincent because he had already skated in the team event. Wouldn't the same rule apply to Kamila?

 

[norwegianfairytale]

A few days ago, no alternate was allowed for Vincent because he had already skated in the team event. Wouldn't the same rule apply to Kamila?

Yeah, that´s what I thought also. Because both skated in the TE. Also there was something about that you can´t replace someone after the draw, and the starting order is already out with Kamila. So I don´t believe this is the case unless there is a loophole if someone get suspended.

 

[Draculus]

It's also your subjective opinion that a drug needs to also be harmful and not just performance enhancing to be illegal. I like the view that no performance enhancing drugs that aren't naturally found in food should definitely be banned. Different ways to look at it I would say.

You just renamed 'doping' with 'not natural', nothing else. Your definition does not help to answer the question is something 'doping' or not because instead you need to answer the question 'is it natural (in) food or not'? So you need to define what is 'natural' first. And this is even more vague term, this road leads to nowhere.

 

[Mista Ekko]

A few days ago, no alternate was allowed for Vincent because he had already skated in the team event. Wouldn't the same rule apply to Kamila?

Should.

But who knows what the hell will happen with this case, feels like uncharted territory.

 

[Magill]

=


I don't think the hearing length is necessarily an indicator that things are going well or going bad; this is a big issue, the hearing going this long might just be indicative that they are giving it adequate attention.

With so many institutions involved they might not even be past the initial statements yet

 

[beachmouse]

But on what grounds Eteri can be banned? If ppl follow 'dura Lex, sed Lex' in one part they shall follow it everywhere, so there should a reason. And twitter/another site opinion is not a legitimate ground.
I think there is nothing about 'coach is fully responsible for all doping violation made by a minor' in WADA code.

So how you can justify Eteri ban? Legally, not 'I wish for'?

From what is effectively an outlet for the IOC-

Valieva entourage investigation as coach defends "innocent and clean" athlete

The entourage of teenage figure skater Kamila Valieva are set to be investigated by the World Anti-Doping Agency following her positive drug test, as...

www.insidethegames.biz

Due to Valieva being a protected person under the World Anti-Doping Code, due to being under the age of 16, an investigation is automatically required into her support personnel.

The World Anti-Doping Code obliges an "investigation into whether Athlete Support Personnel or other Persons may have been involved in each case of doping, to ensure proper enforcement of Consequences, and to conduct an automatic investigation of Athlete Support Personnel in the case of any anti-doping rule violation involving a Protected Person or Athlete Support Person who has provided support to more than one Athlete found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation."